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About This Episode

David Boudia started his athletic career as a gymnast. Although he progressed quickly and showed potential, by age 11 he was already looking for something different. When a friend won diving lessons at an auction and invited him along, he didn’t expect that after just a few dives he would be hooked. It only took a few years before his Olympics dreams began to seem tangible in platform diving. He worked harder than ever before and, in every area of life, had goals to be the best, be known, and be favored.

At only 19, Boudia was bronze at the World Championships and made the 2008 Olympic team. He set the bar even higher for himself - he was fixated on gold. Unfortunately, he took 5th in synchronized diving and completely bombed his individual competition. He went home disillusioned with the whole experience. The Olympics hadn’t produced a medal, glory, or the fulfillment that he craved. He had dedicated every day for twelve years to that experience and came home empty handed and disheartened.

That fall he started at Purdue University and scoured his existence for something to fill the void inside. He chased popularity, partied excessively, and drank heavily, but none of it brought him peace of mind. After a year and a half, Boudia fell into such a deep depression that, at one point, he considered ending his own life. He turned to a friend who recommended approaching his coach, Adam Soldati and his wife, Kimiko. David went to them looking for tactics to beat depression and a clear strategy out of his current state, but instead, he was surprised that they expressed simply support for him at this stage. His self-destructive, self-centered behavior had, in his words, “brought me to the end of the pursuit of myself.” With their mentorship, he began a journey back to faith in God. He grew up “using” God for things he needed or wanted, but that he always placed himself at the center of his world. He began asking questions about his purpose: if life isn’t about my glory and always winning, then what is it about? As he reevaluated his priorities, sports started to take a back seat and almost seemed pointless. He considered quitting so that he could dedicate himself to serving others more practically, but realized, that his abilities could actually become a platform for him to share openly about how his faith saved him.

He went back to to the sport a changed person. “I wanted to be different around the pool deck,” shares Boudia. He continued training and competing, but viewed it as an arena to serve others, be a mentor, and have fun. The 2012 Olympic Games “were a roller coaster,” he tells Laura. “When you’re low, you have to learn to ride back up. And when you’re on top, you have to learn to stay grounded.” He won bronze in synchronized diving and went into the preliminaries for the individual event ranked second in the world. But he completely botched his dive and barely scraped through to the semi-finals, snagging the very last qualifying spot. He focused on his mental game, put his pride in check, and reminded himself that regardless of the outcome, he could walk away proud of his performance. With his perspective in line, content no matter the result, he stepped on to the platform and rose from last place to win gold in the individual event.

Despite the fact that his happiness no longer hinged on winning a medal, it was a dream come true. Keeping to his word, David used his victory to share his faith with others. He released a book entitled Greater Than Gold that chronicles his personal redemption as well as his professional one. Before the 2016 Olympics he got married and welcomed his first daughter, Dakoda. He learned to be a husband and a father while being a competitor and a mentor. Discovering passions and purpose in areas outside of diving brought him to Rio de Janiero feeling even more grounded, confident, and prepared. He walked away, proudly, with bronze and silver medals. After welcoming his second daughter, Boudia took some time off from the sport and worked in real estate. It didn’t take long for the itch of competition to return. Soon in to training, however, he experienced an accident on what he considered a comfortable, standard dive and was sent to the emergency room. He was forced to reevaluate the emotional and mental load he was carrying as he tried to be a husband, father, provider, and competitor.

In June of 2018, he chose to walk away from the 10m platform and focus on the 3m springboard. He hasn’t competed in this event since a short stint in 2014, but the shift has rejuvenated his love of the sport and heart to mentor younger teammates. The Boudia’s will welcome their third child in April of 2019 and he is excited to see his family and athletic aspirations grow at the same time. Regardless of how his 3m career compares to that of his years on the platform, David knows that he dives for God’s glory and not his own.

To keep up with David follow him on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

[/et_pb_text][et_pb_toggle admin_label="Transcript" title="Read Episode Transcript" _builder_version="3.19.18"]

Laura:

[00:00:06] Welcome to the hope sports podcast where each week we are chatting with elite athletes about their pursuit of purpose beyond their sport. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. This week I'm especially excited to have a fellow diver on the show here with us. I feel like I've watched David but I grow up in the sport as our careers overlapped. I competed alongside him in his first Olympic Games and then I interviewed him on the pool deck after his fourth Olympic medal. David is an incredibly decorated platform diver many would say he's already a legend and he's earned eleven Olympic and world medals in his career. But his journey isn't over and it hasn't always been easy. Today he opens up about his battle with depression. The mentors who helped him through it and the mental shift that got not only his career but his life back on track. If this conversation resonates with you and you're looking to dig deeper into exploring purpose and performance then I have a really great resource for you that I'll tell you more about after we hear from David. I'm so glad you're here. Now let's dive on it.

 

[00:01:04] Welcome David Boudia! I'm so excited to have another diving athlete onto the Hope Sports Podcast.

 

David:

[00:01:10] Hey Laura thanks for allowing me to be on it and I'm excited to jam with you.

 

Laura:

[00:01:15] I love your background by the way to a little Beijing Olympic poster there. Yeah. Now as we were on that team together so.

 

David:

[00:01:21] We were. We were.

 

Laura:

[00:01:23] Bringing back memories there. Well now not everyone in our audience is divers like we are. So give us a little bit of your background so we can be familiar with you because I know you didn't just start out in diving. So how is your sports beginning?

 

David:

[00:01:33] So sports beginning was more of the dream of going to the Olympics so 96 I wanted to watch. I was watching the Olympic Games. And that's something I wanted to do. So I was involved with a lot of different sports and gymnastics was a big one. So it kind of is what ignited the dream. That's the highest teaching me you can do in that sport morphed over time in 2000 or 2001 I began diving and from that point it was kind of a transition from gymnastics to diving. And now this dream can become a reality in this sport. After four years doing it.

 

Laura:

[00:02:16] Well how did you switch from gymnastics to diving? How'd that work out?

 

David:

[00:02:20] It was more of a burnt out in gymnastics so I went from 5 to 11 years old and did a lot of gymnastics and.

 

Laura:

[00:02:29] You're pretty good were you?

 

David:

[00:02:31] It wasn't bad. For 11 years old I don't know what's good what's bad. But I was able to I had body awareness I was acrobatic and I was progressing in those levels quickly. But it was just I did it too much and I was looking for something else. So actually one of my friends their parents bought diving lessons in an auction and they knew I was looking for something else. The friend said Hey why don't you come with me and join along and I started with one little trial and I I started doing it a little bit more and I fell in love with the sport.

 

Laura:

[00:03:04] Well that's cool. I love that. So just buy some lessons at an auction and you never know you might tear your dream there.

 

David:

[00:03:10] You don't. You never know.

 

Laura:

[00:03:12] That's cool. Well in your book which we're going to get to a little bit later but I just finished reading it so I'm very excited about that. You mentioned that you're a pretty active child and a pretty mischievous child. So I want to give your parents Sheila and Jim a big hug next time I see them. But what were you. Were you the instigator of all this trouble?

 

David:

[00:03:30] Well first I can't tell you how many times I've apologized to my parents. Like Man Mom Dad I'm so sorry. You know it's funny I have a 4year old little girl named Koda. And I can see like glimpses of me and then I'm like trying to shut down like assassinate and sort the end it. But God bless my parents. But I don't know it was kind of a friend group and so everyone played off of each other and. You know the human nature at heart is corrupt. And so. I didn't know God at that time. And when I was growing up this was something my friends did. This is something that I thought was normal and I enjoyed it. So I think Cindy's is fun in the season right. But at that time that was everything that I live for. I wanted to be that popular guy I wanted to be good looking and I wanted everyone to think that I had it all together. So to do that I would give in to peer pressure I put peer pressure on somebody else. And it turned out to you know there weren't total train wrecks but there were just little pieces that turned into some destructiveness later on life.

 

Laura:

[00:04:41] Gotcha! Gotcha! Well, I remember you as a little rug rat back in the 2004 Olympic trials. And then at the 2005 world championships. Because I was too at the end of my career and you were just kind of coming on the scene. But by 2008 I mean you were 19. You were you know you're kind of getting it together. You won a World Cup bronze medal earlier that year and then you made that Olympic team. So kind of take me through what that experience was like? Because I thought you were kind of you know an outside you’re a young guy but I thought you were an outside shot at a medal for us. So kind of take us through your very first Olympic experience.

 

David:

[00:05:15] Yeah. So it kind of more so I guess like you said in 2004 that was kind of the maybe ignition to this dream could become reality get to the games. And there was no pressure at that trials because there was no expectation of myself from anybody including myself. But I merge onto the scene international scene in 2005 and then it kind of took off there. And I looked back and every single year leading up to those 2008 Games I progressively started to work harder. I progressively started to look at my mental game as something that was crucial. And started to see progress and competition and finally got to the 2008 Games. And this was a possibility to medal so why am I shooting so low on just trying to make the Olympic games why don't I shoot to possibly winning an Olympic medal. And at the Games it came close and synchronized I was fifth with my senior partner Thomas Nelson like 10 points from Silver. Maybe 3-5 points from bronze and it tastes good. I loved it. I craved it and so I was hopeful glowing in individuals and then individual I just was a total bust.

 

[00:06:27] So finished and did not perform anywhere close to my ability and I think that's what looking back after those games I think that's why I went bankrupt with a couple of things. I didn't live up to what my potential was so I did not reach the greatest attention but I knew I could. And a second I bought into the lie of this is going to fulfill me on every single level of who I am. So I have success at the Olympic Games. That's going to bring everything that I've ever wanted in life. That pursuit of happiness is going to be built.

 

Laura:

[00:07:00] Well so I guess yeah. And from there I mean you went to Purdue you started going University at Purdue and I guess that carried into a kind of a sound like a bit of a depression. And like a lack of purpose like kind of walk us through that. So you didn't realize all those dreams like what is that like walking that out?

 

David:

[00:07:18] It's kind of like what you said it led to depression. And I think it's very common with the Olympic athletes. I don't know if it's spoken about enough and people are aware of it. But you get off of this high roller coaster where you're exalted above everything else. Where you are the man or the woman in that particular week of the Olympic Games. And it's something that you crave it's what you want more after we came home from the games just kind of like that door shut. And I looked around like that was it? Everything that I've wanted from my 7years old to 19 when I made my personal big gains was evolved around this experience of the Olympic Games. And once I walked through at those kinds of an eye-opener. No this can't. This can't be right. This can't be where the purpose is found. And so I left with a mouthful of sand with the hope that it would bring me something better. But that's what it left me went into my college trying to just push this side like oh that’s no big deal I got another 4 years. And went hard on the college scene trying to make friends. Trying to be the popular guy again and heavily drinking. And just these little things that I thought would fulfill me and they did for a while. Until it was just wasn't satisfying anymore. So it led to some deep depression and I could not have been at a better place to go through depression than that Purdue University.

 

Laura:

[00:08:50] Why is that?

 

David:

[00:08:51] There's a particular coach here name Adam Soldati and his wife Kimiko Soldati. And at the time I think I would mock Christianity. For me, my religious background is kind of like I need something God so I'm coming to you and I want you to give it to me now. And I'll do some good things that are on the side. And then when things are going well I'm going to put you back up on the shelf. And so I was trying to play God and started to realize like this wasn't working. And Adam Kimiko who Adam is my coach just lived something differently and it was enticing. I looked at his life. I looked at their life and it wasn't like they had it all together. It was they have something different that I don’t have. And eventually after a year of college at Purdue University I started to fall deep into depression to the point of wanting to commit suicide. And you think of that like that's crazy. You went throughout the games you've had so many accomplishments you have a family that loves you and affirms you and encourages you. Like how did you get to that point? And think when you bowed down to something that is never gonna fulfill you eternally it leaves you bankrupt leaves you without a purpose. And so the thought freaked me out. I immediately contacted another diver that I saw that same change in and she recommended that I speak to Adam.

 

[00:10:20] The next day I went over to Soldatis and it was kind of this going into like ah this is gonna be great. They're gonna give me this like quick fix that's gonna get this go get it, David. That pursued this first Olympic Games back up on its feet. And things are gonna be great and they did the total opposite. They were talking about how they were super encouraged and excited that I was at this point in my life and I'd like you are absurd. I'm depressed. I'm miserable. Nothing. I think my life is going the way that I wanted to. And you're saying that you're excited that I'm in at this point my life. And looking back at it now I would say that to anybody on that point because you're coming to the pursuit or the end of the pursuit of yourself. And from that point, they began to teach me what my purpose was what. I was created for. And it was kind of just eye-opening. I grew up in the church but it was like something I haven't heard before because my eyes are blind. My ears were plugged and that was just not something that quite frankly I wanted to hear because things were going well. After that, I started to investigate this myself and I started to see the Bible for what it was. Evidence of who God was and his promise and love story of Jesus. And since 2009 my life has been completely changed from who I was at 19.

 

Laura:

[00:11:53] Oh that's so beautiful. And I have to say just knowing Kimiko and personally Kimiko used to be a teammate of mine. And she's actually the matron of honor and my wedding and Adam coached alongside my coach Kenny Armstrong. So I love them dearly and it's not surprising to me at all that they did that. But I loved hearing it from your side and getting the full story is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. So what happened after that? I mean you kept diving and you're going for another Olympics like was your head in a totally different place? Well, I mean what was that like? I mean things must have changed.

 

David:

[00:12:25] It's interesting that once I came to know who Christ was and accepted him into our lives and just acknowledge that. I'm living a life that's only centered around David. Recognizing my rebellion against him. Recognizing that he came to take that place so that I can have a union relationship with God. It looked completely different. So I was like I was learning life again. And initially when I found the purpose of my purpose is to pursue God and to love him. And through that I'm able to look at others and how I can serve and love them and so that was foreign to me. It was almost meaningless. My sport was almost meaningless. I remember going into practice just after this conversion or my new life of in Christ started and I was like What's this? This is pointless. Like what am I. Why am I diving? Why. I need to be doing something else for the gospel for Jesus and.

 

Laura:

[00:13:21] It’s like a complete 180.

 

David:

[00:13:23] It was. And it was interesting. It was David as a baby again. And I had to learn how to live life. I had to learn how to reorganize my thoughts that wasn't centered around what David was syncing but it was centered around what God was syncing. And we can do that through his word in the Bible but. So it was a big transition. It was a lot of sitting down with Adam and Kimiko who just mentored me through that disciple me through it. So going into kind of that first year was a whirlwind of how do I function. How do I live a life that's pleasing to God? I'm not saying I've figured it out but I've started to learn just different attributes of God and what God sees as pleasing. And so that morphed into I can use my sport as a platform to show his glory. And that's not to say God's going to let me win. I very well think that God is able to put you in a position to win in order that he can get the glory. But just my contentment level was different. I had more of peace. I wasn't anxious all the time. But I started to see that diving can be used as a position where I can promote the name of Christ. And just be different around the pool deck. In that perspective change was dramatically different in 2008 and I think really it just changed my whole experience in 2012.

 

Laura:

[00:14:53] Well so tell us about 2012. I mean you have this kind of second chance you're like a new person. But it didn't exactly start off. I don't think the way you were planning or expecting.

 

David:

[00:15:04] Yeah. So 2012 was I think every Olympics and I think you can attest to this. Every Olympics or every big experience is a rollercoaster. And something I learned in 2008 is he had to learn how to ride that rollercoaster. So just like life just like the Olympic Games. It's it's a rollercoaster and learning how to when you're down low how to ride that backup. But when you're on that high how do you stay grounded. But having the experience from 2008 I went into the 2012 games the best shape of my entire life diving the best that I've ever dove before. And just the perspective that I've changed and so I was hopeful going into those games. And right off the bat Nick McCroryand I my secret partner we won bronze. So I won my first Olympic medal ever and was ecstatic. I was over the moon and then it was this flip of a switch like all right I got one more event to let's keep this going. Went into the prelims ranked second in the world going into the Olympic Games. One of the prelims and totally that just barely made it 18th place going in the semifinals. But I live to fight another day.

 

Laura:

[00:16:15] And only 18 people make it in the semis too. See you were the last spot to make it into the next round.

 

David:

[00:16:20] The last qualifying spot. But I. Honest I look back on that I like man that's that's a tremendous amount of grace. Because at that moment God is allowing me to fight again tomorrow to see what else I can accomplish for his kingdom. But also to he was it was kind of like a wakeup call. Like I wanted this prelims kind of with this old David thinking in 2008 like I'm just going to dominate. I'm going to obliterate my competition and I had this narrow focus of this is David's path this is everything he's ever wanted let's get in there and accomplish it and he shook me up. He made me realize that I was going into this sort of thinking and I'm super thankful that it happened. I don't want to walk through it again. But it was a wakeup call that I needed. But going into the next day it with that perspective change I kind of just got in the rhythm. I worked with Adam a lot on just what my thinking looked like. You know I think a lot of times it's easy to get into competition the more It's easy to get in the thick of life. And starting to listen to what your mind is saying to yourself. And that's a scary place to be when you start listening to what your thoughts are saying. To the sense of if you start listening then you're going to live by how you feel all the time.

 

[00:17:40] And one of the things I had a start to do is combat that instead of listening I need to talk to myself I need to speak the truth and the lies that I'm believing constantly both in competition and outside of the pool. But I took my thoughts captive and went on a path where you know at the end of this it was interesting a really good friend pastor at our church and disciple me a little bit. He put it in great perspective. I was extremely nervous going into the finals and he like David what is there to worry about. And I was like what do you mean? I'm going in front of millions of people diving in the biggest competition that I will ever dive in and you're asking me what is there to worry about. He was like well God's already walked through this year he knows the end of this chapter. This particular event what you get to do is go into this Olympic final and be a vehicle for his glory. And it was like man it's something so simple and so small but it was just a huge wisdom bomb that I held on to. And I think because of that encouragement along with Adam and his perspective changed from the day before. You know if it turned out great.

 

Laura:

[00:18:54] I would say so.

 

David:

[00:18:55] That's not going to happen every time. But I'm thankful to be sitting here being named as an Olympic champion. Something that you can attest to as well.

 

Laura:

[00:19:04] Well and I love it. I got a chance to sit there and watch you. I was in London with NBC and I kind of snuck into the event. Was sitting behind the booth watching and it was very cool. And I love hearing the story behind it now. But just seeing it in action it reminded me a lot of when I was in Sydney at my first Olympics when I went to. But it was just cool to watch somebody else walk that out and now know the story behind it. It’s just so beautiful. I just appreciate you opening up and sharing all that with us.

 

David:

[00:19:32] It's an incredible moment that I'll get to cherish for the rest of my life.

 

Laura:

[00:19:36] It's so cool. So tell us about your book Greater Than Gold From Olympic: Heartbreak To Ultimate Redemption. Because I just got done reading it and it's awesome and I want people to know about it.

 

David:

[00:19:45] So the book came out right before the 2016 games. It's exactly what it says in the titles. It illustrates my life some of the heartbreak to the ultimate redemption of not Earthly redemption but eternal redemption. So I look at this book as a tool to be able to share and be vulnerable with my life for who I was. And how drastically and how alive God's Word and His gospel can move someone's life. From someone who is dead and living only for himself and Dowling down to idols other than God. And showing what that looks like with all these bumps in the road and coming out still with hope and still with peace. Still with contentment and all these things that are super sweet gifts from God. When you live for him and live for your purpose by him.

 

Laura:

[00:20:44] Yes that's great. And it's not the whole story to me. You do talk a lot about your relationship with Sonnie your wife now. And that kind of happened between London and Rio you married Sonnie and you have sweet little Dakoda. And so I'm guessing going into Rio which is not in your book because this came out before Rio. But I'm guessing that Rio was a little bit different experience. Your third games I mean each one of your games seems like a totally separate experience. So what was Rio like compared to London?

 

David:

[00:21:12] Like you said totally different. So 2008 I was just David solo and only had a.

 

Laura:

[00:21:18] David solo that has a nice ring to it.

 

David:

[00:21:21] Yeah. In 2012 I was now engaged to my soon to be wife Sonnie in 2016. Fast forward 4years I'm now married for 4years and have a 2year old daughter. So you can live or attest to this as well where the all experience is different when you have that different life-changing stages. But I would say 2016 was a huge learning curve. I was learning how to be married. You see marriage on Hallmark cards or Hollywood movies that's just complete bliss. Amazingness. And Sonnie would sit next to me and say the first six to eight months was not last. You put two people in the same house together and with all their baggage and there's conflict. So we had to learn how to live life together and realize. I'll tell you just a little wisdom nugget that I've started to learn through a man named Paul “Triple H”. I started to believe what he said when he said I'm the biggest problem in my relationship. When I started to actually live by that I started to see like you know Sonnie's problem is huge but it's not as big as mine. And so kind of the principal Matthew 7 talks about take the speck. Don't take the speck out of your spouses or that your friend's eye. Why don’t you look at the log in your own eye? But you know.

 

[00:22:50] Anyways. It was a learning experience. I had a daughter named Dakoda. And again just a learning experience so we had to learn how to do life as a married couple as a family as mom and dad. And I look at the 2016 Games and honestly I look at it and I'm like I think I'm way more prepared than any of my competitors going into this game. They're worried about training. I'm worried about training but also how to be married and how to change a diaper and be exhausted with having a newborn. So I go into these 2016 games like fired up like this is exciting for me. Again I'm in the best shape even better than I was in London. Dives everything but one dive is going extremely well. And I was fired up and I grew my walk with God a little more had some more wisdom. And going into those games I look back and it's I would. There's not a lot of things I would relive in my life but going into the 2016 Games I would relive.

 

Laura:

[00:24:01] That’s cool. That's why you came away with a bronze and a silver medal from Rio which is awesome. You've got four Olympic medals. That is just awesome. You became our diving legend. Now after Rio you took some time off deciding whether you're going to retire or move on. I know you got a real estate a little bit. You had a second daughter but ultimately you decided that you were coming back. But in this past February, you took a pretty bad crash. Can you tell us kind of what happened here? And I know that kind of has changed the whole focus of your story going forward. So please tell us about that.

 

David:

[00:24:36] So we introduced our second daughter Mila into the world just after those 2016 games. And initially I was done and I just started getting this itch and wanting to go back into the sport. And so I sat on that for a while about six months and decided all right this is what we should pursue again after a lot of counsel from the circle that's around me. And then I started getting back into full time on the platform. At the same time, I was doing real estate carrying a heavy load with a lot of clients which I wasn't expecting. I was expecting to kind of dabble around have a slow start into it. And it took off in February 2018.

 

Laura:

[00:25:14] It’s a good problem.

 

David:

[00:25:16] It is. It was. But February of this year in 2018 I went up to the platform was doing my stable dive. The dive that I was the best at. The dive I felt most comfortable with. And a dive that I depended on the competition because I knew that it could bring me back into contention to be top three took off. Normally I see three things and that's one spot, two spots, three spots? This one it was like I saw the world spinning on his axis like everything was spinning fast missed spots and landed. First on my face and then the rest on my stomach went to the ER afterward to make sure everything was OK and most of the pain was not on my head. So I took a couple of days when I realized you know my face is pretty bruised but I kind of shrugged it off. I took about a week off and went back into the sport. But looking back on that there was a lot of different variables with it. I was carrying a heavy load with working with 14 clients in real estate.

 

[00:26:25] I was trying to juggle being a husband and a father of two girls. I was trying to get into the sport again. And on top of that, I was sick. So I had this cloud a sinus infection and you know this thing happened. All those came together and it gave me a good wakeup call. So just like I said there are little things in your life that they don't seem great at the time but they are kind of that cliché a blessing in disguise. Because it started to show me that you know this one I'm going into the sport kind of with that mentality in 2008. And also to you know maybe my platform career is done. And it wasn't until June after this a hard few months of dealing with kind of blackouts or dizziness that it wasn't till June that we decided to switch to springboard and pursue that for the next two years.

 

Laura:

[00:27:20] And so what is that? What is switching to the springboard done for you?

 

David:

[00:27:23] So going from 10meter platform to three industry on board it's how do I explain this. I've explained it this way before where most of your life you drive kind of a small door like super tiny car. And you go to driving a huge diesel truck. So you still know how to drive right? But it's different. You're driving a big diesel truck that's just you know the mechanics of driving but it just feels different. Springboards exact same way where I'm trying to learn the mechanics of riding a springboard and getting a launch after this moving object. And I wouldn't change it for the whole world. I think it's kind of rejuvenated my love for the sport. It's also rejuvenated my desire to want to love my teammates. And just joy comes through it. So I go into practice excited not just because I get to diet but also because I get to be around 18-22year olds. That hopefully I can influence but also just come alongside and encourage. And you know since June I don't think I've ever had this much fun in the sport. And I don't think I've ever had this much enjoy coming out of it with the relationships that I'm building with the pretty divers. And then you know in return that goes back to my family life at home. I'm enjoying being a husband to my wife and I'm enjoying being a dad to my two little girls.

 

Laura:

[00:28:51] That's awesome. I love how sometimes those unexpected shifts that you don’t want to walk through but sometimes it changes everything to a much more beautiful path. Yeah. That's really cool. So what's coming up next for you? A couple of things I think.

 

David:

[00:29:05] Yeah. So there's a couple of things coming up. I leave for a national championship and that's mid-December in Atlanta. So I have my expectations obviously going in but we're training hard for that and I'm excited. This is the first nationals on 3 meters springboard that I've done and then launching in.

 

Laura:

[00:29:23] And how long? When's the last time you did 3 meters nationals?

 

David:

[00:29:25] So 2014. And I was a full thing. So not sure why I was up there but I did. I dabble in it but it kind of launches into the 2019 season. And hopefully, we will see some improvement for where we are now and set USA up to some success in Tokyo. But I think even more than that. My wife and I won't reduce our first trial in April or first. Our third child.

 

Laura:

[00:29:57] Lemme count how one, two, three!

 

David:

[00:30:00] How can I forget that but.

 

Laura:

[00:30:03] Well you have two young children at home already. So your brain doesn't work quite the same way all the time.

 

David:

[00:30:07] I know. What's funny is we did a kind of a dry run of competition so I got up and had to be at court 6:30 am. And talk about inviting adversity or having adversity be your best friend. I had a wake up call from our 4year old at 2 a.m. I had a wake-up call from our 1year old at 4:45. And so I would have to change it because what if this happens on the game day you know. And so it was I looked back at adversity and I was like Let's do this.

 

Laura:

[00:30:37] That's awesome.

 

David:

[00:30:37] And so now we get to throw in the third hole again in April of 2019.

 

Laura:

[00:30:42] Well keep the fun come in right?

 

David:

[00:30:44] Yes absolutely.

 

Laura:

[00:30:46] So David you you are so awesome and inspiring. I love your story. Where can we follow all of your diving and family ventures online and grab a copy of Greater Than Gold?

 

David:

[00:30:55] Yeah. So I think the easiest way to grab a copy of Greater Than Gold is on Amazon. I actually don't know the current price. It's not very expensive. You can get it on Kindle and it's even cheaper. As far as following what the guys are up to. Probably the most updated one is our Instagram my Instagram. On Twitter on this and on Facebook. But it's all the same name though @davidboudia. So you can find us there and see what our crazy 4year old and 1year old are doing.

 

Laura:

[00:31:24] Perfect. David thank you so much for being on and good luck with this next run through 2020.

 

David:

[00:31:29] It has been an honor. Thank you, Laura.

 

Laura:

[00:31:32] I'm super grateful to David for being so open and sharing his journey with us. It was so interesting to hear how his mindset was different in each Olympic Games. And how that determined not only his performance but also his acceptance of the outcome. We've heard from many athletes about how when they think their entire identity. On one experience or one victory they always walked away dissatisfied even when they won. For David his first Olympic experience the culmination of 12 years of dreaming and dedication sent him spiraling in search of a true purpose. But how encouraging that there are coaches like Adam Soldati out there who care deeply about their athletes to help them navigate those difficult seasons. I love that.

 

[00:32:11] Hey guys! I wanted to let you know about something coming up in the next few weeks that I have been working like crazy on and I'm super excited about. Have you ever been anxious going into a competition or felt like you won the warm-up but not the meat? Or maybe you just don't understand why you don't perform when it counts but you do in practice. Is that sounds like you? Then Listen up. I've designed an online course that is just for you. I'll teach you the most crucial mental skills that I've acquired over my 20 plus years as an elite athlete. I'll walk you step by step through the process that will help you optimize your performance and set you up for success. If you're ready for change and you want the skills to take your performance to the next level then I want you to head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance and sign up so you'll be the first to know when this course is available. And when you sign up. I'm going to send you my list of the five things that you can do today to become a more confident competitor. So head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance.

 

[00:33:09] Next week we have 7time Olympic medalist swimmer Dana Vollmer on the show with us. With her optimism and aspirations, it's no surprise that she swam through a life-threatening heart condition. Falling short of making the Olympic team mid-career and becoming a mother to two beautiful boys. She's been through it all and she's not done yet. So make sure to join us next week to hear her full story. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen so that you don't miss a single episode. And remember to leave us a review because that helps us to keep bringing these awesome guests on the show. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and access the complete archives please visit Hopesports.org

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About This Episode

Like many, Ingrid Drexel grew up playing all different kinds of sports. From basketball to volleyball, she loved being active and her parents encouraged extracurricular activities that would help her learn about teamwork and perseverance. But it wasn’t until she first got on a bike that Ingrid came to understand true freedom. In this episode of the Hope Sports show, she shares that she would pedal around town and through the mountains, fully immersed in nature and overwhelmed with the liberty to go anywhere in her hometown of Monterrey, Mexico. It’s this sense of freedom that made her fall in love with the sport, and rediscovering that joy would be critical to bringing her back through moments when she considered abandoning her dreams.

It was after a cycling camp that a coach approached her parents and encouraged them to invest in Ingrid’s obvious natural abilities. With a better bike and a list of races, her family began road-tripping around Mexico. She started winning race after race after race and at only 14, she was invited to be a part of the Junior National Team and compete in the Pan American games - a spot normally only available to someone over the age of 17. She spent her teen years balancing a budding cycling career and her desire to be a “normal” teenager. She even took three months off of racing completely to attend all of the sleepovers, school dances, and parties that she wanted to, but found it all unfulfilling in the end. Traveling around the nation had matured her and she had dreams of cycling internationally, getting a degree, and taking advantage of the unique opportunity before her. Back on the bike, she picked up where she left off and her success landed her Mexico’s only spot in road cycling for the London Olympic games.

Ingrid was in awe of the entire experience at her first Olympics. From being honored at the President’s house in Mexico, to traveling with other Olympians from her nation, to the enormity of the athlete village at the games, the experience was almost overwhelming. Having been pulled from the junior circuit to compete, she didn’t even know her own rivals, most of whom competed professionally. As a solo rider for her country she tried not to be intimidated by the nations with full teams, but when she pulled up to the starting line for her race and it began to rain, she realized that her real rival would be Mother Nature. Having done the majority of her training and racing in Mexico, Ingrid had never once ridden in the rain, much less raced. She was able to stay with the Peloton in the early section of the race but was taken down with another twenty riders when someone else crashed on a tight turn. Determined to represent her nation and finish the race, Ingrid dug her bike from the disorder of spokes and wheels. When the snow turned to hail and the verbal discouragement from other riders weighed heavy on her, still she pedaled on. She finished the race frozen, exhausted, and outside of the time limit, but still proud to have represented her nation even if she had to do it alone.

Not long after the Olympics offers came in from professional teams and Ingrid signed with her first European team. The learning curve was steep, though. A new continent, unfamiliar language, different coaching style, and increased race distance all left her feeling defeated and lonely. She was used to competing in 20 races each year and upped that number to 30 races in just three months. She pushed herself harder mentally and physically than she ever had before, but the results just weren’t there. In fact, the more she demanded of her body the less it seemed to perform and the more discouraged she became. Comments from her coaches about losing weight spurred her to develop an eating disorder and, at one point, she didn’t even have the strength to complete races. Negativity was an internal refrain that followed her on and off the course, in training, and throughout her personal life. Despite feeling she would be perceived as weak, Ingrid finally reached out to a sports psychologist and a nutritionist. With their help, she began what would be a one and a half year journey back to herself. She realized that she needed to listen to her body and fuel it properly. She began validating rest and relaxation. And, most importantly, she faced the negative self-talk that had been crippling her performance all along. The judgment and pressure she carried from herself and others could never be overcome with more extreme training or improved performance - it had to come from acceptance of who she was apart from cycling.

As her recovery gained momentum, so did her career. Her hard work paid off when her international ranking again earned Mexico one spot at the Olympics in Rio de Janeiro. But just because she won the spot for her nation did not mean her name was attached to it. In a surprising move, the Mexican Olympic Committee decided to wager the spot on the results of just one race. Unfortunately for Ingrid, in that very race she experienced a technical failure with her bike and ended up changing bikes three times before finishing in fifth place and losing her the Olympic seat. To further the blow, the Committee didn’t even honor their commitment to the athlete who won and gave the spot to an entirely different rider. Frustrated and disheartened, Ingrid returned home and left her bike in its box, unsure when, if ever, she’d get back on it.

Despite losing the bid to the Olympics, calls came in one after another for her to join other professional teams. “I just decided that I was going to do what I loved just because I loved it, not because people were expecting something from me,” Ingrid shares to Laura on the show. She signed with an American team in California and 2017 turned into her most successful year. Rather than placing all of her worth and value on her performance as a cyclist, Ingrid poured into other areas of her life. She finished her degree in International Business, found younger athletes to mentor, and got married. She still has hopes to compete in the 2020 Olympics, but recognizes that she can only do her best. Rather than being dispirited that the decision it is out of her hands, she knows, “being an Olympian doesn’t define who I am.” She now rides for herself, for the fun of it, and for the sense of freedom that she experienced all those years ago.

For more about Ingrid, follow her on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

 

[/et_pb_text][et_pb_toggle admin_label="Transcript" title="Read Episode Transcript" _builder_version="3.19.14" saved_tabs="all"]

laura:

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast where high caliber athletes share about their triumphs and their struggles on their journey toward purpose. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. Today we're speaking with Ingrid Drexel a professional cyclist from Mexico. Like many of us, Ingrid hopped on a bike as a young kid and found herself inspired by the freedom she felt zipping around town with the wind in her hair. As her love of cycling grew so did her opportunities. And she's been traveling around the world competing internationally for eight years now. Her story includes victories disappointments and challenges. And she shares it all with us here on today's show. Thanks for joining us. Here we go.

 

[00:00:44] Ingrid Drexel I'm so excited you could join us for the Hope Sports Podcast today!

 

Ingrid:

[00:00:48] Thank you Laura. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be able to have a chance to share some of my story with the people there are hearing of. And yeah. Thank you.

 

Laura:

[00:01:00] for those listening that may not be familiar with your story. How did you kind of get started into sports like how did it all begin?

 

Ingrid:

[00:01:07] So first of all my family like my parents were always the kind of parents that wanted us to do something like extracurricular activities besides school. They wanted to keep us like active during the day. Nothing like it was not like you must do these or you have to do this. It was mostly like just a start. Like for me you know forming us as a kid. And so they just wanted us to do any activities. And so we chose like why we wanted to do so before finding that cycling was my passion. I did like I don't know really like a different sports because I went into one.

 

Laura:

[00:01:45] Oh really?

 

Ingrid:

[00:01:46] Yeah. I went into one and I was like No mom I don't like this and she was like okay just another thing you know. So I jumped from one sport to another I did like tennis, swimming, ballet, basket and I'm tall. So they want me to be on the basketball team because of my height but I just didn't like it. I just think with large balls and stuff. So no. And then I did taekwondo for a long time actually. I liked it but then there was this summer a friend called me and she was like Hey there's a summer camp cycling summer camp. Like do you want to join? And I'm like yeah sure. And I was 8 at the time so I don't know I just discovered that that's what I liked. And like I guess the adrenaline of being on the bike and the sensation and the freedom and like the wind in your skin. I don't know I just liked it and I stuck to it ever since.

 

Laura:

[00:02:41] Well so is it like cycling what you see at the Olympic or the big tour levels right from the beginning or was it different when you were younger?

 

Ingrid:

[00:02:48] No. I think it was really different I don't think that I knew about all of that when I was 8. Like I just liked the idea and I know how to call it but just the way I felt being on the bike and like riding on the parks and like true then nature and like the mountains or whatever. I know it was pretty cool and then I went there with some friends so it was also like good company and stuff. So yeah. I think I didn't even know about the Grand Tours and like even you could be a professional cyclist like No I've never thought about that. And yeah. I just like it. Like I was just enjoying and yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:03:33] Well so how did that kind of developed then because you made the Olympic team in 2012 as a teenager. So you saying that maybe wasn't on the radar like at what point I guess did that becomes something on the radar?

 

Ingrid:

[00:03:45] Yeah. It was totally off the radar. I started the summer camp man the coach of the summer camp he talked to my parents and he was like I think Ingrid has potential. Like she wouldn't likes it she's really passionate about it and she's good. So I started mountain biking and then he encouraged my parents to buy me a road bike. So then I got a road bike and I started doing both disciplines. And like the next year, I started competing nationwide. And I don't know I just started winning everything I went to. Like it was just like from day one I just like I won every race and. But I just did it because I liked it. Like I didn't have any pressure from anyone. I just enjoy it like getting out there and suffering and giving it my all like yeah. It was kind of cool I guess. And then you started to travel along Mexico with my parents so it kind of became like a family road trip like going to races and stuff. I just did it kind of like a hobby I think. And when I was 14 I got called to be on the national team as a junior. But to be a junior in cycling you have to be 17 years. And I was 14. So that was like whoa! So yeah. Then they called me and I went to my first American championship. Is it like for the junior category. And I got two medals and I guess it all started developing from there.

 

[00:05:12] Things started to get more serious and then it was a really hard age for me because I was like during 15 and you know you're in school and you're with your friends and the parties and sleepovers and blah blah blah. Then you also got a commitment like OK you get a drink. Now you're representing Mexico and not only doing it like local races or national races. In Mexico we're really used to celebrating our 15 birthday. I know in the Americas the Sweet 16. But for us is 15. So it was that age all of my friends started traveling and having all of these 15 birthday parties in and I had to like compete and be out for the weekend and like train and get up early and blah blah blah. So that was really hard. I don't know really hard like point on my life where I had to decide. Like if I wanted to continue this road because I knew it was becoming more serious and kind of more professional thing rather than being still a hobby. Now you've got compromises with the national team and like you know with your coach and everyone that's helping you and that's committed to you.

 

[00:06:26] So on that year I decided to quit or give me a break for like three months maybe. And I did all of these like I traveled with my friends. I went to sleepovers and parties and all that. But at the end of the day, I decided that it was always the same thing like you went out with the same people you saw at school you're seeing the party and then. I was Yeah. They're cool and parties as well but I don't know. I just thought it was kind of the same thing. And I realized I wanted to do something more with my life and rather just like I don’t know just going out and partying and whatever. So yeah I decided to come back in and be more committed and I guess it all started from there from that point on. I've been part of the national team. And then yeah I guess well I went to four junior pennants which you can only go to two because is 17 and 18. But I went from 14 15 Sorry.

 

Laura:

[00:07:30] Breaking all the rules.

 

Ingrid:

[00:07:30] Yeah I know and then I went to junior worlds as well and I was two-time medalist. And I was 18 at the time so I was like Yeah this is really serious here. Like this is no joke no. And after that year so 2011 that was my last year as a junior and next year were the Olympics and it was gonna be my first year as an athlete. And I was more inclined undoing track cycling. Then there was this girl that she was she had been fighting the whole four years before the Olympics to like qualify on the track. So I was like I'm not gonna get into your way. She's been doing it and I couldn't have done it before because I was a junior and I really wanted to go on the track but I was like she's being like fighting for it so I'm going to step aside. And that's when I decided to go on the road and quit the track you know. And yeah. I just started with the road and I started competing for more road and find some races in the US. Because I normally raised only in Mexico and then internationally I raised phenoms and worlds but nothing else so.

 

[00:08:40] I try to find some races in the US so I could step up my game you know and race against people who I knew that was gonna be on the Olympics and stuff and I might try and see how it goes. And then I don't know. I think things just came. It was unexpected. The National Federation they gave us several qualifying events and I won all of them again. Like the elites that have been there and fighting for many years so I was like. And then we're waiting for the Federation to announce like who is the one that was gonna represent Mexico in the Olympics because we only had one spot. So on road cycling you can have four but as a nation we had very few points that we only had one spot. So the Federation had to pick one person and I won all the qualification events that they have. And then I got the call like hey you're gonna go to the Olympics. I was 18 at the time and I was like OK what's going on. Like I didn't expected and I think I mean that event obviously it changed my life and it changed the way I saw cycling.

 

[00:09:54] So I was still studying. I had just gotten into university because I knew I wanted a career besides cycling even though I knew that I could probably become a professional. I knew I had to have something like a background. You never know. Probably at the end of the day maybe I wake up tomorrow and I can't ride my bike anymore. What am I gonna do you know. So we've got to be prepared. And I always had this plan in my head that cycling is gonna be part of my life until a certain point. Because I'm I really wanna work and I wanna have a job or probably I don't know create something and work outside of cycling. And then obviously have a family and then having a family thing being a professional for me. I just think is really risky is a really risky sport and then I mean going out training for four or five hours having your husband and kids on home and knowing that you might not come back. That just it's kind of scary for me. I'm not saying I'm not gonna do it. Like I'm gonna keep on cycling because I love it but maybe not as a professional.

 

Laura:

[00:11:04] Well so I have a question for you because you're so wise in being so young and thinking OK well I can't cycle forever I need a backup plan just in case. I mean that's wisdom beyond most 18year olds I think. Well, your parents very influential in those thoughts? Or was this all you? Or was this from watching others?

 

Ingrid:

[00:11:23] I think they really helped. Because they also grew on a family where they had a good formation from their parents. And I think they translated that to us. I think it was just all part of how I have been raised in the education my parents gave me. Because I know for my age I was more mature than the average kids. So and I think it was also part of it. I started traveling a lot to races inside of Mexico. And then you open your eyes and see that. Well, I think it was really privileged because my parents could give me everything. Like I didn't need anything else. Because of that, I think that's where I am today. Because they could provide me with all the material equipment and they could take me to races and stuff. But also traveling and seeing that other people they couldn't because they didn't have the economic resources to do it. I just think that made me like value more what I had and you know being grateful to my friends for what they have given me. And you know and just taking that as a hey you've got this opportunity to take it and do the best you can with it. You know.

 

Laura:

[00:12:51] Yeah. No. I totally agree with you. I was an athlete started traveling as a teenager as well. And I think it's very impactful seeing how other people live and get through things and it just. It really opens up your eyes in a way that nothing else can right? Well OK so you make the 2012 Olympic team. It's a total shock to 18year old Ingrid. And what was the London Olympic experience like?

 

Ingrid:

[00:13:13] Oh my God! It was, first of all, like when you get all of the like the equipment and like you know all the material for my team and all of these bags full of things. Like the uniforms and then you go to the president's housing in the capital. Because the president's going to like I I'll give you some words and like wish you the best you know and all that and I'm like. I think I’m in a real shock and I was so young. I didn't. Like I didn't know anyone so then OK we traveled to London we get to the Olympic Village and I was just shocked. It's like another city in there like yeah it was Wow! I was shocked and I didn't even know any of my rivals at the time because I hadn't competed with them before because I was a junior. So I didn't even know who was who. So what was just like OK I'm gonna.

 

Laura:

[00:14:10] That's probably a good thing right?

 

Ingrid:

[00:14:11] I know. That's what I'm thinking now like. But I think that was the best thing that could ever happen. So I was just like OK I'm gonna do what I know. What I've always been doing just OK step on the line and wait for the start and go you know. It was really intimidating seeing all of the other countries like potential countries like the Netherlands, the U.S., Australia, Italy. They all had full teams and I was there like the Mexican the Latin alone you know you don't have a team. So it's kind of like you're in deep under different circumstances you know. They didn’t know me I didn't know who they were. So it was just but then I said you know what we're all here for the same thing you know. So just go out there and have fun. Then I remembered we were on the line and it started to rain and I have never raced or trained on the rain before never. So I was like Oh my God! I started freaking out I was like OK just come down. Because where I lived it was super risky to go out on the rain because of the traffic the cars and then the roads are super slippery. That it's just like soap like if you went out you would slip. Yeah. It was terrible. So that's why I've never rode or even raced on the rain. Because whenever it rained things would get suspended. So I was like OK come down it's the same for everyone but I know. I mean in London it rains always so I know a lot of Europeans we're used to like racing or turning on the rain. Like ok, no worries same circumstances for everyone. And then OK we started we got started at the mall. So just in front of the Buckingham Palace. So it was beautiful.

 

Laura:

[00:16:05] Wow. Yeah epic start.

 

Ingrid:

[00:16:07] Yeah. And then we started writing out to the countryside. And I remember we got there and then we had to do two big laps around a. I think It was a park or a college or something. And I remember that on one of the turns it was really tight and then while the palace and we were about 16 maybe. A girl crashed in front of like I don't know probably in the middle of the pack and she because he was really narrow. And I don't know probably 20 people crashed into her I was one of them. Nothing happened so nothing really scary like we didn't get seriously injured or anything. But that was like the key point of the race. Because after that crash it was like the climb which was like the toughest part of the race and that's where all the action started because it was the last lap.

 

[00:16:58] And so yeah I mean crashing it takes time to get your bike and then it was just a pile of people and stuff. And then OK so the front of the race went and I'm like well I'm here I got to finish. Doesn't matter. Just give it your all. So I stand up. Get on my bike again and started pedaling. And then a little group about five or six girls got together and started riding together. But then some of the girls that were on my group. They had teammates on the front so they didn't wanna work anymore because if we caught them at some point they were taking rivals to the others you know? So then there was.

 

Laura:

[00:17:41] Such a strategic I didn't even think about that.

 

Ingrid:

[00:17:42] Yeah! Exactly! So then there was a point that I had I was just riding by myself. And then it was like OK I don't think you can make it to the front group riding by myself you know man the rain and all but I just kept on riding. And then I remember they started like telling me things like Hey stop like you're never gonna make it. Just like give up and blah blah blah. And I was just like.

 

Laura:

[00:18:05] Who? Like other racers or who is?

 

Ingrid:

[00:18:06] Yeah. Yeah. The other girls who were on my group. I mean the front of the race was gone and they had teammates over there so they didn't care if they finished on time or not. But I was alone I was the only Mexican rider I was there. My first times on the Olympics I wanted to do my thing and I wanted to do my best. So I just kept on riding and then I started falling from the sky.

 

Laura:

[00:18:29] Are you serious?

 

Ingrid:

[00:18:31] I'm serious. I was like oh my God! What is this? Like God help me please.

 

Laura:

[00:18:39] Oh my God.

 

Ingrid:

[00:18:39] Oh you started feeling that ice hitting you and it was. Yeah. It was just so hurtful. And I didn't have anything for like the cold weather and me. So I just remember when I saw a finish line it was like oh like it’s just a light bright enough. And I remember I crossed the finish line. I was all covered like mud and like from all this flash from the road you know.

 

Laura:

[00:19:02] Did you even feel your arms and legs? You must’ve frozen?

 

Ingrid:

[00:19:04] I can’t feel anything. I was like just trembling like oh my hands were like purple from the rain and the cold and everything.

 

Laura:

[00:19:12] Oh that sounds so awful.

 

Ingrid:

[00:19:13] Yeah. And I crossed the line. And all my family was there and my mom she was really worried because the front of the race had finished like 10 or 15 minutes before I got there. So when the first group finished and my mom didn't see me she was like OK something's wrong. Like something happened to Ingrid. Where is she.? Because she was like 5 minutes she was in there, 10 minutes, 15 minutes and then you're like Oh my God where is Ingrid?! What happened?! And nobody told her where I was or what had happened or. So she was like really worried. And finally when I crossed the line and she saw me all covered in mud and like breathing she started to cry because she was like oh there’s my baby. Yeah. I mean now I think about it and I guess it was a really good experience for me. I really really had wanted to go back but with more experience knowing the riders and obviously having a team around me. So that's what I aim for on the next 4 years for the Olympics. So that was 2012 and then 2013 I got my first pro contract.

 

Laura:

[00:20:19] Oh exciting.

 

Ingrid:

[00:20:19] Yeah. I went with an Italian team so I went to Europe aged 19. I mean it was a different country, different people, different language. Even living by yourself. Leaving home. It was kind of hard and then there was a big team house and there were some times that you. Because you didn't do all the races so sometimes you were left alone at the house. And I felt so lonely because I wasn't used to that. That I would cry like at nights just because I didn't know anyone. And like I didn't know that.

 

Laura:

[00:20:52] How long would you be at the house? For training or for meet sir?

 

Ingrid:

[00:20:56] Well because all of the races mainly when we're in Europe. So I would go for a blog of probably 2-3 months. So that was a long period especially like on my first time and not knowing anyone. And I'm telling you like different country, different language, different people, then being alone in a big house you are like Okay. And then I wasn't used to like cooking for myself and cleaning the house and like washing clothes and all that. So you gonna grow I mean gonna grow. It was really harsh because you get really lonely and then you go to races and it wasn't what you expected. Because you're on a whole different level. You're going from juniors to elite. So you're going to raising probably 80k to racing 100k, 120k, 140k and a different pace, different woman, different conditions. I mean it's a really big jump and adaptation process really takes a lot from you. And you can be the strongest woman physically but if you don't have the mental strength to get aware of that. Like you're never gonna make it.

 

Laura:

[00:22:10] How did you do that? How how did you get through the Olympic? How did you get through these difficult times? I mean starting this new professional career all by yourself like that. I mean that is a lot. How do you handle that?

 

Ingrid:

[00:22:21] It was really hard for me especially well getting through the Olympics. I have the crowds and I think it was that log. And probably that's what was meant to happen to me in order to come back and stronger. And like desire more for the next block or whatever. So then when I got my first contract in 2013 my first race I remember it was Giro d'Italia which is like the most important race for women in cycling. So I was like just thrown to the wolves.

 

Laura:

[00:22:50] Again?

 

Ingrid:

[00:22:51] Yeah just go out there and do a thing. And for my first time I actually was really good. I had really good result so I was like OK this is I mean I can do it you know I can make it. But I was used to racing probably like 10, 15, 20 races at most in one year. And then on this 3 months I remember I had 30 races. So my body after the Giro I think I didn't even know how to handle like recovery and all of that stuff because I wasn't used to all this. I kept on racing because that's what the calendar and the team had for me. And I just got onto like I bunked. I had chronic fatigue I couldn't even pedal I wasn't sleeping I was that just got into my head like OK probably you're not good enough to be at this level. It was just really hard. I remember the last races I didn't even finish because I couldn't like my body couldn't do it. And then it was also a mental thing. Now it was both physical and mental. So I came back home after all of that and I was obviously really disappointed with myself. And you know letting people down because it's just for a first contract first time is unprofessional.

 

[00:24:09] Everyone expects something from you. And I guess sometimes you start driving that towards people's expectations instead of knowing why you're doing it you know. I Started cycling because it's something I love not because I wanted to like I don't know surprise people or whatever you know or leave to their expectations. But I guess you forget all of that with the pressure and the pressure to perform and do good because you were really good nationally you know. So I came back and I was just so frustrated and I was like I kept on telling myself like I got to train more more more more and more because these girls train a lot. And that's why they're really good. But he was totally the opposite. I had to rest I had to let my body just like disconnect for a while in order to like get freshen up and start again. Because I had just bonked into and gone into a hole and had a chronic fatigue and like all my levels were on the floor and. What I didn't understand that and I think it's also soft leads. We're just thinking about OK what can we do better to be better and you can train here so hard on yourself when you never want to rest you know.

 

[00:25:29] So I started going with a sports psychologist and and I didn't want to do it because I was like No I'm not crazy. And you know how people saying is like you know seeing a psychology is because you're crazy. And I was like I'm not crazy. And everyone kept on telling me but I guess you don't understand until you actually go and see how it works. I started seeing a sports psychologist and I started realizing that first of all I had to listen to my body. Second of all I knew I had to race. And third of all realizing that I had mental issues it was not all physical. Break yourself up with the results. And just thinking about OK you were like super good winning everything in Mexico and like always having a podium internationally and the America level and now you're no one. You're like just OK you're one more in the pack. So that's really hard to overcome that. And just like people talking like oh you know you see Ingrid's not good enough like she was the best year. But as soon as you throw her to the professional then like the highest level she's no one. And so that starts getting in your head. And we finally after a year and a half it took me a year and a half to regain confidence and regain my fitness and started competing again and being myself again. So I made those changes and I think that really helped me.

 

[00:26:57] And I was on the road to qualifying for the real Olympics in 2016 and I think it was really good. I was doing everything right. And one year before the Olympics. I was racing I was winning races. I was getting points to qualify. So the way to qualify to the Olympics in road cycling is you gotta be on the first 100 on the ranking in the world ranking or as a nation be in the top 22 on the ranking. So I did that. I accomplished that. I was in the top 100 as a rider as an individual rider and I gave Mexico the ranking. I think we were at the end on the 20th. But again it was only one spot that we gained because we were so far back down on the ranking. So there was one spot I had won the spot for Mexico but the spot that you gain it doesn't have your name. So it's the national team that decides at the end of the day who goes. So they told us that they were gonna pick who went on the national championships. I was like OK so you're basing who's gonna represent Mexico in the Olympics with one race. After all the hard work. And I was like OK one more race. You can do it. Anything can happen you know it was one race. So I remember we started the race. My bike broke. Something happened in the chain goes stuck and it just it broke the buck part and I had a spare bike but it wasn't my fit it was my mom's bike but I had taken it just in case. So I changed bikes like three times. And it was just horrible I mean all of the changes and I mean you know it gets into your head.

 

So yeah. At the end I think I got like fifth on that national championships. And then they have said that the girl who won the championships was gonna be the one who went to the Olympics. But no at the end of the day they changed everything again. And they decided that another girl who wasn't even on the long list for the Olympics was gonna go. And it was all political.

 

Laura:

[00:29:21] So frustrating.

 

Ingrid:

[00:29:21] Yeah. I remember after that I went back to Europe with my team because I was going to keep on racing there. And they haven't given any news so it was like okay. I mean it's been like probably 2 or 3 weeks after that race and we haven't heard anything about it. This was July already and the Olympics were in August and we didn't know who was gonna go. So again I was racing the Giro d'Italia and one morning I remember I woke up and I wanted to Facebook you know how you wake up and you go into your social media. And so I started seeing Facebook and then I saw posts from the national team and that was the news announcing the girl that was gonna go to the Olympics.

 

Laura:

[00:30:06] So you didn't get a phone call. You didn't get an email. You saw it on their Facebook.

 

Ingrid:

[00:30:09] Anything. Yes. Anything. I didn't get a single call, a single email, text nothing. I saw the news on Facebook. And I remember this girl that had been picked. She was my roommate at the time we were on the same team. So I woke up first and I saw the news and I went out of the room and I started crying. And then when she woke up obviously she was really happy. It was a really hard moment. Tough moment because you wanted to be happy for her. Then at the same time I was just devastated. And I couldn't even believe that they hadn't had the guts to call us you know and give us the news personally or hey you're going or hey you're not going because of this is that. And I tried calling them I tried emailing them and texting or whatever and I never got a response back like I never heard back from them. So because they knew they had violated their own rules you know. So yeah I mean it was just really hard and after that I just crashed again like mentally you know it was you know. You get depressed you were like all these hard work for nothing and blah blah blah. You know it starts getting in your head. And I decided that year 2016 that I was gonna tired maybe this wasn't for me and you know.

 

Laura:

[00:31:36] Like professionally and everything.

 

Ingrid:

[00:31:38] Yeah. Like what's the point if you're doing all this. And you're I mean you have this goal and you achieve it you get to it. And then at the end of the day it doesn't depend on your performance or on what you're doing to go or not to go to a race?

 

Laura:

[00:31:55] Someone can just take it away right?

 

Ingrid:

[00:31:56] Exactly. So I was like You know what. And I was stunning at the time. I was like OK I'm just going to dedicate all my time to finishing my college degree and starting the next chapter in my life. And so I came back home after Europe and I was just really crushed and I left my bike. I remember I traveled with my bike back home. But you know it's parked in a big box and so I left it in the box when I came home I didn't even want to see it. I just want to like to refresh mentally and physically. And I tried to enjoy my family and friends and all that. And then I remember I got an email from a team from a European team saying that they wanted me to be part of their team next year. I'm like OK. But I wasn't even in the mood. And then I don't know probably like two weeks later I got another email from another team. And then I got another email from another team. So I had like four offers from four different teams to be on their team professionally. Now Im like what?! Like this it never happened before. This must be a sign like this. I mean I must be doing something good for 4 doing things they want me on the team. You know?

 

Laura:

[00:33:17] I would think so. Yeah!

 

Ingrid:

[00:33:20] Yeah. I thought to myself like you know what dialing doesn't define me. Being an Olympian doesn't define who I am. Obviously something you want as an athlete because who doesn't you know. You're an athlete you always wanna be on the first step of the podium and you're there to win. You know you're competing to win. But at the end of the day I think you gotta find. You gonna realize that being on a bike doesn't define who you are. Going to the Olympics or being an Olympic athlete doesn't define who you are. There's more to life besides that. And not everyone has the same opportunities. And most important of all things happen for a reason. And yeah I think that was a really important year in my career to make me realize that. Cycling is what I love and I do it because I love it not because I want to be someone. I had been for years in Europe already and I got an offer from an American team and I was like OK I wanna make a change. You know. Changes are good. So I signed with an American team based in California northern California. It was one of my best years of my career 2017 honestly and I had thought about retirement. And yeah I guess it all like you all came back to you're doing this because you love it not because it defines you. No.

 

[00:34:52] After all of that and after leaving all of that I just started realizing that I wanted to keep on doing this sport because it was what I like to do. And because I wanted to leave something to the upcoming generations and try to share my story and tell them that first. Because everyone in Mexico probably opportunities aren't as a. They don't present us often as in other developing countries so everyone ask me like how do you got there? Like how do you do it? This is your eight year as a professional. Like how no one has been able to do that? No one has had a contract or that many years in a row. So that's what I want to give to the Sports. I want to give back what it has shown me and how it had made me grow. Become a more mature person and realizing that there is more to life than just being an athlete. Cycling is a really hard sport I mean you got to love suffering you. Got to be able to handle the pressure especially the pressure about you got to be really skinny you're a girl and you got to lose weight and blah blah blah. You know just all of that gets into your head and I think it causes a lot of disorders in female athletes even male. So you're also playing with your health.

 

Laura:

[00:36:14] Well I'd love to ask you about that because I know you've been pretty open about how you struggled with eating disorders. And that's also I mean very prevalent in my sport as well. And so I'd love it if you could briefly take us through kind of how that developed? And how you I mean maybe you still deal with I don't know. But how you overcame it and get through that daily?

 

Ingrid:

[00:36:31] For becoming a full road athlete I did a lot of track. So track cycling you gonna have more muscle because you've got to be more strong. And because it's all about power and shored efforts and stuff. So it's gonna be all power all muscle all for strength. So I'm a big girl and I developed muscle really easily so. So yeah. I had a big body I had a lot of muscle in my legs so when I started road cycling and I went to Europe I mean most of the girls are really skinny. They just start telling you like you'll lose weight you can be better. Hey I think you get a couple of pounds. Couple of extra pounds on you like it starts getting you in your head. Even if you're not an athlete and you're a girl and someone tells you that you're overweight you're always shocked you know and gets into your head. And so yeah I was like OK I gonna take care of myself. So I saw a nutritionist and he was like guiding me and stuff. But every time it was the same thing you got to lose weight. You gotta lose weight. You got to lose weight. Got to lose weight. And I remember there was a year that I lost a lot of weight because I wasn't recovering. So I had to like I was obviously on a calorie deficit. But it was just I felt good on the bike or stronger but I wasn't happy because you don't have energy to do anything else besides training you know. You just you have solo energy. You're in a bad mood all the time because you're not getting all your nutrients. You're not recovering well. And then also if you get invited to like dinner or I don't know to have coffee with friends you don't want to go because you don't want to eat there. You know?

 

Laura:

[00:38:18] It’s stressful? Yeah. Ah-hmm...

 

Ingrid:

[00:38:18] Yeah. It’s really stressful. So I just realized and I went again to the nutritionist and I'm like OK I got to be skinny but I got to be healthy as well. So I started working with her and it worked really good because she showed me how to eat and what to eat. And fulfilled my all the other things that I lose on wild training wild racing and getting all my nutrients. And yeah I started feeling better obviously I gained some pounds but it was strength it was muscles. And I realized I was happier and I didn't have to be stressed all the time. And as long as you're performing. Try not to worry about that I mean I know you have to maintain a weight but you have to be healthy. I mean if you're not healthy and you're unhappy it's worthless.

 

Laura:

[00:39:07] Sports only lasts so long too. You have to I think remember that we think it's our whole world but on wrapped up in it. But it keeps going on after you're done with your sport. At some point everybody has to be done with their sport you know.

 

Ingrid:

[00:39:08] Exactly!

[00:39:17] Totally. I mean you're gonna hit that point that you're either no longer qualified to keep on racing because you're too old or you're just not performing as well or you never know. Or you'd have an accident that hopefully we don't. But yeah you got to realize that there's gonna be a point where you're not gonna be a professional athlete anymore.

 

Laura:

[00:39:39] Well changing gears a little bit. I love that you talked about how you are starting your university studies and you kind of going to take your time on it. And I think last year you finally got your degree right in international business?

 

Ingrid:

[00:39:52] Yeah. Yeah. I did.

 

Laura:

[00:39:54] Congratulations!

 

Ingrid:

[00:39:54] Thank you. I graduated on May last year. I felt really happy because I had been studying or doing my college degree for six years so.

 

Laura:

[00:40:08] Nice. That's dedication right there and consistency.

 

Ingrid:

[00:40:12] Instead of taking the four years that you usually take. I finished in six because I was doing professional cyclist at the time and I didn't want to leave my studies. And yeah I mean there were some semesters where I had to go to Europe and compete which I had to only take probably one or two classes. But yeah I'm so happy I got my degree.

 

Laura:

[00:40:34] Well, didn't something else happened right after you got your degree?

 

Ingrid:

[00:40:37] I got married. Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:40:39] That's awesome. Well congratulations on both of those. It's so exciting.

 

Ingrid:

[00:40:43] Thank you.

 

Laura:

[00:40:44] Now what's next for you? Are you gonna be doing more pro circuits? Is there even a thought of 2020? Or are you moving on past the Olympics? Or what are your goals?

 

Ingrid:

[00:40:52] So I signed two more years with the team that I've been racing for the last two years the American team name Tibco–Silicon Valley Bank. And I signed two more years because yeah my ultimate goal again is the 2020 Olympics. After that I've talked to myself and I've come to a conclusion that I want to retired from the pro circuit. I'm gonna be settling with my friends maybe? But I would want to retire just take a break from the pro circuit. This year I have a full calendar starting on March in Europe with my team and it goes all the way to October.

 

Laura:

[00:41:27] Wow!

 

Ingrid:

[00:41:28] It's a really important year because it's where the Olympic ranking opens up. So every raise you go every race is an opportunity to get points and go up there and the ranking.

 

Laura:

[00:41:40] Has Mexico changed its rules at all on how they pick the Olympians?

 

Ingrid:

[00:41:43] Not really. That's what I would gonna say. I'm going into this whole process again knowing that the final decision is not in my hands. So I'm getting into this process with that idea. And knowing that if I do everything in my power to qualify and whatever the outcome is that I can retire happy and satisfied and knowing that I did everything in my power to go. So I think that mentality is gonna help me get through it more easily. I have full support of my husband full support of my family my coach. So yeah that's my goal. That's my program. And yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:42:33] It's a great great way to go into it. I think it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Well where can we follow you to continue to be inspired by you and to cheer you on along all of these adventures. Like where can we follow you online?

 

Ingrid:

[00:42:45] Obviously Instagram my thing right now is social and the top social media. So my Instagram is @IngridDrexel so just my name and last name. And I also have a Facebook page same my name Ingrid Drexel and Twitter @IngridDr so yeah. Those are social media as I use and I usually post what I'm doing and.

 

Laura:

[00:43:07] Awesome. Ingrid thank you so very much for coming on the podcast today. You are just awesome. I love your personality is adorable and I love just the way you handle things your heart for other people. And for showing people what you've learned I think that's brilliant so thank you again so much for being on.

 

Ingrid:

[00:43:22] Thank you very much for having me. Really nice to meet you. And I'm so happy I can have a chance to tell people a little bit of my story.

 

Laura:

[00:43:34] I'm so thankful to Ingrid for joining us on today's show. I really appreciate her honesty as she shared about the struggle to switch to the pro circuit. I think we can all relate to those moments when others expectations weigh heavy on us and if we let it that pressure can become crippling. But I love how Ingrid shared about her journey of releasing those voices and how that allowed her to cycle just for the pure joy of it. Such a great lesson for all of us no matter what we're doing. Be sure to tune in next week to hear from Olympic gold medalist diver David Boudia. He shares about what it's like to chase an Olympic dream from the age of 7 and how it's forever changed his life. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen because you don't want to miss this one. And please go ahead and leave us a review because those reviews help us get these amazing guests on the show. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please visit HopeSports.org

 

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About This Episode

Dallas Seavey was born into a family of Iditarod legends. His grandfather participated in the very first two Iditarod races in 1973 and 1974, and his father has won three races of his own. Though he grew up working in the kennels, training dogs, and talking race tactics, his sights weren’t originally set on dog-sled racing. In school he made a name for himself wrestling competitively and turned heads at the state and national levels. He was the highest ranked junior in the wrestling World Tour and, after graduation, moved to the Olympic Training Center in Michigan. Unfortunately, he suffered one too many concussions and was forced to retire from wrestling at age 19. After dedicating seven straight years to this dream, he returned to Alaska devastated and discouraged. Today it seems easy to see the bigger picture, but at the time it was challenging to believe that a new dream would arise. Despite his sense of loss, he found comfort and familiarity working with the his father’s dogs back in Alaska.

After two years of working for his dad he began pursuing mushing on his own. He began with only sixteen dogs and has since grown his team to over 100 dogs and eight full time staff. Dallas shares that what he loves about mushing is the complexity of the sport. Unlike wrestling which pushes athletes mentally and physically, mushing challenges athletes on an emotional level. He has had to develop a more nurturing, compassionate style of coaching rather than the harsh, dig deep strategy of so many sports. In short, mushing forced him to develop his character in ways that he hadn’t before. No longer was he making decisions that were only good for himself, but he had to refine the skills necessary to connect with his team, weigh the benefits for everyone involved, and make the wisest choice possible.

Most people think of the Iditarod as an eight day race, but Seavey considers it “the never ending day.” He has found that so many mushers go into the race feeling the pressure that if they don’t succeed in these few days, the entire year was a waste. But Dallas has found that this sort of mindset stunts the ability to lead with perspective and insight. “You have to be willing to give up a win in order to do the right thing for the team,” he says. The reality is that in the end, being free from the weight of winning allows mushers to make the right decision at critical moments in the race.

In one particular Iditarod, Seavey recalls being in the final day and over 100 miles behind the leaders with less than 300 miles of the race left. There had been barely any snow, which made for a very rough, fast trail. Unfortunately, the weather turned in those final hours and 90 mph winds ripped through the icy terrain, flipping the sled--and the dogs with it. After being blown over several times, Dallas had to compose himself and his team and make a new plan. Rather than consider the big picture of the race he zoomed way in to that one particular moment, that one next step. He decided to mush one sprint at a time; with this strategy he was only able to cover 100 meters at a time before being tossed and scattered by the wind. He would hunker down with his team until the gust subsided and then sprint another 100 meters. Over and over Seavey and his team repeated this until, eventually, sprint after sprint turned into 40 miles and his team crossed the finish line with another Iditarod victory.

Though he credits his love of the Iditarod to his father and grandfather, Dallas has developed a style all his own. As a young musher he was always changing his strategies, investing in innovation, and trying new tactics. His father was proud to race cautiously, safely, and with high pedigree dogs. However, their friendly competition throughout the years has forced each one to consider the benefits of one anothers techniques and become better racers because of it. There is one thing that they will always have in common: their integrity. In 2017, Dallas faced allegations of doping when four of his sixteen dogs tested positive after he finished the race in second place. In this week’s podcast he shares that he took these accusations very personally, as he has always run a homeopathic kennel and gone out of his way to make the health of his dogs a priority. But due to the nature of the drug in question and the fact that it was clearly administered before an expected drug test, it seemed unlikely that Dallas was at fault and more probable that tampering was taking place. Triggered by the ordeal, Seavey has led the charge for drastic changes to be made to race security to ensure the protection of each team member and has chosen to abstain from competing until these revisions have been made.

Through all of the ups and downs of the past two years, he is proud to say that his honor and integrity are in tact. “At the end of the day, I know that I did the right thing,” he says. Looking forward he is optimistic that he will compete in the next Iditarod. And if his family legacy is any indication, we surely have many more races to come from Dallas Seavey.

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Laura:

[00:00:04] Welcome to the hope sports podcast where athletes share the ups and downs of their journey to the top. In the moments along the way that gave them profound purpose. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. Before this week's interview, I honestly didn't know that much about the Iditarod. It's called The Last Great Race on Earth and it spans a thousand miles of Alaska's most beautiful and brutal terrain. Today we have with us 4-time champion and the youngest person to win that title Dallas Seavey. Dallas was initially an Olympic hopeful in wrestling. And in this episode, you'll hear what caused him to give that up. He'll tell you about some of the most challenging moments on the trail and about how they Iditarod is more than a mental or physical test. It's an emotional one. I was blown away by what I learned from Dallas and I'm sure you will be too. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Welcome, Dallas Seavey we are so excited to have you on the Hope Sports Podcast today!

 

Dallas:

[00:01:01] Well thanks for having me. I'm glad to be able to talk to you.

 

Laura:

[00:01:05] Well let's kind of set the stage a little bit. I wanna know more about your background because you're already in Iditarod legend but I know there was another sport that you excelled at beforehand. Can you tell us a little bit about your whole life growing up in sports?

 

Dallas:

[00:01:20] Yeah I've been surrounded by sports my entire life starting out when I was 5 years old my dad competing in the Iditarod professionally. And that really was the center of my childhood was preparing teams to compete at the top level. So sports has always been a big part of my life. In my youth, I got into wrestling which was kind of a way for I think my dad to put me in a situation that I could excel and have my own life. Both my older brothers were obviously bigger and better at everything and they were both very accomplished in the mushing world. So by lining me up and wrestling you kind of gave me my own sort. And also my grandpa and my dad had a history of wrestling as well so that was a goal for many years. My life was focused around wrestling and that was my plan to wrestle as long as my body held up and then returned to mushing you know when I'm 30 35 somewhere like that. Unfortunately, my body didn't quite make it that far. I made it to I guess the rest of my last match when I was 19. And at that point I was the highest ranked junior in the US they had been on the Junior World team represented the US in Lithuania. Became the first Alaskan to win a national title an Olympic Style Wrestling.

 

Laura:

[00:02:38] Wow.

 

Dallas:

[00:02:40] Yeah. I was on a good course. I was training at the Olympic Training Center at Northern Michigan University and very very good setup good coaching. And everything was going great until I had a few too many concussions. And they said you're done.

 

Laura:

[00:02:57] And how did you take that? I mean did you see that coming or we’re you kind of devastated?

 

Dallas:

[00:03:03] No. Yeah. I was devastated. I think to be successful in any sport you have to be in it wholeheartedly. You can't kind of do something expects to excel at it. And I had built my life around wrestling for really 7 years that everything I did was. The question is is this gonna help me be a better wrestler? Whatever the question or problem before me was. The normal day to day life choices practicing. Whatever. Is this going to help me reach my goal? And when you build your life around something like that. That becomes who you are. And then when that gets taken away it really opens up a big question of what now? Who am I now? And so yeah it was that was definitely a low point for me. Where do I turn my focus? I have built up success as a wrestler to be such a huge thing and for that to go away was created a pretty big boy.

 

Laura:

[00:04:02] So how did you fill that void? Like did you stay at school or did you go back home? Like how. What were your next steps? How do you walk past that? It's a big deal.

 

Dallas:

[00:04:13] Yeah. It was a very big deal for me. And you know two things. One I've always I think had the benefit of being able to see the bigger picture at times. Not always as your initial reaction but upon contemplation. You start looking at it and say you know what in the scope of things I'm pretty dang blessed to be where I am and have as many things going right as what I have going right. There's always somebody who has it worse you know. So I think that was helpful just being able to look at the broader spectrum I have a great family. Surrounded by people that care about me otherwise, I'm a healthy person. The issues I'm dealing with the concussion stuff will pass. So these are small issues. These are things we can deal with but that's hard to understand when you're in that position. You may be able to tell yourself those things but really feeling it or believing it is a lot harder to do. And it's easy to see what you should think. But it's another thing to make yourself think.

 

[00:05:10] So for me, I kind of returned to my mushing roots. Mostly what it was these dogs have always been my best friend and my closest companions. I was homeschooled all the way through high school despite wrestling for the high school I was still homeschooled through that. And so I saw a group of absolutely fantastic just very talented athletes in my dad's kennel 2-year-old. So I kind of took on the job training them and taking them through the Iditarod as just a developmental thing. Kind of our college program for sled dogs where they train and compete Iditarod but not competitively. So I kind of immerse myself from that got back to the roots and where I felt comfortable wilderness and dogs.

 

Laura:

[00:05:52] So in that. Did that like lead right into racing? Or how did that work out?

 

Dallas:

[00:05:58] Not specifically it was kind of something to do in the interim. I've always been the personality type that I need to be doing something. Something that I can really see myself into. Something that's challenging and complex preferably. So that was supposed to just be a short term you know to figure out what to do next sort of thing. It was two years later when I decided to start my own kennel and develop my own racing team. And I know by then I could kind of come to grips with. Yeah, I guess this was the plan I was gonna wrestle til I couldn't. And then I was, no go back to mushing it just because it happened sooner. You know what our plans. Only something to be changed I suppose.

 

Laura:

[00:06:39] I love it. Just rolling with the punches. That's awesome. So I guess what kind of made you fall in love with the mushing part? Was it just that kind of that comfort factor or were you just good at it? Like what really kind of made you say OK now I'm gonna take that next step and opened my whole own kennel. Because it's a big deal! I mean how many dogs do you have?

 

Dallas:

[00:06:59] Right now I've got about 80 adult dogs in my yard and in the last actually the last two weeks I've had about 15 new. So. This. Yeah. It just grew a little bit. But I have quite a large group of dogs that we're generally right around the hundred dog mark. And then with 100 dogs come. Right now I think we have 7 or 8 people that are full-time staff working with dogs. So they become your family as well. So it's a lot of responsibility. It's a definitely a big step. Now when you get into the sport I don't think you start with that I started with 16 dogs in myself. And so it grows over time of course. But I think what I love about mushing and what drew me into it to do that it's a profession and a lifestyle was that it is very complex, it's very multifaceted, and I think it rewards the right traits. As a wrestler, you learn to push yourself. You learn that there's always more you learn how to dig deeper. As a musher, I find myself in more of a coaching capacity which is more of a kind of developmental and nurturing capacity almost.

 

[00:08:12] So you. Yes. You have to have that deep grit you have to be able to dig deep and get through the blizzards and go 8 days without sleeping. But you have to be able to do that with compassion. You have to do that without losing your sense of feel to be able to run a team successfully you have to love it. You have to care about them and love them and be able to feel everything they feel. And so to have the toughness but yet be able to keep that caring side open is a big challenge and I think that's something that's helped me grow as a person. And then also has been the root of a lot of our success is that we're willing to feel. Feel everything. That's the only way to make good decisions is to have all the information. The only way to have information is by feel.

 

Laura:

[00:08:54] Wow! That’s so good. That is so good. Now you became the youngest measure to win the Iditarod when you captured that title in 2012 at the age of 25. Is that right?

 

Dallas:

[00:09:07] That’s correct.

 

Laura:

[00:09:07] And then you also won in 2014, 2015 and 2016. And I really have to just quote something that I loved that I read. After your 4th win, you were explaining what that accomplishment meant to your family and you said it's just another day of mushing man. That's what we do. I just love it. You just have this just such even keel ness about you. But I mean like you just said it's a thousand mile long race, 8 days of no sleep, and you're trying to be compassionate through blizzards and coaching you know your way through it. Like how can you stay focused for that long a period of time in those conditions?

 

Dallas:

[00:09:50] The Iditarod is the never ending day. That's the best way to explain it. You don't look at the race as an 8-day race. Look at it as two hundred hours of consecutive go. And it really is the one time in the year that I have to make every right decision. And I have to stay absolutely focused through every piece of this. Everything we do has to be done well and thoroughly and correctly. Even sleeping is stressful because you lay down and you have a 30-minute chance to sleep. You know as soon as you lay down if you're not instantly asleep you start thinking to yourself I've got to sleep. There's no way I'm going to stay awake. And then all of a sudden there's this pressure and then many mushers face the problem of when they do doze off. They jolt awake with an adrenaline rush for fear that they've overslept because that is common. There's nobody out there in remote Alaska and you don't wake up when your alarm clock goes off or in your sleep-deprived haze, you said it incorrectly 4:00a.m. instead of P.M. or something. You may well sleep for 8 hours and there goes your whole race. But I think to touch back on what you know that comment that you shared after I get the 2016 Iditarod the fourth race that we that we won.

 

[00:11:06] I think that's a really important point. That's oftentimes overlooked. We put so much pressure on the event on the race itself that it's a big deal. And that's something we choose to do. I see many mushers that train very hard. They work hard to make it to the race. And they go into a race with so much pressure that if they don't succeed the whole year has been a waste. Or that their friends and supporters and family or sponsors are going to be judgmental of their performance.

 

[00:11:33] It's very important for me to have the right mindset and go into the race and saying OK I've had a great year of training with my dogs. I've enjoyed this year I've done what I've loved. I'm so fortunate to be able to spend my time mushing around the wilderness in Alaska with a bunch of sled dogs and be able to call that work. So the races are free. We're out here where I have fun. The year has already been a good year regardless of what happens the next eight days. And that is the only way that you can be free enough to make the right decisions. On Iditarod, you're going to have to make a decision at some point that you believe just cost you the race and it's the right thing to do right now for this team. And three days later you can add is the pivotal turning point in the race and you have to be willing to give up on your hopes of winning the race to be able to do what's right for the team. You do what's right for the team and that causes you to do well in the race.

 

Laura:

[00:12:27] I love the integrity that you have and just the way you come at this stuff. It's so good for. For every athlete in every sport and just in life in general. I mean this is wow! This is some good stuff. So I have to ask you since you are teammates that you're coaching don't exactly speak your language all the time. Like how do you? I mean I guess you just have to really learn each dog so well and like what they need and what their. I mean how do you do that?

 

Dallas:

[00:12:58] Yeah. I mean they don't speak my language but I like to think that I speak their language. I know it's you know them very well. For example beetle. He has raced many of my races with me I got him as a 2-year-old. He was on my first Iditarod winning team and raced with me the year before that. When we won the Yukon Quest which is kind of with other thousand-mile dog sled race I've run over thirty thousand miles with that dog. Now, this isn't that 60 miles an hour like your car. This is at 8-9 miles an hour. And for every hour of actual traveling, there's nearly an hour of time that we spend sleeping on the trail together or you know feeding the dogs plus all the time year round taking care of them in the kennel when we're not in serious training. So yes you notice everything. If your eyes are open you notice everything you see when they come out of their house and they look a little bit tired you know what they're feeling. If you're willing to feel what they're feeling so yeah you get to know him very well.

 

[00:13:58] But unlike people, if you're not looking for it they won't tell you. A human will tell you I'm tired. A human will tell you I'm hungry. I need to take it easier. A dog you know you've got to be watching for it and they want to do their best every day. So a lot of times they're mentally excited to go but you've got to be able to assess their physical side and say hey we're going to take it easy today. You know even though mentally you think you're ready to rock and roll it's time to back off.

 

Laura:

[00:14:27] Definitely. Now, on the race side of things because it's a long race. Are you seeing your competitors or are you guys all kind of spread out and you have no idea if you're in the lead or if you're in third? Like do you have kind of a grasp of where you are?

 

Dallas:

[00:14:44] A grasp. It's probably the right word for it. I'm not an accurate down to the second by any stretch of the imagination. There are about 20 checkpoints along the way on the Iditarod. That's the only place you're gonna get information when you come into those checkpoints. They'll have a print out maybe posted in the checkpoint or you can ask the checkers there you know, where am I? And what they'll have is the information of when other mushers arrive and depart. Now again you don't have to stop at the checkpoint so much or may go through a checkpoint and then go five miles down the trail and camp. So you have a feel for where you are and in the beginning there are so many mushers around because the race is still very compressed. By the time you get towards the end you know if you're in the lead you have three or four mushers around you that you're really kind of keeping an eye on. And you do start to pay attention to them in the last couple hundred miles where are they at. You know for me I'm trying to win as easily as possible how do I take the least amount of risk. I'm very comfortable being within minutes of a second place team as long as I have the stronger team. So that's my goal is to position myself with a stronger faster team and then keep my competition close.

 

Laura:

[00:15:57] Such a strategic race. That's really cool. Can you and I'm sure you've had many of these but can you give us an example of like a tough situation that you've had during one of your Iditarod races and like how you got through it?

 

Dallas:

[00:16:13] Sure. Well the first one that comes to mind was actually in the 2014 Iditarod was a very very fast and brutal race. Low very low snow conditions caused the race to be incredibly fast but it also caused the trail to be very rough. Generally we count on a lot of snow particularly crossing the Alaska Range as you go through those mountains. We count on a lot of snow to mitigate the terrain differences and that kind of mellows everything out. That particular year the trail had no snow. And as a musher we just got beat to pieces for a thousand miles. I bounced around on frozen dirt. Three stumps the whole works the sleds are designed to drive on dirt. I think any musher you talk to will identify the 2014 Iditarod as the toughest race they ever ran. Because of the high speed of the race and kind of my particular style of I'm generally a closing team I'm usually coming from behind. I was a little bit out of contention as far as winning it I felt in the last three hundred miles I went from a 10 hour deficit. Now you've got it down to a three hour deficit. I thought that was all the Colts were going to make it. Long story short we left the last checkpoint and I was in third place three hours behind first. No real hopes of catching up with them. And I was happy with a third place finish that year. It was a challenging race and the dogs had done exceptionally well. But instead of having the casual run to the finish the last 70 miles or so of just mushing through the hills and down the coast and into the city of nowhere the race finishes we got hit with one of the most intense storms anybody ever remembers on the Iditarod with wind gusts of up to 90 miles an hour. The dogs literally could not stand up in those gusts the wind. The first one that hit us it lay every single dog out on their side it flipped my sled over. And we were sliding sideways across the sea ice with no snow. The snow had blown away. We were on frozen ice and rocks and I kind of just hunker down until a gust of wind let up and then we took off again. Now the wind's only blowing 40 miles an hour. We made it about 100 yards in the next gust of wind counts. And so after getting knocked over for about an hour you start thinking we've got another 40 miles of this to go. There's no way we're gonna make it 40 miles. So you this is the time for what I call short term view. Now there are times that you need to be able to zoom out and look at the next 10 years or the next six months or the next six days or even the next six hours. But there are times that you only have to make it six seconds. All I can do is when this wind lets up when this gust of wind lets up I'm going to talk to these dogs in a calm way. I'm going to reassure them we're going to stand up and we're gonna make it 100 yards. And we're going to get hit with the next gust of wind. All I've got to do is take one more step. And you do that long enough and you make it 40 miles. So we struggled through the storm. Just one little shot at a time we kind of make a sprint when the gust of wind would let up and then we'd get wiped out when the gust came back. Long story short we did that for many hours finally pulled into the finish line and known only to find out that the two teams ahead of us one of them make it. They ended up getting rescued by snowmobiles. The other team had to hunker down at a shelter cabin along the way. So I went from entering that storm in third place three hours behind first to coming out crossing the finish line in first place and I actually did not know I had won the race until about two minutes after the finish. And then the next musher arrived somebody I figured had finished long before. So. There are times in life and in sports I think all you got to worry about is the next 10 seconds. What is the best thing that I do right now. Don't worry about what's going to happen tomorrow. What do I do right now. That is the right choice. That is the ethical choice that the right thing for my team. Take that step and have faith that that leads in the right direction.

 

Laura:

[00:20:26] I love this. You were just dropping three thumbs all over the place. I'm going to have to save this episode and listen to it over and over again when I'm having a hard time. Thank you for this. Now you have a book that you wrote too called Born To Mush. Now can you tell us about that?

 

Dallas:

[00:20:45] Yeah that's something I think that. Well I wrote that after we won the Iditarod in 2012. My sponsors were interested in doing that. It's something we had talked about. If we accomplished our goal of becoming the youngest person to win the Iditarod. But I didn't really feel right trying to author an autobiography or something at the age of 25. That seems a little premature to me so I consented to writing a book that would be a factual book for young adults with kind of the 10 to 14 age range in mind.

 

[00:21:20] However it was written in such a way that it's an enjoyable light read for an adult. It's not childish in nature it's just not complex either. So it's a light read it's a fun read for an adult and I think it resonates with some younger folks. I think it carries some things that I feel are truths that might be helpful at that phase in people's lives. So that's the book I've written and. Yeah. I hope the next one's written once I'm dead.

 

Laura:

[00:21:53] Okay well switching gears a little bit. You are also on a TV show called the ultimate survival Alaska. And there I think you run all three seasons right? Now, tell us about this show because it sounds kind of intense.

 

Dallas:

[00:22:05] That's correct. I was. That was actually a lot of fun. Yeah it was intense but it was a lot of fun. Shoot! I got to fly around and see all of Alaska on National Geographic's dime. I can't hardly complain. It doesn't matter if you don't get to or you have to survive in the wilderness that I've been doing that my whole life. So I got to see parts of Alaska in the summertime that I had never seen before. Most of my adventures in Alaska have taken place in the winter. So for example I was with that show that I got to see the Yukon River in the summer for the first time and I had mushed down the frozen Yukon river many times but I finally got to see it thawed. You got to build a bog raft and float the river so those very neat.

 

[00:22:52] It was. It was definitely a challenging competition in places. But I found that my lifestyle and I did ride musher definitely played to my. Definitely helped me out there. Most times that again you don't think about going to be out here for 50 days or 90 days or whatever the timeframe was. It's just that I was gonna make it till tomorrow. Tomorrow will be better. You know the delusional optimist is a great way to get what you are four times.

 

[00:23:25] Now there's one day at a time and it's it's incredible what you can accomplish like that you know for example the Iditarod is a thousand miles. Everybody who's ever won the Iditarod or finish the Iditarod has done so one step at a time. It's just one smart step after the next. And you do that long enough and you focus on a step you're taking now not three or four days from now. And pretty soon you look back at a pretty impressive string of good steps and that's all we're trying to do. To make one good decision at a time one smart step at a time. It's so easy to become overwhelmed when you look at it as a thousand mile race. No it's just one step at a time. Take each of those as best you can. Sometimes you make mistakes but tomorrow's a new day. And we'll have the opportunity to make a better start or to learn from our mistakes.

 

Laura:

[00:24:14] Love it. Now in 2017 you finish second to your biggest competitor your dad Mitch and he's also a three time champion. He's the oldest in history. You're the youngest he's the oldest and he is 57. So I'm guessing you guys aren't competitive at all.

 

Dallas:

[00:24:34] Bitterly competitive in a very good way. My dad is my best friend but I think it's I think it's really become some very honest competition we're just like oh how do I say this because it's my dad. Because I care about him. It does two things. One I know him very well. You know for many years I was by his side helping him train his team. I was kind of his main handler or trainer. The year that he won I did run for his first time in 2004 and I took a lot of personal pride in that team and what they accomplished. So he'd been so closely involved both my older brother had gone off to college and I was the handler. By knowing him so well I know his flaws if you will not to call him flaws but I know where he is likely to make mistakes his weaknesses. So it's really tough because you don't want to prey on that necessarily. But ultimately at the bottom of it all at the end of the day it teaches you to race and compete against people and still care about them and love them.

 

[00:25:41] I'm not racing against my dad. Both me and my dad are racing against the trail. We're racing against our own issues. We're trying to develop our best team. We're each trying to do the best we possibly can. And yeah we fight tooth and nail at the end of that race 2016. We pushed each other hard. I ended up winning that one but by a very narrow margin only about 40 minutes between us. But when it was all said and done I think 3rd place came in 7 hours later. Because we were pushing each other. Because we were driving each other to be the best version of ourselves to do the best we could. It made both of us excel and that's what competition is for. In my mind the purpose of competition is that when we see somebody else accomplish something. When we see them lift a bigger weight than we've ever been able to lift or run a faster mile than we've been able to do. We know that that is humanly possible. We know it is possible for us to dream of that and then ultimately achieve that. The point of competition is to push ourselves to be better not to try to break down the other one to succeed over them but to make us be better.

 

Laura:

[00:26:49] Well so since you helped your dad when you were growing up. Do you have all his secrets and you've just added on to it or is he now trying to find out your secrets?

 

Dallas:

[00:27:00] Oh very very much so. You know we have a good friendly rivalry. I have. My mentality it's always been one of you know I've always worked on creating and approving and developing. And I think I'm a little more free spirited in trying new things and developing. We put a lot of our energy into research and development. Everything from training tactics to the equipment we use. Everything we're trying to expand and to grow. My dad's strength is one he has some very good dogs genetically he's very good at producing the dogs. He's very good at running a large kennel. His kennel is quite a lot larger than mine so he's generally working with more potential athletes than I am. I think my strength is more in development. So I have fewer top top notch dogs but I think I can develop them farther. So we both have our strengths and weaknesses. We both learn from each other. But I think just by nature of age when I got into this seriously a 20 something years old I think that's a time in your life that you are looking to do things differently. Whereas my dad at that time was 50 something when he was beginning to be more in a pattern or routine. And I think my racing and being successful in racing forced him to break that pattern and continue to grow rather than kind of settle into a day to day routine and keep doing the same thing over and over.

 

[00:28:24] So I think we have certainly both been helpful. I think how we race now because racing has changed. I'm not using the same specific tactics or anything like that that my dad used when he was racing earlier. But what he did teach me was how to learn, how to work, how to be a good human. And that's something that follows you everywhere. So yes I will forever be grateful for the childhood that I had. I didn't like it at the time. At the time I felt like I was free labor. We worked very hard but you know he taught me the more valuable things that follow you through life beyond sports. And the actual sport I think my dad races more now like money than vice versa. His style more mirrors mine than the other way around as well.

 

Laura:

[00:29:09] Well it's very cool. I love it. Well after this very exciting competition with you and your dad in 2017. Unfortunately four of your 16 dog team tested positive. And the circumstances surrounding that test have led some to believe that it was accidental. Or as you've claimed an intentional attempt to sabotage by an outside party. And I know you protested at this past year by withdrawing from the Iditarod. So what what kind of has happened from this? And how have you I guess you know kept that positive attitude that you are so good at? And how have you kind of moved forward and moved on?

 

Dallas:

[00:29:51] Yeah. I know that's been probably one of the toughest challenges of my life is been dealing with this issue specifically. And the way that it was rolled out was not ideal. Let's put it that way. So there was a lot of kind of funny business going on in there for sure. We run completely holistic kennel. I mean I spent thousands of dollars on mineral supplementation all of our medical care is homeopathic and we've major on eastern medicine. Obviously if a dog eat something you know a rock that's too big to make it through their system. I am very grateful for Western medicine a veterinarian that'll cut in there and remove the rock.

 

[00:30:36] But as far as an athlete you know our focus always been about creating the healthiest possible dog. That's setting them up for success and it starts at day one. Everything from mental health you know being an active well acclimated puppy all the way to being a healthy dog that able to compete in a thousand mile race. So it was a really strange thing partially because I always conducted myself on a principle basis. We try not to look at well this decision affect me positively or negatively in the next 10 minutes. But what kind of person do I want to be in that broader question. And you know ethics is at the core of everything we do. So to get you know an accusation like that is it completely undermines. Everything you've done you know 10 years previously and everything that I value.

 

[00:31:26] So it was. I took it very personally quite frankly. It's impossible to know what did happen but I can tell you what didn't happen. And that is nobody in my team or bowl list first of all had access to the drugs that were there as an opiate. That's it actually acts as a sedative and a dog. It was given two to four hours prior to a guaranteed mandatory drug test and it was given also inversely two to four hours after the finish of the race. So when you look at this information it's pretty clear that however the drug got into the system it sure as heck wasn't by the musher. After the race was over before a guaranteed drug test. It's actually the only guaranteed drug test in the entire race is every musher in the top 20 is tested at the finish of the race.

 

[00:32:14] So anyway it's been really challenging for me partially because it wasn't acknowledged that information. It was rolled out in such a way that it looked to all the casual observers that oh the musher drug their dogs. But when you actually look at the information it's completely ridiculous that somebody is going to give their own dog a sedative two hours after they finish the race. And you know right before a mandatory drug test. So fortunately for me it was such a high dose. As such an obscure time or such a you know obvious time that it's going to cause a five positive tests that for the people in Alaska to follow the race and know me personally especially. It was never really a question of whether or not we gave it to the dog. But I think that's going to be clarified here shortly.

 

[00:33:03] It's without a doubt the toughest two years of my life. Just dealing with the you know the assumption. Of course every athlete that has a positive test the first thing is oh it wasn't me. Well what do you do when it really wasn't you. I mean it's it makes it so challenging. Well fortunately 10 years in this sport the competitors that knew me as soon as my name was combined with the positive test people said oh we know that Dallas wouldn't have done that. And I fortunately had the support of my peers and competitors throughout this whole thing. That's been. Yeah. That's been majorly helpful but I guess that's the value of conducting yourself in an ethical way day to day. As you never know when that Curveball is going to hit you and people in it look at what they know about USA does this fit or not. And in this case they said that doesn't fit. This doesn't add up. So that was kind of the saving grace there.

 

Laura:

[00:33:57] So do you think you'll race the Iditarod again?

 

Dallas:

[00:34:00] I do think that I will be back to the race once huge improvement that Iditarod has implemented since this incident. Is they've improved the security around the race big time. So now we have live cameras or cameras in the gnome dog yard so once the dogs finish the race they're actually being observed and watched until they are drug tested which is very important. The food bags that we send out for the race are out of the mushers control from about 3 weeks 2-3 weeks prior to the race's start. So they've now added some tamper proof seals to those. These were all things that were put in effect after that incident in 2017. So they've really started to crank up the security of the food that the dogs are eating along the way. And then because it is an eight day race and I have no support team out there I have to sleep. So when I'm sleeping who's watching my dogs? Who's making sure that they're not being tampered with? And the Iditarod is implementing those cameras and the checkpoints and things like that to help. You know Help the mush to make sure teams are secure. So yeah. I will definitely be back to the Iditarod. And I'm very excited about the changes. Unfortunately took in an incident like this to cause those changes.

 

Laura:

[00:35:11] At least like you said there is some positive momentum moving forward and that's always a good thing. Now you had another great quote because you apparently say a lot of things that I like. And this is about the Iditarod I think it's just good for anything and any athlete in any sport. You said as soon as I find myself racing for one more win or one more record I'm doing it for the wrong reasons. And that's the time we need a change of scenery. So what are your reasons? What does push you and motivate you? Like what are the right reasons that you keep going?

 

Dallas:

[00:35:43] I think the right reasons is when you can sit here and say you know there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. And now I know as both a human athlete and now you know I say coaching a team of dogs it's still at fairly physical job. Could you travel a thousand miles by dog sled? It's still a fairly physical job but not it's in a different way than as a wrestler as a wrestler you had a very high cardio intense nine minute match. Now it's you know prolonged agony for nine days. So it's a little bit different.

 

[00:36:16] But you've got to love the pure joy of doing that. You have to love every single day of this. And I think this goes back to what we talked about before. And we're saying you this is just what we do. The race is a free role. The training. The season. That's the part you have to love. Otherwise you will find yourself where you feel that you suffered through all this conditioning. Suffered through all this training can now have your glory moment on the competition. You have to love the training. You have to love the lifestyle. And then you can be free enough in the competition to perform at your highest as soon as you put undue pressure on competition day.

 

[00:36:55] It's not gonna help you perform. It's not gonna help you do better by quite frankly having fear which is what it is. When you have a lot of anxiety on game day a lot of times it is fear of non fear or non-performance or fear of failure. So by being content and happy with the lifestyle you live by feeling like I love training. I love conditioning. I love getting better at my sport. I love growing. It's helping me grow as a person. I think that allows us to be free enough to say no. Yeah. It's race day. We'll see what happens. We'll do our best. That's the only promise I'm gonna make. But if I feel like I'm going into the training season and planning to suffer through the next six months of training so that I get to race. That's not a good reason to race. I'm going to go to the next six months because this is what I love doing with my dogs and because I love doing that. I will also get to run the race. But my value as a human is not gonna be determined by the next nine days or by this event. That's not the purpose. I get to choose that I'm gonna retain that power to myself by doing what I love every single day. Not just on game day but every day. I love doing this.

 

Laura:

[00:38:06] I would tell you to drop the mic but I do have like two more questions. OK. I want to know what you want to be remembered for?

 

Dallas:

[00:38:16] I think that's a question for when I'm 99 years old and have nothing better to do. And I'm sitting on my rocking chair on the porch then I'll think about that. That also incidentally is that is the time to start counting records and counting accomplishments. You know that's right now all we focus on is the next day and I think. I don't know about what you want to be remembered for but I do know how I want to conduct myself on a daily basis. And I think that's the best we can hope for. I want to make decisions so that I can be proud of. I want to be able to look back and say yeah I made that call. Yes I did that action. And be proud of that.

 

[00:38:57] We get to decide who we are every single day, every hour, every minute. We decide who we are by the choices we made. And sometimes those are tough choices. Sometimes the you know the outcome that we anticipate is very scary.

 

Laura:

[00:39:14] Awesome. Well how can we find your book? Get your book? Follow you on social media? Follow all your next great racing adventures? How can we keep up with you?

 

Dallas:

[00:39:23] Dallas Seavey on facebook. Dallasseavey.comon that world wide web. Otherwise you could write me a letter.

 

Laura:

[00:39:33] Awesome. Awesome. Well Dallas thank you so much for taking the time to do this. You are an absolute inspiration. I love. I love your integrity. I love the way you think. I love your focus on your positivity and your optimism and just taking everything one step at a time. It's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that with us.

 

[00:39:51] Thank you to Dallas for sharing with us on today's show. His story about surviving the wind storms during that race was incredible. The advice to take things one step at a time. It's so profound. There can be times when our finish line in life seems so far away and the obstacles are mounting all around us and it's just overwhelming. But if we can focus in on just that very next step that we need to take. Step by step will begin to cover the distance without even realizing it. Be sure to check out more from Dallas on his Web site and social media outlets which you can find in the show notes or at HopeSports.org/podcast. And today I wanna encourage you to take that next step in your life toward your goals. No matter how impossible they may seem. Step by step you can get there too. Make sure to tune in next week as we're joined by Mexican cyclist Ingrid Drexel who fell into the sport at a young age but has made quite a name for herself and her country in the international cycling circuit. Be sure to subscribe wherever you listen see it don't miss a thing. And please leave us a review because those great reviews that you're giving us they help us continue to bring awesome guests on this show. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra in simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please visit Hopesports.org

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About This Episode

Growing up in Texas, Clint Gresham knew that football was life. It rooted friendships, reputations, and communities. His father played football at the University of Texas and, even at age ten, he vividly remembers the surge of energy when he first walked into the stadium of the Texas Longhorns. In middle school he transferred from a small, private school to the local public school with the hopes of playing with a bigger team. It wasn’t until high school, however, that he found his niche as a long-snapper. He excelled at this specialized position and opportunities to play collegiate football began popping up. At that point, he never considered playing in the NFL, but one thing led to another and there he found himself. As Clint likes to say, “football seemed to happen to me.”

In 2010, Gresham was the only long snapper invited to the NFL combine and he began to realize that he had a real shot at playing professionally. Initially drafted by the Saints, he only lasted three-months on the team before being released. He packed his bags and drove back to Texas, fully convinced that his professional career was over. Soon after, however, he got a call from the Seattle Seahawks and was on a plane to his next team. Clint shares that his first few months in the NFL were incredibly lonely. Paying rent month to month, living in a new city, and unsure how long his contract would last were all difficult things to deal with. Despite the initial insecurity, the 2012-2015 years with the Seahawks picked up speed and went by like a blur. The team picked up momentum, made the playoffs, and Gresham soon found himself standing on the field for Super Bowl XLVIII.

The Seahawks entered as underdogs to the Denver Broncos, yet walked away Champions. Gresham shares that he and his teammates waited months for the victory to “sink in,” but soon realized that “what we were actually waiting for was for it to make us happy.” When it hadn’t made him happy, Clint found himself afraid because he had made winning the Super Bowl his life’s work - and it still wasn’t enough. It really struck him that “we are all chasing a Super Bowl in some capacity”, realizing that without something else giving him value and identity he would never be satisfied.

This revelation would be key the following year as he found himself standing, yet again, on the field for Super Bowl XLVIIII. Unfortunately, though, an interception thrown in the endzone on the final play of the game would leave the Seahawks shocked and devastated. No one saw that coming. Clint reflects on the locker room after that game when the coaches had very little words to share and, instead, turned to him to pray for the team. The weight of the game, the anticipation, and the blow of the loss left him nearly speechless - he just wanted to relieve everyone of the pain of disappointment. But it was in that moment that he had a revelation: too often he was using his faith in God as an “out” for uncomfortable experiences. He realized that rather than allowing ourselves to feel the pain, we try to relieve it through external means, which for many means some sort of addiction or distortion. Although he wanted to pray the pain away, he knew that each player on the team would need to face that loss, accept it, and move on.

With the loss behind him, Clint took another three year contract with the Seahawks, but was released only one year into it. He shares that, in retrospect, he felt “battle fatigue” from the emotional rollercoaster of his career. He had an intense few years and even though he didn’t want to admit it, he needed a break. He kept in shape, though, as he wanted to be prepared for a call back to the NFL. And that call did come… the day after he learned that he had torn a muscle and wouldn’t be able to play. The decision had been made already for him to hang up his cleats and be done and he turned down the offer.

Though disappointed with ending his career, Gresham and his wife, Matti, looked forward to returning to their home state of Texas. He met Matti his first year in Seattle as a Young Life leader in the community. On a weekly basis he mentored around 100 middle and high school students through this Christian organization. As they got settled in Texas, he took the opportunity to get an MRI by an organization that grants brain scans to retired football players in hopes to raise awareness and treatment for concussions. For Clint, this scan would be critical as doctors discovered a tumor in a gland behind his ear. He sat in the waiting room with his wife, who was six months pregnant, fearing for the worst. Though the biopsy came back benign, there was an urgency to get the tumor removed. He underwent surgery just one week before his daughter was due and after the procedure learned that it was one of the most difficult and complicated tumor removals that the specialist had ever performed. The road to recovery wasn’t easy, either. While his wife was in labor to deliver their daughter, Clint was in the ER a few floors away being treated for an infection.

Thankfully he made it for her delivery and says that, although it’s cliche, his daughter has changed his life completely. Today he enjoys being a father and sharing his journey with others. He released his book, Becoming, in hopes of helping others through their own journeys of self-discovery. Working through his own reckoning after retirement, he sees others struggling with wondering “is this really all there is.” This book, and its corresponding workbook, help people to develop positive affirmations that support a healthy identity and Biblical worldview. Clint is passionate about taking what he has learned and developing practical applications for Biblical principles for living, especially for young people.

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Laura:

[00:00:04] Welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast where each week athletes share about on field experiences that shape their careers in the off-field moments that bring them purpose. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. This week you were in for a real treat as we have Super Bowl champion Clint Gresham joining us. As a former Seattle Seahawks long snapper. Clint played him back to back Super Bowls and he shares about how he had to come to grips with his unexpected reactions to both victory and defeat. He has such a balanced and well-rounded perspective that has developed out of some pretty incredible highs and devastating lows. It's definitely a perspective that I needed to hear and I'm excited for you to discover as well. So without further ado here is his impactful story.

 

[00:00:51] Clint Gresham Thank you so much for being on the hope sports podcast today.

 

Clint:

[00:00:55] Yeah. Thank you for having me.

 

Laura:

[00:00:57] Now for those of us who don't know how awesome you are. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how you got your start in football?

 

Clint:

[00:01:04] Yeah. So I grew up in Texas and which meant that if I wanted to have friends I had to play football. That's the thing to do in Texas. And my dad played football at the University of Texas back in the 70s and he played with a guy named Earl Campbell who was an absolute legend in college and professionally. And I remember being a kid and going to UT football camps and go into games when I was a kid and just being so overwhelmed at the magnitude of what these guys were doing. And.

 

Laura:

[00:01:40] That registered for you that young like you understood the magnitude of it?

 

Clint:

[00:01:45] Well going into their Royal Stadium in Austin and there are 80,000 people there and I'm 10 years old. I mean it was just an overwhelming experience and I had a couple of times where I had met a couple of the Longhorn football players. And so I just I fell in love with the game and ended up transferring to a public school so that I could play football and 7th and 8th grade. Because my private Christian school we didn't have football. And yeah it was kind of just one of those things that as I went I started to love it more and more and. I think a lot of it is I felt like football happened to me. I was just kind of in the right place at the right time and I kind of look around and it's like now all of a sudden I'm playing professionally and playing in a couple of Super Bowls and it was all kind of a blur. But I feel really really thankful for everything that I've picked up along the way.

 

Laura:

[00:02:45] Yeah. And for people who aren't familiar with how big football is in Texas, I'm a Texas girl and I mean there's a Texas high school football magazine. So it is a big deal here. I get that.

 

Clint:

[00:02:57] Yeah. There's a high school just up the road from us in Allen, Texas. And they've got like a 90 million dollar stadium like for a High School.

 

Laura:

[00:03:05] For the high school? Holy cow! Wow!

 

Clint:

[00:03:07] Yeah. So.

 

Laura:

[00:03:10] So Okay.

 

Clint:

[00:03:10] That’s not a joke.

 

Laura:

[00:03:11] No. It's definitely not a joke. Now. So those awesome overwhelming early days in the Big Utah stadium and hook them for all our Austin people out there and a Longhorn also. Did you? I mean from that point. Did you dream of being in the NFL or it was just playing football and that's what you wanted to do?

 

Clint:

[00:03:31] I think every kid dream but every boy dreams of being in the NFL just like every kid wants to be an astronaut. That thing. I wanted to play football in college and I don't know if I ever really thought past that and once I got into high school I started to kind of figure out my niche. I was a long snapper so I realized I was pretty good at that. In my times were comparable to professional players. And I think that I thought that I could have a shot once I got into high school. And was kind of surprised that it actually worked out.

 

 

Laura:

[00:04:13] So how did it actually play out? Like how did you land that spot in the NFL? And was that kind of everything you had hoped it would be?

 

Clint:

[00:04:21] I was the only long snapper invited to the NFL scouting combine in 2010. And I remember thinking that that was like pretty incredible. Like obviously opportunity but just thinking like wow like they couldn't find another guy to come and compete with me like I must have a shot of this. And my rookie year was incredibly incredibly hard. I was living by myself and kind of like a month to month apartment situation. I started my career with the Saints and I was only there for three months and one day in a training camp. I got released and I thought that my football career was over. And I drive back to Fort Worth, Texas back to where I was living at the time. And then the Seahawks called me and told me they'd picked up my contract and so I flew out to Seattle and was very very alone when I was out there.

 

And I think I was not ready for what that was gonna look like. I had some community when I was in college but as far as like was it everything that I dreamed of I would say no. I think that it's pretty rare that somebody gets their dream and thinks that this is everything that I thought it was going to be because usually, it's not. When we won Super Bowl 48 it was a good six months that all of us were saying I keep waiting for it to sink in that we won the Super Bowl. And that year when we beat the Broncos we beat them 43 to 8. I mean just absolutely crushed them and everybody had the Broncos pick to win. And we just took them apart. But for 6 months we all kept saying I keep waiting for it to sink in that we won the Super Bowl and I realized what all of us meant by that was not. I keep waiting for it to sink in but I keep waiting for this thing to make me happy like I thought it would. And it hasn't. And now I'm actually kind of scared because I've made this my life's pursuit.

 

[00:06:32] So. All of us here are chasing a Super Bowl in some capacity. I mean maybe if you're a sales person I want to get this many sales or whatever your dream or goal is. I think that's one thing that I picked up when I was playing with that one. We never really talked about wins and losses like the night before Super Bowl 48 and Super Bowl 49 really played against the Patriots. We didn't even talk about the other team. We talked about things that we could control like our effort of preparation, enthusiasm, and by focusing on the things that we could control the outcome sort of taking care of themselves. And so I always encourage people to focus on the process. Focus on those kinds of things because to try and gather your sense of joy and happiness to a particular outcome is either going to blow you apart if you don't get it or it's going to fill you with so much zeal. That it's like a drug that you're not going to have any drive once you achieve it. So yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:07:38] Mm-hmm. Such good wisdom. Such good advice and wisdom. I love that. Well, and so you kind of like just leading into the next thing I was gonna ask you is you won Super Bowl 48. And I know you wrote a really good blog post about what that was like and what it taught you about work ethic. And then the next year was a totally different outcome. Can you kind of take us through the extremes of both of those? And what that was like and what went through your head? And kind of like you mentioned you guys were asking for 6 months like when's it going to sink in. And then you had to get back up and do it again. So can you kind of take us through that whole like two seasons?

 

Clint:

[00:08:21] Yeah. It was a never ending ride. I mean I feel like the 2012 season we drafted Russell Wilson and we end up going to the playoffs for the first time and I think like 5 seasons or something. And that season all the way through like the 2015 season just felt like one long season. Because 2012 led in 2013 we end up going to the Super Bowl we win the Super Bowl and then all the stuff that comes with winning the Super Bowl. I mean you're talked about everywhere.

 

Laura:

[00:09:00] So there's a big trade too. Right? Like kind of all the crazy things. Right?

 

Clint:

[00:09:04] Oh yeah. Yeah. The parade was insane. We had a million people in downtown Seattle. It was like 35 degrees outside and it was a bizarre experience. We were driving on these giant military tracks. And I remember I was standing on top of the roof of one of these military trucks and I'm like 15 feet off the ground. And we pull up to this intersection and you can see down the road like going all four directions and it's like three blocks deep. It's just a sea of people. And it's bizarre.

 

[00:09:43] And so like everything that came with that was absolutely overwhelming and then going into the next season we start off to remember what we started off. I know that we didn't start off that season well but we end up making it back to the Super Bowl and we're playing against the Patriots. We're on the one-yard line we're about to win back to back Super Bowls. And then we throw an interception and we lose the game in the end zone. And it was such a just debilitating moment. I remember I didn't even see it happen when the interception was thrown. And when I saw realized what had happened I literally fell to the ground because it was just like you feel so much weight like the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. But then just the weight of the previous several seasons. And I remember we walk into the locker room and some guys are not handling it well and our head coach says a couple of words to the team. Then he looks at me and he's like okay Gresh. Go ahead and pray for us now.

 

[00:10:47] And I'm completely at a loss for words like oh my gosh like what can I possibly say here that's going to make this moment not be painful. And I kind of felt like the internal pressure of. I'm trying to relieve everyone from this sense of pain. And in retrospect, I think that that thought is really profound because like the second time we start running from our pain is usually when we get addicted to something? That's what addiction is all about. Like you feel something uncomfortable on the inside of you. So you looked at something external to make that pain go away. And really what we need to do at that moment was just accept it and feel it and not try and run from it. Just learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable because that's the only way that we grow. And just personally like I had realized that that’s kind of a pattern in my life. And it kind of used God as this escape of I'm just gonna pray the pain away. And what I really wanna do is just learn how to be OK with it and have the courage to deal with it because it's only there that we grow and become stronger. So it was kind of a profound learning moment for me and I think for our team as well so I have to ask you I mean what did what did you say what did you pray said Jesus please curse the Patriots.

 

Laura:

[00:12:09] So, I have to ask you. I mean what did what did you say? What did you pray?

 

Clint:

[00:12:14] I said Jesus please curse the Patriots. I don't know. I blacked out. I have no idea what I said. I'm sure it was not a very eloquent prayer. But it was yeah just that we would learn from this and move on. But you know it's like anything that you say it's not gonna really make it go away. So yeah. Being comfortable with the uncomfortable is really. That's the sweet spot. If I can just be okay with it man you're unstoppable on that faith.

 

Laura:

[00:12:53] So well said. So well said. Well now after that I know the Seahawks sign you to a 3-year contract but you were released after just a year. Did you kind of see that coming? Or was that a surprise? And how did you deal with that?

 

Clint:

[00:13:10] I didn't have a great season and the 2015 season. Like I mentioned earlier it just felt like 2012 to 2015 was just one long season and. You know people end up getting battle fatigue or just like I can't do this another day. And I think that that was starting to happen with me where I felt like I just couldn't do anything to really get to the place that I was expected to be. Looking back I can see that pretty clearly at the moment it was totally surprising. And I kind of thought that they were gonna be bringing me back and didn't really end up happening. I actually ended up getting a call from them right at the end of the season. Because their long snapper went on I R and they needed somebody to come and play for them for the playoff game against the Lions. And I had actually found out the day before that I had torn my labrum in my shoulder. And was gonna be able to take them up on that. And so, that was really challenging because I had been stand ready and tried to be prepared for that opportunity because I felt like it was gonna be inevitable. But yeah. The Lords seem to have closed that door and just had to trust him through that.

 

Laura:

[00:14:44] Well, so what point in all of this did you meet your sweet wife Maddie?

 

Clint:

[00:14:49] We met. That was in 2012 was the first time that we met. We were both Young Life leaders and Young Life was a huge part of who I was when I was playing football up in Seattle. I had a house up there and we had meetings every week and it was right next to the high school. And so Young Life is a ministry for high school kids and middle school kids. And we would probably have like 100 kids a week come into our house for Bible study or run my club and refuge a fellow leader.

 

[00:15:28] Yeah it was. That was awesome kind of just getting to grow together. Like while we were both doing Young Life and. I think the best thing about it was that the first time I met her I saw her from across the room and I just see this tall beautiful brunette and she's talking the was Texan accent. I'm like oh my goodness! I gonna have that girl. And come to find out she’s from Texas also. Like what are you doing up here? Well, she grew up in Lubbock and so I found the Texas gal up in Seattle. So it made moving back to Texas once my football career was over. A pretty easy decision.

 

Laura:

[00:16:06] That's awesome. I love it. Well so now the NFL Players Association they have a new program called The Trust. Where they do a brain and body scan and it was launched to help ex-players with their health after football. And I think just this past May right? You decided to take advantage of that. What did they find?

 

Clint:

[00:16:27] Yes. I kind of felt this bump like behind my ear for a while and I'd ask the doctor about it and he said it was just a cyst or something and I just couldn’t think about it. And I started to notice kind of cognitive things that I thought might have been related to concussions or something. And so I went and I did this thing and they took an MRI of my head. And I'm sitting in this chair looking at the computer screen and she shows the MRI. And we find this huge mass that's right where that little bump was. And I'm looking at this thing thinking what the heck is that? And the doctor looks at me and she kind of panics for a second. She's like I need to go get the other doctor and she storms out of the room and I'm sitting there with my 6 months pregnant wife thinking, oh my gosh I've got brain cancer or something.

 

[00:17:26] I have no idea. And doctor comes back in and he kind of calms us down. He says well we want to do a biopsy and just check out what it was. And the biopsy came back benign which we are really thankful of. And the doctor kind of said Hey like you need to get this removed at some point. No pressure kind of do it when whenever. And kind of forgot about it at that point. And when we got back to Texas I had reached out to a doctor to just have him check it out. The doctors that they referred me to. He had a little bit more urgency about it and she was saying hey we should get this removed left untreated this particular kind of tumor which was in my carotid glands. So thankfully it had not metastasized and gotten into my brain. He said that this particular kind of tumor can get bad really fast. So we end up removing it and we had it removed a week before our little girl was born.

 

Laura:

[00:18:37] A week before? Oh my goodness!

 

Clint:

[00:18:38] A week before. Yeah. I had woken up after the surgery the doctor said that was one of the most difficult tumors I've ever had to remove. The tumor was completely wrapped around your facial nerve. So there was a very high risk of having facial paralysis. And it's like all you need is a little bit of facial paralysis to feel insecure. Right?

 

Laura:

Right.

 

Clint:

[00:19:05] Like just a little bit to just be conscious of it all the time. And so, thankfully he got that all removed. But it was it was a terrifying experience. I mean you know you hear the word tumor and you go to the worst case scenario. And here I am a week before our little girl is about to be born and you can just go to a scary place and thankfully I have.

 

Laura:

[00:19:30] How do you not go to the scary place? Like how did your wife handle all of this? I cannot imagine you have a kid your husband's undergoing brain surgery which I'm sure in the most mundane brain surgery is not safe you know.

 

Clint:

[00:19:44] And thankfully it wasn't brain surgery. They didn't have to get into my skull. It was on the outside of my skull thankfully. But just the same like it's still terrifying. It's still a tumor. It's still you know the possibility of cancer and all of that. And actually, the day that my wife went into labor we were in the hospital that night. And I found out that the two that I. Well I'll say I started to notice some pain on my surgery site. And so I went. I talked to the nurse and I said Hey can you just take a look at this thing? This is. I had this surgery done last week and she looks at issues like I think that looks infected you should go to theE.R. to have it looked at. And so my wife was asleep at the time and because we were gonna be going into labor the next day. And I was just going to try and sneak down there because I didn't want to scare her.

 

[00:20:46] And the doctor looks at it and sure enough the surgery side got infected. And so I'm like laying on my back and I've got an IV on my arm of antibiotics. And are giving me morphine because I was on a ton of pain. And then probably 30 minutes after I left to go down there my wife text me. She says I'm going into labor right now. Where are you?

 

Laura:

[00:21:09] Oh my goodness.

 

Clint:

[00:21:11] I'm like well I'm just out walking around and like I was trying to not tell her what was happening. And finally, after you know an hour or so I had to tell her like hey this thing kind of got a little scary. I'll be up as soon as I can and thankfully got everything covered and was able to be there for the delivery. But it was an intense night for sure.

 

Laura:

[00:21:35] Man I cannot even imagine. Yes from both of your perspectives. At least you both weren't on the hospital bed together in the same room. Just not. You can't make up stories that good. So how is your little baby now?

 

Clint:

[00:21:51] She's amazing and has tapped into a part of my soul I didn't even know I had. It's been the best! Has totally changed like who I am and how I see God and I see the world. I remember my parents saying like something happens to you when you have a kid. And you know when you're a kid and a young adult you hear cliches like that all the time. And you kind of roll your eyes at it and then it happens to you. And it's all of a sudden everything makes sense and it's been beautiful and we've loved it. It brought our family together. Brought my wife and I closer. And yeah we wouldn't change a thing. She's sleeping well. Her life is good.

 

Laura:

[00:22:50] Congratulations! That is so so awesome. Being a parent is definitely I think the best thing on the planet.

 

Clint:

[00:22:57] Yeah. No kidding.

 

Laura:

[00:22:59] So today. Now you are an international speaker and the best selling author. I would love for you to tell us about your book Becoming Loving The Process To Wholeness. Because I'm itching to get it. And I want the workbook and I want the I-talk. Like please tell us about all of these things that you've created? Because now I think they're so so good.

 

Clint:

[00:23:19] Yeah. So I started writing the book shortly after I'd gotten released. And the reason that I chose the word Becoming because that word is an adjective and it's also a verb. We are all becoming something. But to be becoming is to be attractive. And so what does that look like to like who you are when you haven't become the person you feel like you're supposed to be. And I think all of us can find us in that place of feeling frustrated about how much we have in front of us. And we see everybody's kind of perfectly manicured versions of their lives on social media. And we compare everybody else's highlight reel to the entirety of our lives. And it can be frustrating like I can find myself in that place. And so the book helps people embrace the process build their life on an identity that can't be taken away from you. Because ultimately anything that we place our sense of wars and that can be taken away whether it's wealth or status or whatever it is it's gonna create a very fragile life. And when I look at people that I have played with I mean all of us got to the top. I mean there's no higher that you can get. And then when you look at the statistics of ex NFL players and I would say it's even broader than NFL players. I mean ex-athletes. I mean people who have gotten to the top and have made it their life's pursuit. Once they're done with that there can be this reckoning that happens where is this really all that there is. And I went through that like even knowing that I could say or preach a message that my identity is not in football. My identity is and who God says that I am inevitably any of us are going to put some of our sense of worth in what we do. It's just that's just how it is.

 

[00:25:23] And so the book will help guard people from that. Because it's one of those things that we don't realize that we're doing it and we assume that we're OK until it happens. And I feel thankful because I was kind of forced into OK who am I really 30 years before a lot of my peers? So it kind of just gave me a unique perspective about life and yeah there's a workbook that goes along with it. And then I talk cards that I created there biblically based acclimation to train our self so that we think like God thinks and see our situation as God sees it. So this deck of 52 cards and on one side is an affirmation. And the other side is the scripture that supports that truth and I'm looking at one of these right now says I let others make mistakes. And on the other side of it is from the message version that's Matthew 17 says don't pick on people, jump on their failures, or criticize their faults unless of course you want the same treatment.

 

[00:26:30] So I am OK giving people Grace because I also wanna have grace. And so it's just a practical way to get the principles of the world into our hearts so that we can live from those principles. And I've realized that they're really helpful with teaching kids kind of what's going on behind scripture because I think it's great to memorize scripture. What's more important is to have this scripture inside of us so that it actually affects our lives. And you know like I don't want the words but I want change in my life. So yeah. That’s all.

 

Laura:

[00:27:06] That is awesome. Well yes. And please tell us where can we get our copy? Because as soon as we get off of this interview I'm getting my copy. So where can we go to get a copy of Becoming and where else can we follow you online?

 

Clint:

[00:27:19] Clintgresham.com is my website where people can pick up my stuff from my blog or book for opportunities and seeking events. And I want Instagram Facebook and Twitter and all that stuff. So. I’m pretty easy to find out there @gresh49.

 

Laura:

[00:27:41] Awesome. Well thank you Clint so much for being on today and we are just excited to continue to follow your journey and learn from all of your wisdom.

 

Clint:

[00:27:49] Yeah. Thank you for having me.

 

Laura:

[00:27:53] Thanks to Clint for joining me on today's episode. I love his advice to focus on the pieces of our journey that we can control. Clearly, that perspective carried him through some incredibly intense experiences. And although we might not all be prepping for a Super Bowl there are challenges that we all have to walk through and like he phrased so perfectly. We can't tether ourselves to the outcome. Check out more from Clint on his awesome blog which I love along with his book and web site. All of those details you can find in the show notes in hopesports.org where you can find all of our past conversations. On the next episode, we have 4 times Iditarod champion Dallas Seavey sharing about what it was like to become the youngest person ever to win that event. You won't want to miss it. So be sure to subscribe wherever you listen. And please leave us a review because those reviews help us continue to get awesome guests on this show to keep inspiring you. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and similar media.

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About This Episode

A farm in rural Canada doesn’t exactly seem like the perfect breeding ground for a world class water skier (or two!). But a lot of digging, water, and a cow pasture would become a man-made lake large enough for a speed boat, skis, and the start of a legendary career for Ryan Dodd. At age 10, he began skiing recreationally with his father and grandfather in the water reserve that they kept for their cattle and it quickly became clear that he had the talent to excel. Growing up in a family with a very successful horse-trainer for a mother and businessman for a father, Dodd understood the value of a strong work ethic and thrived on the pressure to also make something of his career.

Dodd was a rising star in his sport when a night of celebrating took a sharp turn for the worst. It was his “first and absolutely last bar fight,” and he woke up not recalling exactly what had happened. Thinking he was just a bit beaten up, Ryan got on a plane and flew home. Upon landing, however, he realized that his injuries were far worse than he had originally believed. Upon rushing him to the ER, doctors discovered that he had a skull fracture and bleeding in three places in his brain -- an injury so severe that he was lucky to be alive after not seeking immediate medical attention. He stayed at the hospital until the bleeding stopped and narrowing avoided surgery, but the road to recovery would be long. Dodd was required to lay flat in the dark for three months to allow his brain to fully heal. He wasn’t allowed to go outside, have caffeine, read, look at screens, or do anything that got his heart rate up. And most definitely not water ski.

Ryan shares, “it was definitely the most life-changing experience that I would never have asked for.” The months in the dark forced him to make drastic changes not only in his physical health, but also in his mindset towards himself. He had to overhaul his nutrition and sleep patterns in order to recover. No more caffeine, sugar, alcohol, staying out late, or sleeping in. He became more intentional with his time, giving space for reading, self-improvement, meditation, and reflection. When he was ready to take steps towards training again, he got in contact with a sports psychologist and a performance coach to help him stay holistically healthy. Finally, eight months after his injury, Dodd strapped on his skis for his first competition and scored a personal best. That milestone was followed shortly after by a first place victory at the the US Masters and a world title.

During his recovery, Ryan read a book that encouraged him to “turn obstacles into opportunities.” He used to view defeat or challenges as negative experiences, rather than moments to evaluate and grow. This shift in his mindset enabled him to take his recovery day by day, and has marked his career ever since. He learned that focusing on doing his best would always take him further than dwelling on the next big win. Performance goals remain important, but he has found that small, attainable goals in all areas of life are actually more rewarding and motivating. Although he’s back to skiing professionally, he shares that he is dreaming bigger than just gold medals and championships - he wants to help evolve the sport, encourage others, and mentor younger athletes. He currently trains with his dad, who has was titles in the Over 55 water skiing circuit himself, and looks forward to bettering himself at each competition in the coming year.

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Laura:

[00:00:54] Ryan Dodd welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast. We're so excited to have you on. Welcome!

 

Ryan:

[00:01:00] Thank you. Glad to be here.

 

Laura:

[00:01:02] Let's just get right to it. Now, you started skiing fairly young and not in a very typical location. Can you tell us about how you got started?

 

Ryan:

[00:01:11] Yeah a little bit of how I started. I started from Canada on a cattle farm actually. My Dad and Grandpa and family used to ski recreationally. And when I was 10 years old my dad actually built a dam with a tractor in a cow pasture as a sort of reserve or backup for cattle water. And we started skiing so I skied you know all summer on the Partyville and then played backyard Olympic. Been busy.

 

Laura:

[00:01:40] That's awesome. Now you have a friend Jared that you started training with when you were pretty young and you said he was kind of inspiration from the beginning. I have to tell you I was reading this article and I love this quote you said about him. The thing about Jared is he works harder than anybody I've ever seen in this sport. But he does it with this carefree joy. Whether he's preparing for your event or rehabbing an injury that might in most careers. He does it with the energy and enthusiasm of a guy on holiday. Now what kind of impact is training with a guy like that had on you?

 

Ryan:

[00:02:12] I was in the same room as a kid you know every single thing you do just from the way I carried themselves to the. You know the way you trained and competed and whose family life was a definite inspiration and you know they got me heavily.

 

[00:02:28] But that. That kind of point that one that I pointed out is the hardest. Its sort of it seems for me to be the hardest thing. But it's also when you kind of get in that state where you can know everything flows and you can be relaxed but you're also working hard on anybody and performing at a high level in a dangerous sport like. Then you can carry on a life that's you know you can carry on great family life because you know and business. And you can just be fun to be around and that's kind of what was always blowing me away the most about him. And honestly, anyone that stands out to me you know if you're working hard but you're in a bad mood and resenting it and you're grumpy. Whatever. I mean what's the point of that?

 

Laura:

[00:03:12] Exactly. Exactly. Now I have to ask you about your dad because I'm a mom and I've been a fairly successful athlete too and now I have a daughter who's fallen in love with my sport and that makes me nervous. Now your dad Bruce was a world champion water skier. And how did that affect you growing up? I mean was did it inspire you or was it like a weight to prove something? Like, Tell me about that?

 

Ryan:

[00:03:34] Well kind of the odd thing is he was never a professional skier. He was always a farmer. He skied for fun in the summer. He competed but actually like he's a senior World Champion. So like in the in the 55 and up and he just did that like I think five for the first time. So It was not. It wasn't really that way like I'd ever had. How you kind of go on him saying he wasn't actually a professional skier. He was to set a record. Somebody in the senior ranks.

 

[00:04:06] He's actually excelled the last 10 years. So now he is. The pressure was more with how successful you know my family both my parents were. My mom was actually you know a horse trainer and she competed against the guys and she rode. You know she's one of the tops in the country. And my dad you know it was his business success. You know grew on a family farm from one cow to 9000. He's a pretty successful guy. So yeah I had pressure but you know for me the pressure was never and it still isn't like something that scares me or holds me back. That's why I thrive on. Like if I don't have pressure then I don't do as well. The more. Seriously the more the better. So.

 

Laura:

[00:04:48] I love it. So did you guys have to ask then did you guys train together.

 

Ryan:

[00:04:53] We actually train together right now. He's got his next senior world championships in three weeks in Santiago Chile and I'm just. My season is kind of winding down but I'm still training. I'm testing some stuff. I'm testing you know some stuff on my boat but he has to get ready for next year and he's preparing for that. So you know all a hop in the boat and watch him know a couple of times a week and help him out and vice versa. So springy.

 

Laura:

[00:05:17] Oh I love it. It's like family goes right there. That's awesome. I have to ask you. You had a life-threatening head injury and it sidelined you from competition for like eight months. Can you tenet take me through that?

 

Ryan:

[00:05:34] Yeah. It’s a. Actually without a sport, It was not one of my most proud moments but I wanted to give that to our partner to set the bar and I got beat up and the first time I've been in a fight and hopefully last with them. That's not my forte. So I was you know I kind of woke up not knowing what happened and beat up pretty bad and actually flew home. I didn't know how serious it was. And then the next day I started freaking out like my head like gonna explode and other members basically the emergency room and my skull was fractured and my brain was bleeding in different spots like a subdural hematoma. And then like Oh my God you're lucky to be alive. I was right beside this major artery blood. I was. Insane! They didn't do surgery. They just kind of let it sit for a few hours and then the bleeding stopped. And you know I was basically just laying in bed for three months. I wasn't allowed to go outside in the heat. I was about to get my heart rate up with my caffeine. I wasn’t allowed to read Green. Watch. I was basically to sit there in the dark for a long time and you know the hope of being able to compete again and all that was kind of the last of my mind. But as I got going and got feeling better and so to see things a little different. And about 5-6 months I started working out a little and pushing it to bed you know. Seven months I got back on the water and was stronger and lighter than I'd ever been. And I definitely work with some you know some experts in sports psychology. And I got a performance coach kind of helped me you know that my career. And then next thing you know eight months after the injury I had the first competition I had a personal best. And next when I won the biggest game of the year the U.S. Masters. And since then it's been a steady ride upward all the way to last year world record and two world titles.

 

[00:07:25] It's been definitely a life-changing experience they don't want to like ask for but. I read this book I read this one book it was I forget the name but it was kind of like some of it was just basically turning your obstacles and opportunities and I never really thought of things that way. I just thought they were like bad when some bad happened or something went wrong. But since that moment even big or small I've said it immediately. This is the moment I'm learning something and this is for the best and it's gonna help me and that's nice. So.

 

Laura:

[00:07:57] So in those months that you were kind of stuck in the dark like you said. I mean what got you through that? Did you have that mindset then? Or like how did you? I mean I just can't even imagine as an athlete and somebody so active being scourged. Yeah. Like how did you and with the brain keep going?

 

Ryan:

[00:08:07] No. So weird. It’s terrible.

[00:08:11] I mean moving now there's more research and more guidance but I'll just kind of the doctor's like go home and rest and read stuff online. It was basically just the way it was. It was so counterintuitive for me because with the brain. Whatever it was with rest your body you exercise it. It gets stronger. You break it down and get started with a brain injury. You push it. It gets weaker and it doesn't. You actually have to just do nothing for it to get stronger. It's not like strong healthy brain you stress and they get stronger with better spirit, not injury. You basically just have to sit there.

 

Laura:

[00:08:48] Well like what did you? I mean what I think about it and who's? I mean cause there's a lot of time to just sit there like I can't even fathom where my brain though.

 

Ryan:

[00:08:56] It was so weird but after a while I just it's actually just kind of thought OK. Because I've never done it in my life. I've always been so busy and worked so hard. And I started to kind of just look outside and pay attention to things. And be more present and watch the clouds and listen to the sound. I started meditating and I got a coach to kind of teach me some breathing exercises and guided meditations. And I started doing that every morning and create a little kind. I change my diet and I stopped you know sugar or I stop caffeine and alcohol and I just definitely cleaned clean everything out and actually started to feel better than normal. Even though I wasn't doing stuff. [00:09:40] So it was pretty neat. It was crazy.

 

Laura:

[00:09:43] That's so wild. It is amazing those things happen to you. You don't ask or you don't want but it can change you in a good way. Right?

 

Ryan:

[00:09:49] I wouldn't have gone without you know a slap in the head basically.

 

Laura:

[00:09:53] Yeah. I get that.

 

Ryan:

[00:09:55] And now it's like how do we go to that place of like you know disparity or need without having to have something traumatizing happen. How do we how do we dig that deep in ourselves to be a better person without it? That's that's the challenge because it's. We can change. Like I used to sleeping and so tired till noon and you know my whole body clock has changed and I get up with the sun and I go to bed with the sun and I feel the dust before. Yeah. Everything is so weird but it's totally changed.

 

Laura:

[00:10:27] That's cool. That's very cool to see what affected you that way. Now you've been telling yourself since you were 10 years old that if you put in the work and stay on the path you would be a world champion. I mean you had mastered titles, Pan Am Games titles, other pro titles but when you got second at Worlds in 2013 you said you had a brief moment of doubt. You just wondered if you'd been living a lie. If you were chasing something is never gonna happen. Tell me about it?

 

Ryan:

[00:10:51] Yeah. That’s pretty terrible.

[00:10:55] Yeah. That was like a nasty moment because I felt like I could win when I was 18. You know I was like top 10 in the world and then now I'm like pros 30, 29 years old and I'm like sitting there so ready. I'd won all the events leading up and I even went down to the site. I jumped and I went way further than unnecessary when I did that. Top seed going into files and then the guy before me didn't even go like you know the jump and not like that far. Like you know 9 out of 10 jumps at that point would have done it. I basically just completely blanked out and screwed every jump up. And it was like I basically like I'd never heard of my life. This was just kind of blanked out when I turn. And next thing you know I had no sense of what was even going on and then it was over and it was like literally over and it's over for two years. So I really start to wonder. I'm like I could have been more prepared. There's not. But what. It's you know as you know as an athlete everything's mental everything's in your brain you know your body everything else is prepared. And I even thought I was mentally prepared but kind of the biggest moment.

 

[00:12:08] It was kind of the next year. I don't remember exactly what happened but my biggest change was instead of like competing against you know my biggest competitor which is Freddy Krueger at the time and trying to win. It just became caring more about the things that I need to do to be my best. And if you can actually whether you're tricking yourself or you actually believing it. You know you can want to have a great performance more than a win. You know if you can truly want that best job for that bus run or whatever sports, eating or whatever you've got a business that you can want that more than the result. You can actually create got morning program herself to work that way. That's the moment that it becomes like I was saying with Jerry with ease. And it doesn't need this heroic like out of body experience to make it happen because of you just kind of do anything. And you're that good at that point. So something changed I kinda let go you know taught when. And then didn’t make sense but when you let go trying to win you start winning every time. So I.

 

Laura:

[00:13:18] Wisdom right there.

 

Ryan:

[00:13:19] It takes me so long to like you know to put when I do it's definitely built in. So.

 

Laura:

[00:13:27] That's very cool. Now when you finally did win that World title two years later how did that make you feel? Was it everything you hoped for or not?

 

Ryan:

[00:13:39] Yes. In a way? And then also not in a way because the one you know. I'm saying I'm not there to just win but like I wanted to be my best which I was. But I also wanted to compete against the best. Part of me wanted to like and Freddie was injured that year in 2015 and he's still the number one competitor. I mean he didn't make it. So it's kind of like Oh man really? Like my brain. I was like you know the other best guy would have a gorilla performance and I come out and I muster up the courage and do it. Right?

 

Laura:

[00:14:14] Right. The best of the best. Right?

 

Ryan:

[00:14:14] This is a game in your head. But at the end of the day, I went out. I was prepared. I did my job. And I totally killed it and I won my first jump with 3 attempts. And it was amazing. But part of me was like Oh no I wish it was this. But after a few months, I'm like I just won the World Championships. But yeah I was insane. You know when it finally hit me it was like you know I think that some things really started to change and I start to believe in myself. And I was like wow it's not you know I haven't been lying to myself forever. I can actually do this. Because with anything that we do before we've done it we're telling ourselves it's possible with no proof of it being possible. So inhale I can read every line of the song. It's like oh well I guess I can keep imagining things and making them happen.

 

Laura:

[00:15:06] Well I think you. I mean it's it's so interesting to me because you had won so many things. And you were already so many athletes dream of being you know? You'd won so many titles and second at worlds and that's still amazing before you won the world.

 

Ryan:

[00:15:20] But in my brain said I'm gonna be okay. I'm going to be a world champion. I’m gonna hold records. So it's all you know for me it was all nice and fun but that's what I was here to do. So.

 

Laura:

[00:15:36] Well so I guess it's kind of a fine line right? Like you need to have those goals. You need to push yourself like no this is my goal I'm going to keep going. But at the same time, it's so easy for us as athletes to get sucked into that mindset of like our importance and our identity is all wrapped up in the results of our performance. Like how do you separate those? Because it's important to have those goals but you can't get just totally sucked into those all consuming goals right?

 

Ryan:

[00:16:00] Yeah I mean we need. So like we need performance we don't need them. But like I like to have performance goals such as a score or a win or a result. But like the best way to stay sane and live a good life and feel successful on a daily basis is to from my experience is to have goals that are within our actual control. Goals such as dietary goals, lifestyle goals, the amount of sleep you know. Spend time with your family and friends you know. The hours you put into your training you know. Your ability to not be emotionally or I guess like energetically set back when things don't go your way right? If you can keep. If my goal can be to stay as motivated when things aren't going my way is when they are. If you have goals like that? Then at the end of the day, the results are going to come pouring in. The challenge is when they start pouring in for me to not just get excited about them and forget what got me there. And it's like that's still my battle like last year is the best year of my life on the water and you know and I'd say everything. And this year I just go. I'm like Oh let's keep doing that let's keep winning. That was awesome! And then I forget how to turn I'm like oh my god I'm like all the things that made me have a great year. I'm focused on the results again. It's like really?

 

[00:17:26] But that's. It's so hard as you know because that's like what everybody talks about. Everybody you know that's a people post on Facebook. That's what they talk about. The first thing they say oh that the world champion. It's like oh you're not a person like hello I'm just a human. Deep down it's like we want the results. But like I say we feel better when we just feel like a normal person and where we live a normal life. So that's the that's the challenge.

 

Laura:

Right. It’s the balance right?

 

Ryan:

Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:17:56] OK. So now you just mentioned it. You've got a world record. Now you have 2 world titles because you won last year as well. And you got four Masters titles. What? 45 pro wins?! And you're still going. Where do you see your career going from here? And how do how do you keep motivated?

 

Ryan:

[00:18:13] Honestly like that's that's the next step for me. That's what I'm sitting here right now. There's actually one more event left this year in 2 and a half weeks in the last month. I've been kind of wondering do I do it? Do I rest? The last two years I've taken the whole kind of winter off. But I'm like You know I'm like sometimes for me you can't sit here and you know when you ask me that question I can't just come up with the answer. Sometimes they just come like my motivation has just come to me in the past. You know an opportunity has been presented. That's kind of helped create it. Right now I'm sitting here and my wife and I are chatting. I was talking to my dad last night and I'm like I'm trying to figure out what is next? Because I don't. I mean you know I'm afraid and I don't want to be the guy that's sucked into like you said these goals and results. You know on that 45 pros and just go for 100. You know last year actually I set a goal was to win all the events right? Well, I lost the first event. I set this year goal to win all these events like haven't. I won the first event so I'm like you know maybe goals like that aren't what I need, you know. Is that a sign? Do I set it next year and then be mad all year if I don't do it? No. Like so I need to move. I need to figure it out. And you know maybe it's maybe it's something different. I don't know.

 

Laura:

[00:19:42] You know what I love about this? Is you are so accomplished and you've done all these things beget you're still figuring it out. Like that makes me feel more sane because I feel like I'm in the same boat. So thank you for making me feel like a human.

 

Ryan:

[00:19:54] Oh yeah. You’re welcome.

 

Laura:

[00:19:56] Now, of all these things. Like what do you want to be remembered for? What do you want people to take away and like remember about you?

 

Ryan:

[00:20:08] I mean I want to be remembered for innovating in the sport. Like as you know with my you know what I do as an athlete but also you know for the sport. And that's the step that I haven't. You know that for the sport haven't taken yet but I've kind of you know kind of started. Which would mean evolving the kind of the rules and you know the ramp and the boat and kind of working on that? And then you know as a person part of the reason that I coach and do some other things is because I want to inspire people to be you know to be their best and find that they love to do and commit to it. And so I guess whenever I chat with someone I want them to feel like you know they know that I care about them and I want to help them figure it out.

 

Laura:

[00:20:59] I love it. I love your hashtag Aspire to Inspire. Like I love your whole mantra. It just it resonates with me. It's very cool.

 

Ryan:

[00:21:06] Thank you. Thank you.

 

Laura:

[00:21:08] On your website you say that your mission is to kinda uncover your potential as an athlete into inspiring give back to people along the way. And working with Homes of Hope in Mexico to build and donate homes that's one of the ways you kind of stay true to that mission. How did you get involved in that? And like what does that mean to you? Why do you keep doing it?

 

Ryan:

[00:21:27] Yeah. I have a. It’s actually my performance coach so sort of my mental coach. He who I started working with when I had my head injury who's now been a big part in helping me recover and come back and have a good life. He for a few years was like Ryan you got to give back. You've got to you know he's kind of helping me figure out all the pieces of the puzzle. And he's like you should give back. You should find a way to donate to something. And he's like you should you know maybe give 10% of your winnings to something. And I'm like I don't want to give my money away like it seems meaningless just to donate money to something. Like he's like oh here's this link you can set. I'm like No! Like I just kind of got mad like I don't wanna do that. I want something I have meaning I want to kind of see it and feel it and know that it's real. And I just kind of had this weird like thing about like just donation. It's like I thought it was something people just do to feel better about themselves more than like for other people.

 

[00:22:23] So I was very hesitant. Many introduced me to a friend of his who's also a friend of my wife's. And then like a family friend of hers just like a bed talk. He's also a skier and he works with homes of hope in Mexico. He'd done like I think 7 years in a row of these builds that we had. We got a call. And I kind of just told them Hey I want it. I want to connect my performance to giving back to something. You know I want. When I do. I want to be motivated to do well not just for me to stand there and hold the medal but for me to have more to go back and give to somebody. Because it's nice you win an event. You go home. We got more money for your family. It feels cool. But it's like a family is everything OK. It's like it'd be really nice to like you know if I want and like you know whether it's 100 bucks or a thousand bucks or whatever it is to like give to somebody who's like having trouble getting food. There's no roof over their head. So we, he kind of told me what he did. I told him what to do? And somebody on the call he's like Hey why don't we work this out? Boom! I said I'll give 10 percent of what I win this year. And I'll casually you know kind of under the radar offer it to people to match any portion of it. Because I didn't want it to be. I wanted it to be this fine line of not where it's marketing right? That Ryan is a good person because he's doing this but like. So I just did one Facebook post say hey I'm doing this Homes of Hope Mexico can build a house. So you know I'm going to donate this. You know hit me up if you want to match a portion of it. Super casual. And then I think at the end of the year we had 10 or 15 people and donate some money and I think we're about twenty thousand bucks. And I was like Oh my God this is insane. The house is you know a lot less than that.

 

[00:24:10] And it was overwhelming without really any effort. So I was like. Then we went down and built the house and it was way above and beyond my expectations. And I dropped on my weird like stigma like you know money being hidden in some charities and all this weird stuff I had in my head for no reason. And I was like this is unbelievable! The coolest thing I've ever done. And it blew my mind and then the next year which was last year we built two homes and this year where we're going to. I don't know if I'm gonna make it this year but I'm supporting it because my wife she's pregnant so I might just stay home with her. So yeah. It's going pretty cool.

 

Laura:

[00:24:52] That's fantastic. I love it. I love it. When you get your hands like in it too and you see it. Kind of like you said is there some weird thing like you actually see it and you see the results of it. Yeah. Very cool.

 

Ryan:

[00:25:04] It was a very special opportunity. And I recommend it to anyone and I think it's the best way to connect with a family and even yourself. And you know just kind of come down to reality and pretty real.

 

Laura:

[00:25:19] Well, I love that how you started it just by kind of a simple donation hey if you want to join me. And it was kind of a ripple effect on all these people got involved in it. It's made such a big impact. I mean that's just. That's a beautiful thing. That's life right?

 

Ryan:

[00:25:31] And then another group actually tied on one of the girls that participated in the US with my build. She went and kind of did the same thing. So of donating got other people in and then kind of breath. So we'll move on there's a whole secondly side going on and it's pretty neat. So it definitely like it's something it's a good way for things to kind of go viral.

 

Laura:

[00:25:54] Yes. Definitely.

 

Ryan:

[00:25:55] Like let's give it. Everybody and doing something good. So yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:25:59] Well and you kind of mentioned you guys have some exciting news and I love how you announced it on Instagram where you're holding a pineapple. When is baby Dodd due?

 

Ryan:

[00:26:10] March next year.

 

Laura:

[00:26:11] Congratulations! It is so awesome. So awesome.

 

Ryan:

[00:26:14] Thank you. Thank you.

 

Laura:

[00:26:15] Now because you're fantastic and we're so inspired and encouraged by you. Where can we follow you online to kind of keep up with all your adventures and everything that you're doing?

 

Ryan:

[00:26:26] Once I get better than of my website it'll be on InspiredByRyan.com it's brand new. About my Instagram @rdodd260. That's kind of I'd say where I post the most often and then Facebook. So yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:26:43] All right. Fantastic! Well thank you so much for taking the time to just share your inspiring story with us and we wish you the very best of luck.

 

Ryan:

[00:26:50] Thank you very much.

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About This Episode

“You always have to believe that you can achieve the unthinkable.”

She was only nineteen years old when she won gold in Athens. Weeks before the Olympics she hadn’t even made the team.

For most of us, getting to the Olympics is a far off dream, but Mariel Zagunis shares that it always seemed completely attainable. The daughter of two Olympic rowers, she grew up believing that she, too, could someday make Team USA. Despite her parents legacy, however, rowing was not of interest to Mariel. She says that her mom put her older brother in fencing lessons to keep him from sword fighting all throughout the house. After tagging along to his classes for several week, Mariel decided to give it a try as well. What started as a way to divert boundless energy quickly became national competitions and junior world championships, all with the same coach she still trains with today.

Having Olympian parents was a real asset to her as she became a more serious athlete. They instilled in her a strong work ethic, a positive attitude towards competition, and, most importantly, a solid support system for when things didn’t go her way. This was particularly important in 2004 when Mariel was devastated to have not qualified to fence at the Olympics in Athens. All she wanted to do was sit on the couch and cry, but her parents encouraged her to continue to train as if she were going. This advice would be key for her. Just weeks before the Olympics she got a call that the delegate from Nigeria would not be going and a spot opened up in the competition.

Mariel reflects that she went to Athens to prove to everyone that she was meant to be there the whole time. Despite being only nineteen and the lowest seeded competitor, she came out swinging - literally. A true underdog story, Mariel went on to win the gold medal and break a 100 year drought in American fencing history. She turned heads not only in the world of fencing, but across the nation. Four years later in Beijing she stood at the top of the podium flanked on both sides by American women as Team USA swept the event and she went home with another gold. In those 2008 Olympics a team event was offered and she snagged a bronze medal.

Her impact on the Olympic community was recognized as she was chosen by her peers to be the flag-bearer at the London Olympics in 2012. Mariel shares that all of her success didn’t seem too overwhelming until she was highlighted at those Olympics. She felt the pressure mount and missed the podium in both the individual and team events.

Mariel headed home to the support of her family and friends, who she credits with helping her get through the aftermath of a devastating games. Humbled by the loss in the spotlight, she took quite a long break from fencing. She wasn’t sure if she would even come back to fencing, but shares, “I had to prove to myself that this one loss does not define me.” She dedicated the next few years to training even more purposefully. She shifted her perspective to see mistakes as opportunities to learn and improve herself. Rio was a bit disappointing as she walked away with a bronze medal in the team event, but didn’t medal in the individual event. But her new growth mindset didn’t leave her feeling defeated, it left her feeling empowered to train for her next Olympics in Tokyo.

Gearing up for the 2020 Olympics looks different, though. Mariel gave birth to a daughter in 2017 and now balances athletics with motherhood. She says that she didn’t fully comprehend how much her body and mind would change as she became a mom, but feels surprisingly good heading back into competition. She has had to change how she manages training, but, at only seven months postpartum, she took the bronze medal in Moscow at the World Championships and now has her eyes set on a third Olympic gold.

Today, she finds the pressure to win exhilarating instead of paralyzing. She finds confidence in her training and shows up to competitions knowing that she has put in the work, prepared as much as possible, and can let her best effort speak for itself. And win or lose, she credits her coach of 24 years, her family, and her friends for supporting her no matter what. “No one becomes an Olympic champion on their own or by luck,” says Mariel. It’s through hard work and with the backing of her community that she looks forward to Tokyo.

 

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Laura:

[00:00:04] Welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast where we chat each week with athletes about purpose. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. I'm so excited for today's guests not just because she's a personal friend of mine but because there is no limit or barrier that can contain this woman. And I am constantly inspired by her amazing feats. Muriel's Zagunis is the most decorated fencer in American history. But her history-making path wasn't without struggles disappointments and defeats. She shares about her mindset after not qualifying for the Olympic Games. How she learned to find confidence in her training and her life as a mom has changed her perspective. Now listen up because this interview is packed full of wisdom.

 

Welcome Muriel's goodness to the hope sports podcast. I'm so excited that you're here with us today.

 

Mariel:

[00:00:55] Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you Laura.

 

Laura:

[00:00:58] Now I have been blessed and so lucky to know you for a number of years now but for our audience who might not be as familiar with you. Can you give us a little bit of background about how you got started in fencing?

 

Mariel:

[00:01:09] Sure. Yeah. It's a very obscure sport. Not a lot of people fence or really know what fencing is all about. I have to say in recent years it's gotten more popular which is really cool. So when I tell people that I fence now they actually know that it's a sport and an Olympic sport rather than before when they'd be like, What's that? And so I started fencing now almost. Oh man! Twenty-four years ago almost? And I started because my older brother when we were kids he wanted to sword fight. And so my mom needed to find an outlet for that. And so she found an after school fencing program just at a very very small club. And so I was the younger sibling just sitting there on the sidelines watching him have so much fun hitting people with swords and I thought it looked like fun. So that's that's how we all got started in the random sport of fencing.

 

Laura:

[00:02:00] Oh that's great. Now your parents were both Olympians. Olympic rowers in the 76 Games in Montreal. Right?

 

Mariel:

[00:02:06] Yeah that's how they met actually they both made the team.

 

Laura:

[00:02:09] Oh that's so cool. So was there ever like a push for you and your brothers to be rowers too?

 

Mariel:

[00:02:14] So. Not really. I think that both my parents being Olympians gave us as kids a sense of what the Olympics were from a very young age probably more so than I don't know your average kid. You know we I remember looking at their Olympic memorabilia books and like all their pictures and hearing their stories and just being like wow! That's so cool! Like I want to be that when I grow up, you know? And It was just kind of this concept that was obtainable. You know I think that some people maybe when they look at trying to aspire to be an Olympian or make an Olympic team or even win a gold medal it seems so far out of reach and it seems so just I don't even know where to begin. But because my both of my parents were Olympians it kind of seemed like oh yes you know that's what they did. So I want to do that. Sure. Why not, you know? And so as far as rowing they never really pushed my brothers and me to try it. But we did have a monitor in our house growing up because my parents still used it for exercise. And so they got us on that a few times. And I was like I'm never doing this again. I remember I was like I don't know eight or nine or something like that and I was like I feel like I'm going to die like I don't even know how much how many meters or whatever I did on it. But I was like nope not for me. I did not seem like fun at all.

 

Laura:

[00:03:36] Well that's one of those rowing machines right? You can work out on well. I don't. That's tough. That's a tough workout right there.

 

Mariel:

[00:03:42] Oh my God! Yeah. For anybody. And so then yeah. I was like nope. This doesn't seem like fun. So and luckily they didn't push us one way or the other they were very supportive in whatever we wanted to do. And luckily we found fencing instead of rowing so we created our own.

 

Laura:

[00:03:57] Well, so I know you said it kind of made it seem normal for you. Like this is a totally achievable thing that I can do. Are there other ways that having Olympian parents is kind of help you throughout your career and even just life and generally, you think?

 

Mariel:

[00:04:11] Oh my gosh totally. You know even if you're on a clear path towards the Olympics and you know what it takes and you know want to make those sacrifices and you are willing to give it everything you have there are. As you know always going to be ups and downs and obstacles to overcome and failures that you have to pick yourself up from. And I think having parents who went through all that in order to make a team and made the sacrifices that needed to be made and definitely went through their own struggles. For sure helped me and continues to help me to this day, through my journey and through each Olympic games each Olympic cycle. Because everyone has been so different that there's always something that I'm coming to my parents with and needing their help on or seeking their advice for. And it just you know just they've been so supportive and understanding. Especially now being a grown woman with my own child. It's like Wow! They made so many sacrifices to help me achieve these goals and these dreams. And I can never thank them enough like throughout the rest of my life for doing what they did to help me get to the level that I am. That I've got to.

 

Laura:

[00:05:28] That’s so cool. Was there any part of it that was maybe more difficult like was it was there any pressure on you or any kind of stress on that on that angle or were they always just supportive?

 

Mariel:

[00:05:39] Oh they were supportive. I don't know again looking back at you know hindsight. And I'm sure you also you have this too because we have similar kind of experiences as far as getting to the top top which is the Olympic gold medal. We didn't just make Olympic teams you and I. We won the Olympic gold medal which is just again just a completely different Echelon than even just making it on an Olympic team. Both are great achievements but of course, the gold medal is what most of us are there for. And so there wasn't too much pressure. You know, Once I was starting to do well and stuff. But I definitely looking back again my parents instilled in me an incredible work ethic. And I think that there was definitely some pressure to be like well you know you're not going to go to your friend's birthday party this weekend. You're gonna go to a fencing competition and things like that where, you know? I definitely like at the moment hated it. Because when you're you know eleven, twelve, thirteen years old you want to be involved and have that social life and all that stuff.

 

But I think they pushed me in all the right ways and I'm thankful that they did obviously. Because now that I'm grown and have been doing this for so long and I'm on my own as far as like my mom's not going to tell me that I need to go to practice. Like I do it on my own now because I think they instilled in me a really rigorous kind of work ethic mentality. I need to do this. I need to work hard. I need to sacrifice certain aspects of my life in order to be successful. And I know whether or not people would agree with that? It obviously resulted in my Olympic teams and my Olympic medals that I have. So you know. Of course, it obviously worked in some rest in some respects. So.

 

Laura:

[00:07:24] That's cool. Parenting is a hard sport. I would say in itself. So kudos to your parents for doing a good job.

 

Mariel:

[00:07:30] Well you get another gold medal in that. Geez! With all that you have going on. My goodness! I have won. I have won. And I don't even know how I make it to the gym half the time these days. And you have four. And I was like, oh my gosh!

 

Laura:

[00:07:42] Well, you just start juggling at some point. So you know one's always in the air at least.

 

Mariel:

[00:07:47] Yeah. Yeah. man.

 

Laura:

[00:07:50] OK. Well back to where we talking about. So the women's saber event it was being contested for the very first time at the 2004 Summer Games. But you actually didn't initially qualify the Nigerian I guess Nigeria. Decided not to send their qualified fencer to the Olympic Games. And since you were the next highest seeded fencer in the world you got selected to go and represent the USA. And you didn't just represent like we mentioned you won America's first gold medal in fencing in 100 years. Please take us through that whole process because that's it's crazy on all friends.

 

Mariel:

[00:08:25] Yes a definite underdog story to say the least. You know not making the team initially was of course very heartbreaking. And the way that fencing. The qualification goes for fencing the cut off for us at that point was the end of March in 2004. So I had these whole couple months of limbo where I was just like I don't know if I'm going to be able to get this alternate spot. I don't know if my dreams are crushed. I'm going to have to wait another four years for another chance and all this stuff.

 

And so I think that one of the things that really helped me pull through when the opportunity arose was the fact that I didn't give up. I just even though there was such a small small sliver of hope that I somehow could make the team. I continue to train as if I had already made the team and as if I was going to be there no matter what. And I think that just having that positive mentality having myself. And my whole support system supports me and be like you know what we're going to just see out the rest of these next couple of months. We're going to keep training as if everything worked out the way we expected it to. And you know I think that made a big difference was having that positive attitude. And staying in the gym and not curling up in a ball on a couch and crying every day which is what I wanted to do. When I didn't initially make the team. Because you know like I said that was the end of March and the Olympics weren't until July, August.

 

And so if I had just kind of given up on everything. I 100 percent would not have been physically or mentally prepared when that opportunity arose. And so I think that having you know very positive support system around me just really rallying and being like you know what you already we're supposed to be you know training these months and getting ready for this Olympics. And so why don't we just see it out and make the most of this time that we have. And that's what I did and luckily I stuck with it because then sure enough you know a couple of months later I found out that I was going to be the alternate. And like I said it was nice to not have the pressure on me. And great to feel physically and mentally prepared for that opportunity.

 

Laura:

[00:10:37] Well so what was that like? I mean going in. You prepared. You know, Just hoping for that sliver of hope like you said. And then you got to go in and do it. But then you went and won. I mean. What? Did you expect that? Were you surprised? Or were you thinking the whole time like yeah I've got a shot at this?

 

Mariel:

[00:10:53] I. I believed in myself. And I believe that I had been training and preparing to win an Olympic gold medal. Like I mentioned before. Some people are just as happy working to a personal goal or working to just make the Olympic team. Knowing that I don't know that their time or their weight or their performance isn't where it needs to be to win a gold medal. But you always have to believe in yourself. You always have to think that you can achieve the unthinkable. And I went into that Olympics in Athens just fulfilling my own expectations. I didn't care about what other people were saying about oh she's just an alternate or she doesn't stand a chance and all this stuff. I wasn't listening to me that nobody was even really paying any attention. So I showed up. Just happy to be there. And I was like I'm glad I have the second opportunity this second chance and I'm not going to let it go to waste. And I just fulfilled my own expectations and I went there to win. I knew all along that I was working towards a gold medal. And I just tense my heart out and kind of prove to myself and to the world that I was meant to be there the whole time.

 

Laura:

[00:12:00] It's so good. I love it! I love it now. What was the aftermath like? Because now all of a sudden you're you're made you've made history. I mean you won this first gold medal for America in like 100 years. I mean what was there a lot of kind of you know stuff thrown on you after that or how was that aftermath?

 

Mariel:

[00:12:17] I'm not some. I mean like yes or no. It was definitely a whirlwind as you know. It's just like that post-Olympic time. But that couple of months or a handful of weeks where just like everybody kind of wants a piece of you and it's like it's very overwhelming especially as a 19-year-old. and so it was a little bit crazy. But of course, it ended up dying down. And then the ramp up against Beijing four years later there was a lot of hype run around me and repeating and. But you know to be honest our U.S. team was very strong so there was a lot of attention on my teammates as well. And so I don't know I just I think back to that time was already over 10 years ago. So crazy to just think that I just put my head down and dug deep and I was like not even thinking of it as I need to do this or I need to defend my title or anything like that. I just again went out and fence my heart out and did what I knew how to do the best which is you know to perform in and fence how I knew how to fence. And it resulted in another goal which I was extremely satisfied and happy with of course.

 

Laura:

[00:13:25] And so I mean not only did you just defend your gold medal but you also added a bronze medal in the team event. Now was that? I mean, I guess how is that different having a team to stand on the podium with. Even though it was bronze versus an individual gold medal. Like what's that what is the different feeling I guess in that result?

 

Mariel:

[00:13:44] Yes it's very different but you know it also means a lot because you're winning that medal with your teammates, you know. And so fencing is a very individual sport and it's also very unique. Because it's kind of like I don't know if you think of it like the track events where you're one day you're running 100 meters against your teammates and you want to beat everybody. It doesn't matter if they're your teammates or not but you're running 100 meters and you want to win and so you win. And then a couple days later you're running the four by 100 meter with your teammates, you know. I mean.

 

And so that's kind of similar to how it works with fencing. So actually in Beijing, I beat my teammates for brought for that in the semifinals in the finals. I don't know if you remember that we swept so it was like I literally beat them but we also swept the podium and then a couple of days later we went and won a bronze medal together. So we were fencing together so it is a very different mentality when you're going into the team event. But an Olympic medal chance an Olympic medal is really awesome.

 

And also just real quick not a lot of people realize this the fencing when women's saber was added as it is an Olympic event. They took away or put us I guess in place of another event. They didn't give fencing as a sport more medals or more events so we had to fit in there. So in Athens, we only had the individual. The individual women's saber. In Beijing we had individual and the team back in London we only had individual again and then Rio we had the individual and the team. We have that opportunity to have the team event in Beijing because we didn't have it in Athens was awesome because you know obviously two Olympic medals are better than one to handle.

 

Laura:

[00:15:24] Definitely. Definitely. Well, so how was winning the very first one in Athens when you were that underdog to winning and defending that title and then winning the one with your teammates? Like I was one better than the other were they both sweet and different ways? Like what? Yeah. Explain that to me.

 

Mariel:

[00:15:40] Yeah. I get asked that question a lot. It's sweet in different ways for sure. It's like choosing between your children. And you know like you can't decide like which one. They're both so different experiences and you know to win Athens you know being an alternate first gold medal in 100 years for the US, first gold medal for Olympic medal for women's saber, and then to repeat in Beijing. That's repeat. That's four years later defending your title. Yeah. So is they all this every Olympics. Again as you know I'm sure has its own feel its own memories its own just everything that goes into it. It's just a different time in your life too, you know? Four years is a is a long time a lot of changes, you know. So it's just. They're both very very special to me in their own way.

 

Laura:

[00:16:28] That's cool. So      OK you have two Olympic gold medals and a bronze and you decide to keep on going. And so you're heading into London 2012 for your third Olympic games. Did that feel like walking into Beijing where you're defending again even though you said you kind of kept your head down and you just wanted to do your thing? Or was this like you mentioned each Olympic Games is different was this is a totally separate event?

 

Marie:

[00:16:50] I think it was it felt different for sure. Again it's like your third Olympics is ofcourse going to feel very different than your first. And then I have the added kind of attention on me being selected to be the flag bearer. And I think that that kind of changed the mentality a little bit. Because suddenly you know I went from two Olympics and you know making history. Which was awesome! But not a lot of people really paid attention to it to all of a sudden huge spotlight on my story and my history and my performance and this and that.

 

And so I think it definitely changed the way I felt that my performance went to London because of that. I mean not to say that who knows how it would have gone if I wasn't selected Siberian flag. Being flag bearer was an incredible honor and it was such an amazing experience to lead Team USA into the opening ceremony. I was just absolutely incredible. But it probably ended up being the highlight for me for the London games because I did come away empty handed.

 

Laura:

[00:17:57] Yeah. I mean that is because you didn't even walk in Beijing, did you? because you were the first day of competition.

 

Marie:

[00:18:02] Yeah. We're the first day.

 

Laura:

[00:18:03] So did you do the opening ceremony in Athens?

 

Marie:

[00:18:07] I did opening but not closing in Athens.

 

Laura:

[00:18:10] Okay. This is your set your second opening ceremony and your flag there. I mean because that's huge. It is a huge deal because all the U.S. athletes come together. And they pitch their favorite stories. And the athletes are the ones that vote on it. And so I remember when I heard you got selected I was so excited. Just cause I knew you and I knew your story. And you know I was there with NBC with the media. But I was so stoked that it was you and watching you just carry that flag. It was really really cool. But I can imagine the pressure that must come with that.

 

So do you think you just kind of let that in? Or I guess yeah. What. You know, I guess what aspect of it that you think affected the performance?

 

Marie:

[00:18:49] Again it's hard to say because you don't have a crystal ball to say what would have happened had I not been flagged there? I was very excited to have been given that honor for sure. But like I said it with it comes a lot of added attention a lot of added stress. A lot of extra interviews that maybe you know otherwise I wouldn't have been a part of. You know, what I mean? Because then you know you want to be part of all the press conferences and all that.

 

But it was I mean again to have that experience obviously. But I would have loved to have had my cake and eat it too. As far as having the flag there and then come away with an Olympic and another Olympic gold medal. So but again who's who's to say what my performance would have been either way. But yeah you know it does add a little bit of pressure to you because suddenly you're being seen by millions of people in the opening ceremony. Which again is absolutely incredible. To have represented not only my country but to represent female athletes and to represent the sport of fencing. Like there were so many things that just made me beam with pride as I walked through to the stadium. But yeah I definitely probably was a little bit of a distraction a little bit of an energy drainer. But who's to say. I mean I don't know maybe this would have still gotten the same result but who knows. But yeah it was definitely disappointing as far as my performance side of things.

 

Laura:

[00:20:16] All right. And it's I mean you didn't totally take. I mean you lost in the bronze medal match. You finished fourth just off the podium which. I think we talked a few years ago about this and you said you were a little devastated. I mean how? It's obviously a very different experience from winning two times in a row and you have won so many like world titles and everything else like. I don't think you're very accustomed to not being on the podium. So how did you handle that defeat and move on?

 

Marie:

[00:20:45] Yeah. I would say I was more than a little bit devastated for sure. It was like just as you said you know when you're so accustomed to not that not that it's been easy at all. You know. You work. You. Again. I feel like I'm talking and preaching to the choir here. But like you know how hard you have to work to win and not only win but win consistently. And I just felt like suddenly the formula didn't work. And that was just a very odd place for me to be in. Because I'm like wait a minute this is what I've been doing my whole life and it's working more often than not working. And then suddenly when it's the biggest most important competition that I've already know how to win. It's not like you know a choke under pressure. I mean I guess I did choke on the pressure but like it's not. Like it was my first experience being in an Olympic final. To have it not play out how I was used to the last two Olympics was very very difficult to wrap my mind around.

 

And so coming back from that you know I had to step away from fencing for a little bit I took quite a long break. And I was like, man I don't know if I can do this again. But then I was like I have to do this! Like I have to come back and I have to prove to myself that this one loss does not define me. And I have to say to myself that I have another shot at Rio and I'm just gonna take these next quad and really work even harder to make sure that you know I can not come away empty-handed from my next Olympics.

 

Laura:

[00:22:28] So I love that. I absolutely love that. And so how? What changed exactly in your mindset or in your purpose or in what you were doing? Like what shifted to make that change to keep going?

 

Marie:

[00:22:43] I think that it was definitely humbling in a way. You know it's like I know sounds like I don't know spoiled or something to be like Oh well I'm used to winning the Olympics. For me, you know? So I think that it was humbling in a way that I was like I'm not going to take anything for granted.

 

You know it's not that I was before. But it's like every minute that I was in the gym was purposeful. And every competition that I went to was I was there to prove a point to myself. And I was there to learn. And I was there to you know just to make myself a better fencer. Each and every day whether it's through practice or competition and learning through my mistakes. Whether that be the mistakes that I made in mundane or the mistakes that I made in the tournament that I competed in last month.You know it's like I'm constantly wanting to improve upon myself. And just getting smarter and working harder. And you know working harder in different ways as well. Because you know obviously like I said I thought the formula I have had the magic touch but it proved me wrong in London. So I just really wanted to kind of turn things around and figure out another answer to how to get there.

 

Laura:

[00:24:01] Well so four years later you are in Rio and you got another bronze with the team which was awesome. You got ninth individually. So was was that a successful Games to you? How do you feel about all that?

 

Marie:

[00:24:15] Honestly I don't think that I would say that was not I mean successful as in not coming away empty-handed feels. So much different than coming away empty handed. So getting the bronze with my team was yes that was definitely a success for us. We lost a very very close match with Russia to make the gold medal around so that was a big bummer because we were so close. And they’re one of our toughest competitors and so to almost have beaten them if we had beat them on the Olympic stage would have just been incredible. So I wish that we had pulled through just a little bit more. But you know again to have a second opportunity after we lost to them to come away with a bronze and solidly come away with the bronze when we beat Italy was great. I think it was. We all had really great performances and I was happy with the team performance. Individually not so much and unfortunately just wasn't my day. Like I just didn't feel like it was my day. And that happens and that's a lot you're allowed to have that happen. And it was definitely again heartbreaking because it's not like I was even close to a medal that time. And so you know again you kind of come away from that and say what can I learn and how can I change? And if I'm going to go to Tokyo which that's my next goal again how am I going to make sure that when I'm there that doesn't happen again. And I can have a clear mind and a strong body and connect the two in the way that it needs to happen.

 

Laura:

[00:25:49] I love your mindset. I love the way you look at things like it's just such a gray. It's just a growth perspective. Like you just want to grow no matter what. And I love that because you can't be defeated if you're continuing to grow and to change and to learn and I think that's awesome.

 

Marie:

[00:26:02] Exactly. Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:26:04] Well now it's a little different like you said you got your eyes set on a fifth Olympic Games in Tokyo 2020. Which is crazy amazing! But now it's a little different because you're a wife and a mom. And so I'm assuming things have changed a little bit like you mentioned earlier with training and competing. Like what's? How does that look right now?

 

Marie:

[00:26:24] I mean again I'm sure you can most definitely attest to this. It's crazy how much your life changes when you have a kid when you are a working mom but couple that with professional athlete working mom. I mean oh my goodness! It's just it isn't saying the things that I let my body did when I was pregnant. I just can't even believe that I was pregnant and I had a baby and she's here and she's amazing and now I'm a mom. And it's just it just seems so surreal at times. I'm just like is this really my life.

 

Just because you know as a professional athlete for so long you have to be so selfish in the way that you train in the way that you compete and you're traveling all the time. And you're tired and you don't wanna like sometimes you don't want to talk to anybody. And you just want to lay there and you know how it goes. And so now to have this other part of my life that is now the biggest part of my life. It changes your perspective in such an amazing way. Because now like I said before when I go to the gym and I'm like I don't want to waste a minute. Now I literally don't have a minute to waste because like every time that I'm away from her I need to make it worth it. And I need to hurry up and get that workout in. So I can come home and give her lunch and put her down for a nap. You know what I mean. So just like it changes your outlook on the way that you train and the way that you time manage. But I'm always up for a challenge and it's been challenging in an in a really amazing way. So it's it's been really great.

 

Laura:

[00:27:57] I totally agree there. Because I think now I must have been really lazy when I was just me and with my husband. Now I am like I got 30 minutes I can clean the house do all these things I can get. Like a week's worth of stuff done in 30 minutes now.

 

Marie:

[00:28:10] I know. It's really crazy how different you're like. And I think that you're probably gonna say this too. But it's like some days you're like I feel like I'm gonna implode. I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm still so incompetent I don't even know you just feel slight so drained. And then other days you get to the end of the day you're like I'm superwoman! I keep you going! I don't even need to go to bed! I could just keep doing! All this stuff. And so it's just it's crazy how just the days wax and wane like that. But it's again it's like every day that's a new challenge. And it's exciting and in some way.

 

Laura:

[00:28:46] That's cool. Now. And you already went to like several competitions this year. And I mean I kept trying to like message you and you were like in France or you're over here. Crazy! But how is it getting back into that groove? Because I know what seven months to the day after you gave birth to Sunday you won a bronze medal in Moscow. And then I think the last time you medaled was why you were you were actually pregnant. Weren't you?

 

Marie:

[00:29:09] Yeah. Uh-hmm.

 

Laura:

Oh gosh! That's crazy! So what was it like getting back into that competition groove after having some time off to have a baby and have this new kind of change of programming?

 

Marie:

[00:29:21] Uh-hmm. Yeah. And it's. It is a change and I went to actually those were the two international or the Moscow one was the Grand Prix last season. And then I went to our national championships in April and then another national tournament in October and I won both of those two.

 

[00:29:40] It's like it's nice to kind of come back and feel like I can win again. And that I'm like on the podium again and I actually feel surprisingly good. Like I don't like I was, of course, I've never had a baby and had to come back before. So I didn't know how it was going to go but it's going really well and I feel fresh. And I feel fierce. And I feel like I'm just ready to be back where I was. But just like with a new perspective because I think that break was really really good for me to kind of feel like recharged. And I'm like I want to be there instead of like again I'm sure you can attest to this it's like when you're going day in day out the competition. This that. And it kind of gets to be monotonous and it kind of gets to be like you feel a little burnt out. Having such a long break and now coming back and having kind of a new perspective. And also new goals because it's like well I'm doing this for my daughter now to really kind of recharges you and energizes you to really fight even harder and gives you that extra motivation which is really cool.

 

Laura:

[00:30:49] Very cool. Well, you just wrote a beautiful article for Team USA. And you were recalling your win from Beijing because it's like your 10 year anniversary this year. And one of the things that you wrote that I loved you said when there's a gold medal at stake in history to be made it can feel either exhilarating paralyzing or a combination of any and all emotions in between.

 

[00:31:11] So how do you rise above all of that to perform your best when it means the most?

 

Marie:

[00:31:17] I mean that's just such a loving question. Well, sometimes you just have to use. You just. You just gotta do it. You just really literally when you go to the Olympics or a national competition or worlds or what have you. You can't think of it as like oh my gosh this is the Olympics or oh my gosh this is going to make or break my career. You just have to show up and know that you've been working so hard and that you've left no stone unturned when it comes to your preparation. And then you can just fall back on that. Not fall back but you can you can feel calm and you can feel in control because if you know that you've been preparing and working towards this moment then you can rely on your muscle memory. You can rely on your mental toughness because you know that you've prepared yourself.

 

[00:32:10] And I think that's something that maybe when some. I obviously can't speak for every situation ever. But when I think when people falter is because they suddenly think that they're not prepared. Or that they haven't put the work in or they have been lying themselves or you know something like that. And so all of that crowds your crowds your ability to think clearly and to perform at your best. And so I think that if you really prepare yourself and work hard leading up to the moment then when you're in the moment it's like second nature.

 

Laura:

[00:32:42] Perfect. You also wrote this when you stand on top of the podium at the Olympics there's no greater feeling as all of your hard work and years of sacrifice come to fruition. And what the world sees is an accomplished relieved ecstatic and usually weeping athlete. What the world doesn't see is the team behind the athlete because no one becomes an Olympic champion on their own luck or not on their own or by luck. To this day I'm so incredibly thankful for my support system coaches family friends and teammates who make this all possible. So tell us a little bit about your support system?

 

Marie:

[00:33:15] My support system has been amazing. It has been the reason for my success. I've been with the same coach Ed Korfanty for almost twenty-four years my entire career. So that says a lot about where my success comes from. Obviously, my parents have supported me from the moment I first picked up fencing. I was gonna say a saber but actually, I started with foil. But let's not focus on that.

 

[00:33:45] You know first my parents supporting me through everything from the ups and downs to paying for the club fees and the tournament fees and all of my international plane tickets. I mean I just I look back now and I'm just like I cannot believe that they the sacrifices that they made in order for me to come from a very young age get the experience that I needed to accelerate me on the onto the Olympic path. And you know just also even my friends my very close friends whether they're my teammates or my friends here at home it's just to have so much support and to feel so loved no matter what. You know I think that has made a big difference because especially just looking back on my experience in Athens when I all of my friends and family obviously knew that that was my goal to make the Olympic team in 2004 but to fall short of that. But to still have the support and the shoulders to cry on when I was going through that tough time just really made all the difference. And I think that throughout my career just to be surrounded by such positivity just makes such a big difference. And I know you know this too. Because if you're just thinking that you're doubting yourself some days which obviously going through you know a performance-based sport where you are measured on your performance you know. Because if it's like win or lose you need that support system that's gonna support you no matter what. And and I've had that throughout my entire career and I think that that's made all the difference because it's helped me believe in myself when I don't believe in myself. They believe me when I don't believe myself and they're there to help pick me up when I don't. When I fall short of what it is that I think is ideal and they'll support me no matter what.

 

[00:35:34] And so I think that that's made a big difference in my outlook on my career and my outlook on myself and my results. And also honestly on my decision to keep going because if I didn't have that support system then I probably would feel more discouraged and let myself get the best of myself when times get tough. So I think that this just made a really big difference throughout my career.

 

Laura:

[00:35:57] That's great. I mean you've mentioned over the past year you've experienced amazing victories, heartbreaking defeats, days where you felt unstoppable, and days where you felt lost and unsure. What is it that keeps you going? I mean why a fifth Olympic Games? Like what keeps you motivated and pushing through all the time?

 

Marie:

[00:36:17] Well I think honestly it's that elusive third gold medal in the individual event that I have fallen short of the past two Olympics. And to have the ability to keep going and to have another opportunity is something that I don't want to pass up because what we do is time sensitive as you know it's like well I mean you're out. So like supermom you're coming back to try the Olympics too. So it's like it is time sensitive in a way for me. And so you know I think my motivation comes from wanting to prove to myself that I can do it because I know I can.

 

[00:36:53] And then also I don't think that Sunday will remember Tokyo she'll be not even three. So I don't think she'll remember but I think it'll be really great to make those memories with her. Because you know I can. We can look back together and be like this is what Mommy did. And when you have a goal these are you know you have to sacrifice should resign and there'll be a lot of life lessons I think for her as far as dedication and hard work goes. And I want to set a good example for her.

 

[00:37:19] So just being able to set one of these really crazy goals incredible goals and work really hard towards it is something that can be really satisfying. Despite the obstacles along the way. So yeah that's that's pretty much my motivation.

 

Laura:

[00:37:37] I totally agree. That's great.

[00:37:39] Now, where can we follow you online to continue to be inspired and encouraged by you. And also cheer you on toward Tokyo? We're going.

 

Marie:

[00:37:46] Yeah. Yeah. I’m on my Instagram @mariel.zagunis is my handle and yeah. Try to post our season just started but we don't have another competition until the end of January. But once that starts then it'll be. Go go go. So there'll be a lot of updates and stuff going on in there. So that's where to find me.

 

Laura:

[00:38:07] Well thank you so much. And best of luck to you. We will be cheering you on toward Tokyo.

 

Marie:

[00:38:13] Thank you, Laura.

 

Laura:

[00:38:16] I'm so thankful to Marielle for sharing with us on today's show. I loved hearing about the pivotal shift in her mindset after missing the podium in London. Instead of focusing so much on proving herself she was able to instead move into more of a growth mindset constantly wanting to improve herself. She doesn't let losses define her but rather they shape her, teach her and develop her as an athlete and as a person. It's amazing to see that out of that transition not only came for their success but also a richer appreciation of her sport and more confidence in herself. To keep being inspired by Marielle and to follow her adventures toward Tokyo 2020. Be sure to check out the show notes where we link to everything that you heard today. Next week world champion water skier Ryan Dodd will be joining us. So be sure to subscribe to the hope sports podcast because you're not going to want to miss this one. And please leave us a review because those reviews will help us continue to get these amazing athletes on this show. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra in simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please visit Hope Sports story.

 

 

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About This Episode

“Emotional health always determines performance even when physical health is at its peak.”

Ben Houltberg joins us this week not only as a former elite runner, but also as a sports psychologist who has done extensive research on developing emotional health in athletes. Houltberg competed as a distance runner in high school, college, and then professionally. Plagued with recurrent stress fractures, he was in and out of competition and suffered from depression after each injury. This emotional roller coaster led to him pursuing studies in sports psychology in hopes of helping athletes in similar situations.

Years of research led Houltberg to determine that there are two primary ways that athletes develop their identity: either Performance Based or Purpose Based. Athletes with Performance Based Identity often have a strong fear of failure, are perfectionistic, and are not motivated by the desire to do their best, but rather to avoid a loss. On the other hand, those who have developed a Purpose Based Identity set goals that are attainable, participate in activities that are personally meaningful, and are connected to something greater than themselves that contributes to the world.

Unfortunately, Performance Based Identity often masks itself as impressive work ethic and dedication. Coaches praise team members who push themselves the hardest, work the longest, and produce the biggest results. But what they don’t realize, says Houltberg, is that Performance Based Identity is very short lived. Although results may be favorable at first, an athlete can’t maintain them. This form of identity is rooted in fear and doesn’t just illicit a psychological response, it also creates a physiological one because our bodies cannot distinguish between a threat to the body and a threat to the mind. The body reacts the same to both -- by tapping into our natural Fight or Flight response system. This system rations the body’s resources by withholding nutrition to our muscles, limiting emotional capacity, inhibiting our sleep, and more. In the end, athletes functioning in this mode will eventually become depleted on all levels before even getting to the starting line.

Houltberg shares that athletes should be aware of the markers of Performance Based Identity such as sleep disruption, finding excuses to avoid competition, lack of enjoyment in the sport, and an overriding fear of failure that is more present than an excitement to compete. Fortunately, when athletes catch themselves in this mode there are ways to shift to a more healthy mindset. Developing a Purpose Based Identity is about discovering what is valued the most and making that a priority. Athletes who pursue self-worth and service outside of sports develop a holistic framework that supports them whether they win or lose. They slowly begin to view competition as an opportunity to better themselves, rather than an arena in which they need prove themselves. They are able to reframe negative experiences, set attainable goals, and connect with people who care about them despite their achievements.

But what happens to their performance? Research shows that it actually improves. Those who develop a Purpose Based Identity not only succeed greatly at an elite level, but bounce back more quickly and fully after injury or loss, have greater longevity in their sport, and are better at regulating their emotions. Overall, they are happier and healthier athletes and individuals.

Houltberg recommends that athletes start this shift by giving back. Contributing and connecting with the greater community serves as an antidote to depression. And by discovering what they value in the world, they will be better able to better understand what they value about themselves outside of sports. This intrinsic motivation will not only benefit them on the field, but in all areas of life.

To learn more about Ben Houltberg’s research, check out the USC Performance Science Institute and all that they do to help understand and encourage healthy, holistic identities.

 

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Laura

[00:02:07] Dr. Ben Hallberg thank you so much for being on Hope Sports Podcast. We're excited you're here.

 

Ben

[00:02:21] Thank you. it's great to be here.

 

Laura

[00:02:24] Now give us a little bit of background because I know you used to be an athlete as well. Tell me kind of how you got your start and what your experience was

 

Ben

[00:02:24]Yeah. I mean, I grew up in the heartland in Kansas. And you know sports said there had been a part of my life I think from the beginning and throughout my kind of high school career, I ended up really excelling in track and field. So as a distance middle distance and distance runner mainly distance runner and high school and I started to experience success and won some state championships in track and cross country got a scholarship to college and had several offers coming out of high school and I chose to go to a school a smaller school, division1 school and then collegiately there.

 

And here's where I really started running more than a hundred meters and qualify for the NCAA championships a couple times. And then post-collegiately I got to run for U.S. indoor championships and won someone on the circuit and picked up a small sponsor and really enjoyed running. I think as you know there's a lot of athletes that probably feel this way but I think there's you know it was a challenge for me. I had eight stress fractures in my time from college to post coach collegiately. So is always that balance of training hard but being aware of this kind of propensity towards stress fractures and so I couldn't I couldn't really stay healthy long enough to keep going. And I was starting my PHC program at the time and so was 2007 I decided to stop to stop running competitively and just go full tilt and PHC program.

 

Laura

[00:04:28] Wow. So I mean I had to be pretty frustrating getting injured so frequently. I mean was part of that frustration has led you to be so interested and like the emotional health of elite athletes?

 

Ben

[00:04:32]I mean absolutely. I remember my freshman year of college I had just come from one and you know being the top in this day. And I remember lining up on the line the first time I Ripley's math weight and looking at the program and seeing how many state champions were actually on the line. There was so many of them so you kind of go from that big fish in a small pond.

 

To now a whole new world but I got into that first year and I really fell into a deep depression. It was a struggle for me. I had really built a lot of my sense of identity worth and value around running. And so, really had a pretty prosperous high school career with without too many challenges. So when I first hit that first kind of wall of getting my first stress fracture. It was really hard for me. And so you know I was kind of a constant like getting entry cross training coming back getting injured cross training coming back. And so I think that really became a part of my passion was that to help elite athletes deal with the obstacles and the emotional turmoil from being injured.

 

And I remember at the U.S. open actually I had trained. Been training so well and was it really just fantastic shape but had a lot of things going on in my life that were difficult at the time. And went to that meet and I really just-I just blew up. I just didn't run well. I had really put a lot of time and energy into getting there and I remember going back to the hotel room feeling completely alone and just sitting down in the shower and weeping and crying.

 

And there was something about that it just was so impactful for me like I had put so much time and I really felt like I was ready for a breakthrough race at that need. Then the devastation I felt when I didn't perform. I didn't really know why? I think physically I was ready at that time I didn't know why? But the more that I kind of studied this area and understood one more I've been able to kind of look back at that time in my life and say, Oh I see how I was really pulling for my resources before the race even started because of how anxious I was about not performing well. And so that belief and really the passion and purpose for me of helping athletes be able to compete with purpose and be emotionally healthy and perform well.

 

And so...

 

Laura

[00:07:36] Yeah. I love that. And I love what you've been researching along those lines of teaching about performance-based identity versus that purpose based identity. Can you explain to us what exactly is performance-based identity?

 

Ben

[00:07:36]Yeah. So performance based identity. It’s really this putting. When athletes put their soul worth and value or the main source of their worth and value into how they perform in sports. It's usually accompanied by this fear of failure that you almost as if now I'm not competing to even be my best but I'm performing I'm competing not to lose. And there's this contend to be this perfectionistic kind of concern or drive that I have to be perfect. Those three fear failure, this work, and value based on performance and this kind of perfection is concerned created. I found in my research this self-narrative or this idea about the self that was really unhealthy for athletes emotionally also contributed to poor performance. And cripple them after they had a disappointing performance. They had high levels of shame and guilt.

 

And so this performance-based identity really is can be something that's often celebrated even sometimes by coaches because this athlete might be the athlete that comes to practice every day they're grinding, they're pushing, they're doing the extra things maybe even sometimes you have to slow them down. They might even be a coach who says I wish I could bottle up with that athlete has and give it to everybody else. But the problem is there's the shadow side to that to that is unknown to a lot of people. And that's what I've found is that these athletes were where had the highest levels of depression and anxiety and weren't of life in the relationships where we're not healthy and they say they saw competition as a threat to themselves. They feared to fail. In their mindsets where were more of this kind of performance mindsets not more of that kind of growth mindset. So that's what you know, I think as I started to see this emerge in the data and all the work that I've been doing the story became really clear to me that this might motivate athletes for a while and work for a while. Like because it does push them to want to get better. But it's not sustainable over time.

 

Laura

[00:10:23] Yeah. I mean I heard you see it talked it like it can be when they're anticipating that next competition and they have that performance-based kind of identity that they can even physically experience like when you see a physiological reaction like they're being threatened by a dog or something. Can you kind of explain that? Like it's not just in your handling it comes out in other ways.

 

Ben

[00:10:45] Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I think that's what you said is really important it's not just in your head. It's in your body. It's a physiological response. So the work that I started doing early on in my career was really around this idea of emotion regulation and how people manage emotional responses especially kids from high-risk neighborhoods where they're exposed to violence on a regular basis. Physiologically what happens when you're physically threatened is your sympathetic nervous system is activated to become aware to become heightened of your surroundings and it's adaptive it's protective. But something like 100 different neuro and biophysical logical chemicals are released and changes in the body are happening in a way that pulls and manages your resources just to manage that threat.

 

[00:11:41] So in other words if the pleading you have resources just to manage that threat and what's incredible is that our body can't tell a difference between an actual threat to your physical self and a threat to your social self. So when you put your worth and value in so much into how you perform the very thought or anticipation of competition can trigger that same sympathetic nervous system as if you're being threatened that can deplete you before you ever get to the competition. I mean adrenaline is something that can be helpful as a facilitator for certain sports in certain events. But that sense of excitement that can come of just being ready for the competition. But it's not sustainable over time adrenaline cannot keep going. So if you're starting that kind of adrenaline spurts every time you think of competition two weeks, three weeks, one week out what you're doing is you're beginning to pull from your resources so when the moment comes. It's going to be really hard to turn that on. You might fall flat you might feel tired even though you've tapered you've trained well and you're ready for that moment. There's still something physiologically that that can happen with the athletes it's high performance based identity.

 

Laura

[00:12:59] That's so interesting because you like as an athlete as a high-level athlete myself. I know I do like some adrenaline I like the nerves I like that kind of heightened awareness in the competition or leading right up to it. But yeah if you're doing it weeks before you're just gonna be completely wiped out. Because like when your adrenaline is gone I mean you're left with nothing. So yeah I can imagine the toll that would take on you physically as well as mentally.

 

Ben

[00:13:30] Right. Right. I think that most high-level athletes know that feeling of like you know kind of thinking about competition and beginning to feel yourself getting amped and saying oh not yet not yet, you know? I got to keep I've got to regulate this right now. But I also think there's some you know other things that you can see and think about with performance-based identity is it's not always conscious either is that we anticipate threats often in our mind. They become a part of how we see the world and sometimes we're not even aware of it. And so we might not even be aware of that get our stress hormones high and we're stressed and that's the way the body works. And then once you kind of reach this our static load of stress it can be really hard to bounce back from that.

 

Laura

[00:14:25] Well I think. Yeah. I had seen you've written kind of some warning signs of performance-based identity that I'll just kind of list coz I guess if you're not aware. These warning signs are maybe a great way to see if you are kind of in that zone, right? So we have and let’s see. You have one sport are not fun anymore? That might be like a warning sign of a performance-based identity. Another one is fear of failure is stronger than the excitement to compete. Anxiety increases before the competition even including like sleep disruption. Bouncing back from a disappointing performance is difficult maybe there's a desire to quit or find excuses just not even to compete. Some descriptions only relate to being an athlete. You only see yourself as an athlete and not somebody separate from your sport. I also have feelings of worthlessness when not performing well. You might ruminate on mistakes made in the competition like you can't let go of jealousy or anger is distributed and demonstrated towards others performing better than you. And also an obsession develops with working harder practicing more just like you mentioned earlier. So I guess if you're not even aware. Like if you're starting to see some of those signs like you may kind of want to get yourself in check. Right?

 

Ben

[00:14:25] yeah. yeah totally.

[00:15:36] And I mean it's you know I think. You could speak to this laura and a lot of ways as a professional athlete. There are some of these warning signs that are really hard. I mean I think even it's more like the first one as far as sports not fun anymore. It's not always fun to work hard, you know that? And so I think even better are to go deeper in that thought is that there's a loss of joy for the sport. That the very thing that really attracted you to that.

 

But I also will have athletes stop and remember and think about that time where they started that sport and take them back to that time of being a child of standing maybe on the diving board for the first time or whatever it was about diving that attracted you to it. And whether it's running whatever it is. And really have them imagine themselves back in that scenario what was the feelings what were the sensations what were the things that really made this attractive. Because that's what's often lost is that the gifts and the joy of the sport become a burden. And we don't function near as well off of negative emotion as we do and he's more positive emotional states. And so there are times that negative emotions can help us and facilitate some progress. But overall that joy state of being able to really connect to what's meaningful and is really critical to being able to perform without getting you in your own way. Like you know?

 

[00:17:26] And so I think these times really are things that kind of point to and say, okay I need to maybe take a look at this and think about what is the source of my motivation and is there a way to find other more healthy motivation that can also help me be the best that I can possibly be.

 

Laura

[00:17:49] I love that. And I think it's important to point out like these are for every level of athlete can experience from you know kind of beginner like a young teenage athlete up until you know the top of the top. Like we pointed out you know Michael Phelps went in rehab after a DUI and he kind of had a summary based on his like performance-based identity and I'll quote it here he said, “I wound up uncovering a lot of things about myself for a long time I saw myself as an athlete that as the athlete that I was but not as a human being”. So nobody's really above this. Everybody can kind of be susceptible and I think sometimes we kind of go in and out of it. You've said any high achiever with a performance-based identity risk can feel devastated when they fall short of their goals or having actually even realized their dream and finding it empty.

 

[00:18:37] So I guess the big question is? Okay. Maybe we recognize that we have that performance-based identity or we-we deal with that sometimes like how do you change it?

 

Ben

[00:18:37]Yeah. Well, the first thing I would say when we talk about changing performance based identity is that it's always gonna be a process for a high achiever. There's always gonna be elements and times in life where we're all experience this kind of performance-based identity. I think it's beginning to shift it so that it's more your identity and work begins to become centered around something more meaningful in your life. The motivation is drawing from something deeper than just winning medals or proving your worth of value. That this is really when we talk about purpose is that.

 

The purpose is a powerful motivator that organizes our sense of identity around what we value the most. So a purpose is a great anecdote when we talk about this. Because purpose involves really three things. The first thing purpose involves is doing something that is personally meaningful to you. The second thing is having a goal or an aim that you're moving towards. So both of those are very easy in the sport to kind of capture. But the third piece is really important and this piece is that you're connected to something that is greater than yourself that makes a contribution to this world. One of the things that we've seen in the research is that people who have these three parts of purpose there's something about giving to others is something about doing something beyond yourself and connecting to something meaningful beyond yourself. There really is stabilizing in our sense of identity it gives us a sense of it starts with us really understanding our own sense of worth and value. It's hard to be. It's hard to create value if you don't feel like you're a person of value. And I think that's what becomes really key and purpose is it is a way to begin to help form our sense of worth and identity in something that's much more foundational than just performance.

 

And so we found that this purpose based identity that involves the self-worth and value that I understand their self-worth and value outside of just sports as well as this purpose and even a view of myself in the future after sport. These athletes also were just as accomplished and their performance was just as high. There’s no difference in our athletes that were in this performance-based versus purpose based identity. But they by far emotionally psychologically and the way they viewed competition and the way they bounce back from the competition were much superior to the performance-based identity athletes. They were able to identify and turn to other people in relationships for emotional support and in ways that were helpful for them. They had higher levels of life satisfaction feeling good about their life. They were able to regulate their emotions better. There's a great emotion regulation strategy that's really important called reappraisal and we can kind of redefine our reframe a negative situation in a way that allows us to overcome it that allows us to not be hijacked emotionally by it.

 

And so these are the purpose space that any athletes were able to do that better. They saw competition as a challenge. They embraced opportunity to become better. And so that to me is really what I think is the shift it's shifting from this performance-based identity to purpose-based identity. But there's always going to be a flux there that we have to be aware of and know and become aware of when we're going kind of more towards performance-based identity side of saying Ok well how do I get back to purpose understanding that and let that motivate me. Because sports is. The nature of sports and high achievement you have to work hard. You have to make lots of sacrifices. You want to be able to push yourself beyond what you ever thought you could. Those are all healthy pursuits. But what drives it really matters and that's the part that's going to impact your emotional and relational health.

 

Laura

[00:23:13] And that doesn't keep you going when things get tough too. For sure.

 

Ben

[00:23:13]  Absolutely.

 

Laura

[00:23:13] Questions. So if people are finding that their kind of performance-based and they're struggling with that that they're recognizing it they want to become where purpose-based. These relationships are really important for that. Like what if they're a little isolated? Like they don't have a lot of support of people around them. Like what can they do to get past that and get through that and find that purpose?

 

Ben

[00:23:13]  Yeah. I mean. I think that's often a result of this performance based identity is this even if it's on purpose to this isolation for meaningful relationships. And so, I think that the reason why relationships are so powerful. Healthy relationships are so powerful is because they remind you that you are of worth and value. They remindyou of your uniqueness. That somebody cares about you deeply not just for what you can do for them but because of who you are.

 

So when I work with athletes one of the first steps that I do is really try to help them engage and the people around them. Often there is somebody around them that they've had a meaningful relationship with and a healthy way that maybe they need to reconnect with and be reminded of a really simple task to do this. Had one athlete who I had her give the people that she knew around her that cared about her and had to give them little sheets of paper that they were supposed to write something. How did they saw her? How would they describe her  And then, they were to fold them up to tape on and she wasn't supposed to look at them. So they brought him back and then I kind of did this mindful activity with her. And just had it which is really just kind of giving her space to focus on her breathing and being present. And then, I read these statements to her knowing that these were all people who cared about her. The statements that were being read about her were so different than how she saw herself when it came to the more negative things. So it was challenging her negative self-talk through the voice of meaningful relationships. And I think that was really positive for her now.

 

Now the goal was to get her to start to internalize that voice for herself. Relationships are powerful because it reminds us of our worth and value. We do better when we're connected. We face challenges better we do with pain better. There's lots of great research to show this. And so the relationships become really a foundation for helping people begin to shift from front space with them and giving them a sense of worth that helps them now start to think about what is my kind of meaning and purpose, and what can I to do differently in practice every day whether it's learning to the practice of gratitude or generosity of doing things for other people or challenging negative self-talk. That begin over time to create habits that they get and become a part of our identity.

 

Laura:

[0026:29]So powerful! So many good takeaways here. Now, with all of this good information thinking of the athletes and maybe where they might be if they could take away one thing like one thing they should do today that would help them move more toward that purpose based identity. What would you suggest?

 

Ben:

[00:26:47]One of the thing that I think is often most powerful is to have athletes reflect on what is meaningful in their life. Often people will be able to talk about what's meaningful in their lives but they actually don't connect that to their athletic pursuit. They often kind of keep them separate. When you get somebody who talks about things like their family that their family is that's a value for them as is their relationship with their family. Why is that a value for you? What is it about that? It's a value and that you know it's just a connection and that's love and this loyalty and you start to see these things. So the first thing I would say is to sit down and write down, what is meaningful to you? What do you value? What are the things that you value about yourself or the things that you see as important values in your life? And then next to it really write down how are you living in that every day? Like what is your current life patterns and habits that they would be consistent with those things that you say you value? And just taking stock of that. And often with performance-based identity what you'll find is what's meaningful and valued at a deep level. And there might be things on that list like winning gold medals, breaking records or things like that.

 

There's nothing wrong with that but if that's the only dominant values in someone's life. That's where it gets challenging. And so thinking and pushing yourself to not just think about the athletic value or calls or pursuits but beginning to think about what is in life that brings most meaning to you and fulfillment to you and then how are you living in that every day. That can be an honest assessment of where you're at. I think that's important. I would say though that I would say don't wait till you feel like making the shift go. I mean this is a maybe a plug for Hope sports but go do. I mean the power of going to build with hope sports is is that you're doing something for the other and then you can start to really reflect on what that. Why is that meaningful to you? And if you can't make it to a build do it find some things that are meaningful to you and your neighborhood and your community and recognize that this isn't just good PR to go do good for others that when you do good for others that's just important as important for the transformation of your own identity. And I think that starts to give you a taste of what purposes it was possible with purpose. And once you get a taste of what's the possible purpose you will continue to go after it. Because it brings fulfillment in a different way.

 

Laura

[00:29:54] And then that's going to move you past sport too. Because if you have an injury and you have to retire or if you're just it's time to move on. Like what is going to be in your life and how do you focus and move on if you've always just been performance-based do. You have to know. As you said, what your value is in the value in others and you have to have that purpose beyond your sport to really kind of be successful in life too.

 

Ben

[00:30:17] Absolutely yeah. And that's a reality that I think is it can be really difficult to face for a lot of athletes. When they're done competing, what now? And for some athletes that's you know 21 for some that's 24, 25 some sports got go up to you know later in life and 40s and 50s, you know? But there's still a time where you finish and you have to say, okay what? How do I? What do I start to put my time and energy and now it's meaningful. And I think if you can start that as an athlete it's such a good foundation for that transition.

 

Laura

[00:30:58] And just for those of you who may not be aware of what Hope Sports is? This is the Hope Sports Podcast from an amazing organization called Hope Sports that brings athletes together to come down to Mexico in impoverished countries to build homes for the poor. And not only are you making a difference for a family that does not have a roof over their heads or does not have a solid foundation to stand on. But you also are impacted in just amazingly dramatic ways and all the people around you. It's such an incredible experience! And like Ben said, it's a great way to find value and purpose outside of yourself if you don't know how to do that. It is an amazing way to start.

 

And you know, check out HopeSports.org to learn more about that organization. An amazing organization that is sponsoring this podcast.

 

So, Ben? You are amazing and inspiring us all to go beyond our sport and find purpose in our sport, through our sport, in our lives. Where can we find you on the interwebs so that we can follow you and continue to get all this valuable information?

 

Ben

[00:31:57] Yeah. I do a lot of my work at a center called the Thrive Center for Human Development. And You can go to the website at TheThriveCenter.org. You can also follow me on my social media I'm on Instagram and also started on Twitter. So, try to gain like add more to Twitter coz I'm getting better at it.

 

Laura:

[00:32:51]I'm on a hundred nobody cared less.

 

Ben:

[00:32:54]Right. Seriously, like just like a whole another language. So then I'm on Facebook too. It's just been hoping you can find me on any of those social media sites. So I'm trying to continue to put more resource out there for athletes and because this is my purpose. This is what I feel passionate about. It gives meaning to my life. And yes. Feel free to reach out to me if you want more information and there are lots of articles and readings on twice on a website.

 

Laura

[00:33:26] Awesome. I think that's so poetic. Your purpose is to give other people purpose and I think that's absolutely beautiful. Ben thank you for coming on today. We really appreciate having you.

 

Ben

[00:33:36] Thanks, Laura.

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About This Episode

In this episode, Andrew East shares about his winding journey to professional football. Growing up in Indianapolis with several brothers, Andrew remembers attending football games as a kid and being wowed by the stadium, players, and abilities of the athletes. His older brothers, Guy and JD, were especially influential in turning his interest towards playing. He credits becoming a long snapper, however, to his father who played collegiate football at Purdue in the same position. Andrew recalls that, although he was successful in his position at a Division 1 high school, he wasn’t necessarily setting his sights on playing in college and definitely never dreamed of the NFL.

His goals changed, however, when he attended a summer football intensive at Vanderbilt University. Upon connecting with some of the coaches, Andrew began to entertain the idea of continuing his career. As the months of his senior year passed, though, and no calls came in with offers, he settled on playing Division 3 football on the same team as his older brother, JD.

All of these plans quickly shifted when Andrew got a phone call late in the spring offering him a scholarship spot at Vanderbilt. Aware that the roster had been filled, he learned that space had opened up on the team due to tragic circumstances. A fellow signee, Rajaan Bennett, had been tragically murdered by his mother’s ex-boyfriend as he attempted to protect his younger brother with special needs. Andrew shares that as he took the position on the team, it was never lost on him that his opportunity to play came at the price of another young man’s life. Even when practices were brutal and the balance with school seemed impossible, he always played in honor of Rajaan. Andrew finished at Vanderbilt with a Bachelors in Engineering and also completed his MBA -- all while serving as two time captain of the team.

After graduation he joined the Kansas City Chiefs and expresses how unprepared he was for the transition to professional football. Unlike college football, there is nothing else to focus other than practice, games, and performance. Andrew shares that he began hyper-analyzing every play both on and off the field. He only ever thought about football -- reliving mistakes and obsessing over form. This tunnel vision, compounded with the pressure of playing at the professional level, led to struggles with anxiety and panic attacks. The attacks became more and more frequent until he was eventually let go from the Chiefs. He was shocked, devastated, and disappointed. Sure that this was the end of his NFL career, he wallowed for several months not knowing what he would do next.

He credits his girlfriend at the time, Olympic gold medalist gymnast Shawn Johnson-East, for helping to pull him out of his stupor. Her encouragement plus support from his family led him on a journey of discovering emotional health and balance. He began focusing on other hobbies like film making, entrepreneurial endeavors, and supporting her budding YouTube channel. As he regained his footing and became more well rounded, the NFL offers came rolling back in. Over the past four years Andrew has played on seven different NFL teams. And although hopping around is not necessarily ideal, having other areas of interest and success has made each one of those transitions easier.

Outside of football he consults in social media development and small film editing -- something you wouldn’t expect from a guy who couldn’t be found online just a few years ago. Never really interested in being in the spotlight, East has followed the lead of his wife, Shawn, who has dealt with athletic fame since she was just 14 years old. They were introduced to one another by his brother, former professional cyclist Guy East, who met Shawn at the Olympics. Andrew shares about his spontaneous engagement at a Chicago Cubs game because, “once I had the ring, I just couldn’t wait.” Now married, they approach their social media presence as an opportunity to help others, build community, and connect with people they might not otherwise. This was evident as they publicly shared about their miscarriage in 2017. Thousands of messages poured in from followers who appreciated their vulnerability and honesty about a painful subject that often leaves couples feeling isolated.

Having never fathomed playing in the NFL or running a social media business, Andrew has learned to simply be grateful. His unique journey has even led him to start his own podcast entitled ReDirected, which highlights individuals who have experienced unexpected career shifts that have been surprisingly life giving. He may not know what is next for him, but acknowledges that an openness to new opportunities and balance through all areas of his life are essential to his success both on and off the field.

 

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Laura: Welcome Andrew East. I'm so excited you could join us today.

 

Andrew:

Thank you for having me on.

 

Laura:

Yeah. Well, first I kind of want to set the stage a little bit. Tell us briefly about your background like how you got your start in football and how it led to where you are now.

 

Andrew

Yes, I was born and raised in Indianapolis Indiana and my dad played football at Purdue and he kind of inspired in us the will to play football. And I remember my oldest brother Guy was a fanatic for football and just absolutely loved getting people's autographs. We'd go to the Colts practices and do any event related to football. And so I kind of looked at what my older brother is doing. I was like, hey you know what football does seem like a pretty cool sport. And so he got into it. My second older brother JT got into it and then I naturally fell into it and so I played ever since I was in second grade. I've been playing football and I've loved it. It's been so great. I feel like I've learned so many awesome life lessons from football. And so super fortunate to just have that sport and experience in my life and it's led to so many quality relationships and experiences that I never dreamed of ever having when I was an eight-year-old starting out fast forward you know maybe in twenty-six now and it's just been an awesome adventure sport has a way of doing that for sure.

 

Laura

What made you fall in love with football like was it something specific or just kind of that family connection you guys had?

 

Andrew

So Initially, I think I again my oldest brother Guy was just all about the autographs and just idolized these players and I think initially my draw to it was kind of the shiny lights and the fame and all that portion of it. But then once you start playing and you experience the team environment you experience the everyday kind of adversity that gets thrown at you physically and mentally. I think the constant growth that I was experiencing is what really continued my passion for it even though initially it was, Hey I want to be like my older brother and I want to be somebody that little kids like my older brother would idolize.

 

Laura

I love that. That's great. Now you went on from high school to play in college. Was that vastly different? Or was it not too much of a change from high school to college football?

 

Andrew

I was not ready for college football at all. Coming from high school I took football seriously or so I thought. And then in Indiana, we played in a pretty tough conference. USA Today had our high school conference rated like second toughest in America.

 

So I thought that I was playing. I love football but then you show up and down south.

 

They have year-round football and I had never played one sports year round. I was always doing football and basketball and baseball and rugby and I love to play different sports but I've never fully devoted myself to one sport like you're forced to do in college and so that was definitely a new experience. And then the level of athleticism and strength and discipline and dedication is just completely different than it was in high school. And so it took me a little bit to adjust to that difference but once I kind of understand how the whole system worked I absolutely loved it. Because again there are so many opportunities. I feel I can prove yourself and learn really.

 

Laura:

Did playing around it.

Did that get old?

I mean you're used to changing up to different sports like how did you keep it from getting boring? I guess...

 

Andrew

So the coaches do a good job of keeping it interesting. They have a kind of different phases of competition is how our coaches structured. So in the off-season while we would still be doing football drills they would make it fun and have us compete in kind of different athletic competitions like tug of war or whatever it is and they put you on teams and you're still kind of progress toward your goal of being a good football player but they make it fun in the process. I was fortunate to have really really good coaches that had the foresight and the wisdom to not just be football football football all the time which I think proved invaluable.

 

Laura

That's great.

 

Andrew

Yeah

 

Laura

Well, so you didn't just play football in college you were also the team captain for two years and you're studying engineering in a little school called Vanderbilt. So how do you balance all of that?

 

Andrew

Not well. I'll tell you that it was definitely tough. And my first year at Vanderbilt I did not enjoy much. I thought that I was going to play college football with my older brother at Wheaton College which was like a little D3 Christian school. But actually, the story of how I ended up at Vanderbilt was kind of what inspired me to stick around. I wasn't a highly recruited player out of college. I did have opportunities to play out of high school. I had opportunities to play at Princeton and some smaller schools which would have been great. Obviously, Princeton is a great school. But football-wise I was so headstrong on playing division1 and so I was going to take any opportunity that came my way and fortunately I went down to a football camp the summer of my junior year and that summer was fully devoted to just trying to make that dream happen.

 

My parents were so supportive of that, my siblings were so sacrificial and like giving up their time and going on these family vacations together that would just be essentially a football trip for me. But I went down to Vanderbilt summer camp and I had a really I think good performance down there. But more importantly, I connected with one of the coaches in a deep way we like. I don't even know how the whole conversation started. But right off the bat, we were kind of talking about our faith and how that's impacted us as men and in our sport. And so I was like super encouraged I think wow Vanderbilt is going to be the school I go to and it's great because you know it seems like there are coaches around that really care for me as a human being beyond just my athletic capabilities. But I didn't hear from them for I guess it is eight months after that? And so science college signing day came and went in February no division1 offers. And I was like well you know I'll go play D3 and that'll be great because Wheaton is an awesome school and I'll get to play with my brother.

 

But I get a call two months after signing day super late in the process even for kids who are not playing sports like most of my peers had decided already where they're going to go to school. But I was just holding now and I got a call from the head Vanderbilt coach and offered me a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt. And I was very confused because following the news it seemed like there were no more scholarships that Vanderbilt could give. And so I asked him that “well how did this come about? I didn't think that you guys had any more to offer”. And he said, “well the highest rated recruit the venerable I've ever had his name was Rajaan Bennett. He's out of Atlanta was a running back. Awesome guy. His mother's boyfriend broke in the middle of the night and started just pulled out a gun just was shooting around the house and Rajaan jumped in front of his handicapped little brother and saved his life but took a bullet in the process and so Rajaanlost his life”.

 

And so that scholarship spot opened up and the coaches wanted to give it to me. And so here I was absolutely just floored because simultaneously the most tragic but wonderful thing just happened to me. Like this is my childhood dream that I've worked for and sacrificed so much for and I wanted to play Division 1 football but never that I ever think it was going to be under such tragic circumstances as you know a spot opened me up because somebody had died.

 

And that experience really shaped my experience at Vanderbilt as a whole. Because in a lot of ways I'm not going to say day in and day out. I was thinking about Rajaan but it was always a constant thought of I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Rajaan.And so on the toughest days were the workouts are awful or the coaches are just really riding you or your grades are struggling and you don't have the balance. I was like, wow this opportunity has been given to me because this one kid made the ultimate sacrifice like he gave his life to save his brother. And here I am kind of picking up the scraps of this wonderful human being and I benefit from it. And so it was very difficult but that was kind of the backdrop to my whole experience.

 

My first two years I struggled hard I just didn't go along with the coaches was really like not exceeding in the classroom. And then, ultimately it came down to me having a coach James Franklin who stepped in and changed my experience completely like just a guy that believed in me and who I was and I felt kind of self-conscious about me being a variable in the first place because of the circumstances that got me there. But he stepped in and was like, “Hey Andrew you belong here and you can thrive here”. And it wasn't until I had that voice to speak into me. As well as an awesome mentor John Stokes who is a senior on the team. I think those two people really inspired me to step up and not just be at Vanderbilt but thrive at Vanderbilt and want to make a difference.

 

So ultimately I walked away to the two-time captain as you said. I set the tie the record for the most game started. Of any player and I got an undergraduate degree and a masters degree from Vanderbilt all under the scholarship and I like to look back on that I'm like wow what Incredibly just a wild experience you know.

 

Laura

Yeah. Sounds like it started off as an immense amount of pressure turned into with the help of a coach and a good teammate turned into something absolutely amazing. That's yeah. That's crazy.

 

Andrew

I'm fortunate that much.

 

Laura

So what happened after you graduated? You said you got your masters. So then what?

 

Andrew

I graduate with my MBA and in 2015 I got picked up as an undrafted free agent to the Kansas City Chiefs and I never could ever dream of me going to the NFL because again I was not highly recruited high school and I was like a decent player at Vanderbilt but I was more I think kind of like the locker room guy that people enjoyed having around. So when I started here from NFL teams and all these agents were contacting me it was out of this world. I was like wow. I literally didn't even dream about this but it's happening to me. And so I spent three months with the chiefs and ended up getting released and that's been the whole entire journey in and of itself.

 

Laura

Well, I know you've expressed how the initial pressure of professional sports may because you didn't expect it led to struggles with anxiety. Can you tell us about that a little bit?

 

Andrew

Yeah. So in college, I had never struggled with the psychological side of the sport. I think it is because I had amazing teammates around me amazing coaches and I think almost like the distraction of having school to worry about. There's just so many different things that take up your mind space in college but in professional football I showed up in Kansas City and it was football all the time like I would wake up go to a facility we do practice and I go back and I'd stretch and visualize and do all these drills on my own and it got to a point where I was having these anxiety attacks because I didn't think of anything else but football. And so I was just kind of overthinking the tiniest things which put me in a really really negative headspace. And ultimately I would like to walk in and I wouldn't be able to make eye contact with any of the players or the coaches because constantly I had this fear like a shadow follow me around that you know Hey today's the day I'm going to get cut because I didn't do X Y or Z correctly and is crazy because the chiefs pick me up and they're like hey you're our guy like you we want you to be our guy for the next 10 years. And I was like sweet. Like what an awesome. Well, what an awesome position but they brought in competition just because from my position that's what's normal and but they're like this is just kind of a formality. You're our guy. And so I started overthinking the little things and then had these just demons kind of haunting me constantly. Like I really lost myself in overthinking that tiny details. Yeah, that's ultimately ended up getting me cut just because I could not handle the pressure of always being football.

 

Laura

I mean, how do you move past that? Look I know you've had this happen several times I think you said seven times that you’ve gotten on a team and then they've had to let you go. Like how is it always kind of feel like the same thing or has every situation been different like how do you deal with that? You just seem to handle it so incredibly well.

 

Andrew

Well, let me say the first time I got cut from the Chiefs I was just in tears. And so my wife Shawn and I were together at the time and it was three days off just like kind of mourning. But simultaneously this relief because I all the sudden what was dominating my world and my thoughts football was kind of gone and not by my choice. So it was like this weird. I'm glad that's over. But wow. Like what do we do now? And so I was like sitting on the couch for three months and kind of depressed and didn't really know what I was going to do professionally and I felt worthless and a lot of ways but. Fortunately, I had an awesome fiance at the time Shawn and I had gotten engaged that summer and I have an amazing family. And so my brothers were there to support me and like really kind of speak life back into me. So I think those are the biggest things that help me get back on my feet.

 

Laura

Yeah. So important to surround yourself with just good people that can lift you up when you need it right?

 

Andrew

Yeah absolutely.

 

Laura

Now you mentioned your now wife Shawn Johnson East and she's an Olympic gold medalist in gymnastics. So I got to ask are you guys competitive at all?

 

Andrew

Oh my God! It's non-stop Laura non-stop in the smallest things like cooking or darts or like pranks playing.

 

Laura

You guys play pranks on each other all the time.

 

Andrew

You know I feel like she plays where breaks on me that I do on her. Yeah, we have fun.

 

Laura

Okay, so you have to spill it like what is the most embarrassing prank or the best way that she's gotten you?

 

Andrew

I love to dance to Laura. I love to dance. I dance gladly in front of my wife. But she'll always kind of sneak some video and blasted out to the Internet. And so I like to laugh at it but in the back of my mind, I'm like, you know what? That's actually extremely very embarrassing.

 

Laura

It's nice. Well, I know you posted today that you were a little disappointed because she didn't know that chick fil a had waffle fries. So I'm going to have to say you need to change that because Chick fil A is very very important.

 

Andrew

So do you believe that? I mean this is an opportunity for growth in a marriage. You know if I've ever seen.

 

Laura

Definitely.

 

It's like you don't even know her. So ok you guys have like a massive Instagram and YouTube following you have over 300,000 followers on Instagram. She has a million and a half. You guys have kind of become this whole brand just in your marriage. What drew. Right?

 

I mean how has this changed your relationship or how people see you or even how you see yourself?

 

Andrew

I'll point to my wife. My wife Shawn is just an absolute rock star and she has been dealing with this I guess celebrity in one form or another ever since she was like 12. And so she has such a level head about the whole thing that it has helped me immensely. Because I mean I come from a super solid family and I would never like think that having Instagram followers are like you know people taking pictures with you. I find no purpose in that still but it is so easy to get seduced by that and like tempted into like oh like what I have to do to get more followers. And I don't think I've ever admitted that. But like I think just being honest about this is actually something that we need to be conscious of and we honestly don't do it for the followers. But I think it's cool that we have built the following because Shawn has been vulnerable to the world and she's kind of help to show me how to do that. I didn't have any social media before I met Shawn.

 

I actually created a Twitter account so that I could talk to Shawn because we were hooked up through guy my oldest brother. They met at the 2012 Olympics and his kind of put me in touch but our first contact was

 

through Twitter and I actually created all my social media accounts because of various social media. It kind of makes me sick to think about but like I was super anti-social media and as years have gone byIt's like there are so many things good too it was bad too. And so we just had to have conversations about it and we try to surround ourselves with friends who are level-headed about the whole thing as well and don't care about social media. But honestly, it's like it's not a huge deal for us and that's when we talk about a lot. But it's fun. I'll take that much.

 

Laura

Well, that's good. That's good.

 

I mean all these all this social media just this branding of you guys it just seems to have led to entrepreneurship and now your own podcast and it was it's just kind of a natural progression for you.

 

Andrew

No, not at all.

 

I would say natural progression. So I guess... I was... I studied engineering at Vanderbilt and my intention was to build wells in a third world country and my kind of wanted to follow my brother's steps. Obviously, you know that's the hope sports podcast my brother builds houses for impoverished families like all around the world. And so I was really again I was inspired with him and his love for football and I was inspired with him and his servant's heart. And so that's why I did civil engineering and even went to business school so I would like to figure out how to set up the whole organization around that. But then with the whole football thing happening we got cut short and getting engaged.

 

People like when Shawn and I got engaged. I did it in a super public manner. I didn't plan it at all but we did it at Wrigley Field. And I just got the ring the day before and I thought I was going to hang onto it for a couple months but I didn't. And so Shawn was thrown out the first pitch at Wrigley and so I proposed at Wrigley and it made like national news. You know people anybody who had that ESPN or Yahoo Sports app I got a push notification like hey Shawn Johnson was just engaged it made really feel like it was a bid

 

Laura

That was not planned?

 

 

Andrew

I didn't plan it at all. It just gives you a hard time.

 

It's like wow that's really not romantic. They didn't put any thought to what I like on the drive up to Chicago from Indianapolis or where I was coming from I like I called USA Gymnastics issues up there during the first pitch out for and then they put me in touch with the Cubs. Like this is two hours before the whole thing happened and they're like hey you know we'll make a jersey with her new last name on it and like that was as much planning as one that's still pretty good.

 

That's it. The Cubs fans like it but I didn't think we'd be doing a stadium proposal or any of that.

 

That brought a lot of attention to us. Like as far as I said a couple and then I guess there's like four weeks after that I got cut and as I said I'm just laying around on the couch just felt worthless. And so I had to just take the smallest step of progression and I had a friend who had started a YouTube channel and so I was like you know what maybe it is fun to document our wedding planning process together and then kind of put. I was really excited to start a YouTube channel. I think my wife is the coolest person out there and I think that you know the more people get to see over the better. And so we started this youtube channel and it's grown to this like social media. You know this is we're not doing consulting in it's turned into something crazy. And again I was anti-social media like less than five years ago and now I really love it and I don't think there's any better way to connect people to educate people than social media. So it was not natural but it's been phenomenal.

 

Laura

That's great.

 

Andrew

Yeah, I know.

 

Laura

What your podcast about?

 

Andrew

Called redirected and it's about people who have experienced career redirections who have started out life on one trajectory and have been redirected into another trajectory and that's been my experience with you know going from engineering to football and football now and to social media and so I've sat down with UFC fighters who start off as like air conditioner installers. One guy. Yeah. Todd was you know Series 6 and Series 7 financial advisor and dropped all that just to fitness to do like you know personal fitness training. And so it's really cool. I love having a reason to reach out to somebody that I probably otherwise wouldn't. And then subsequently have a really quality conversation about you know this redirection often occur in times of you know it's difficult these changes and so that to be able to kind of discuss those difficulties leads to like some really cool conversation. So I've loved there were six or seven episodes and it's been awesome so far.

 

Laura

That’s great!That's got to be very powerful for you to just have been obviously in the same shoes. I'm sure.

 

Andrew

Absolutely sure.

 

Laura

Now you and Shawn last year shared pretty openly about losing a child to miscarriage. How how did that heartbreak affect your marriage?

 

Andrew

Again Shawn is an absolute rock star and like she just... it was way harder I think on her. As is often the case in miscarriages you know the female has so much going on just like there's the connection to the baby that the male just like doesn't quite have and then the hormonal side of it as well. She was an absolute light through the entire situation and we decided... she really decided to share it. We had documented it all just because we thought this is going to be our first kid and we want kind of like this home video footage and then it ended up being you know this sad story of a miscarriage. But we felt she says that she wanted to share it because she really didn't know how to cope with it herself. And so she was kind of begging for people to drop wisdom on her and help her through it. And so the response from that whole video was absolutely astounding like that. The number of people that reached out and said hey you know I've never told anybody this but I went through the same thing and it's something that I've struggled with constantly. Like you know we lost our childlike 10 weeks along the pregnancy and so many people have you know have these crazy stories of losing twins seven months along. And again just having shared that story has led to so many awesome relationships and awesome conversations and I feel like it's really helped people feel comfortable and really want to seek out consolation for like that's the whole reason we did it in the first place. So Shawn was just an absolute stud to the whole thing and she should never cease to impress me.

 

Laura

Well, I think it's really cool that you guys were just so open to being vulnerable and sharing such a difficult experience because it's something that people don't talk about and so that had such purpose in it even though it was so heartbreaking for you guys to walk through that is just so purpose driven. Like just speaking into other people's lives where we're like you said Shawn didn't know how to deal with it. Nobody told her what to do. So when people see that like they understand what somebody else is going through and there's that connection and they don't feel so isolated and alone going through that. I think that's just huge. So I really really appreciate you guys near vulnerability and your honesty. I think that's amazing.

 

Andrew

Yeah well, I'd say it was from a marriage perspective it did take us probably two months to recover just because there are so many conversations that follow up on that like well why did we have a miscarriage. I guess it's something wrong with that like just kind of its really tough conversation to have. And so it took us two months to recover from that and be able to be comfortable fully again with each other which is crazy. I mean again there's only 10 weeks along and I had only known about the news that she was pregnant for like twelve hours like legitimately. She told me we were both away and she was doing press for her new TV show venture capitalists and she was in New York for The Today Show and I had gone from a trial with the Lions directly to a trial with the Giants. And so she was like Hey I need to see you. I have something to tell you. And so it was her time and she was pregnant she was you know that's in and of itself is a super emotional thing because the first time it's the first time she's pregnant so she didn't really know how to deal with all thing. So we got back together in Los Angeles like eleven thirty at night. She told me she's pregnant and I didn't get a week of sleep that night. I was like wow this is crazy. So when you wake up and you kind of like start thinking about Okay well what are we gonna name them and you know you kind of have this picture in your mind of what is going to look like and you kind of start designing his room and picking out his clothes like even from the very get-go. You just kind of get pumped about that dream. Yeah. I mean there is an initial like terror that I experience wow you get it like it is actually. But then like you get super excited about it. So she yeah like that. That is, it's just such a roller coaster and so it took us about two months to recover and we actually end up taking a kind of a little getaway to Europe together as a kind of a way to kind of bond back together after that. And that was an amazing trip and that's you know I think it just spending quality time together really helped us get back on our feet and yeah.

 

Laura

That's good. Now kind of switching beer gears back into football like now that you've been through so much you've kind of got this entrepreneurial thing going too but yet you're still training you're still trying out for teams like where are you with that like what are your dreams and goals and expectations now with football?

 

Andrew

It's so tricky Laura. It's tough. This is something that we are going through right now. I just was with the JAG wires and was released like less than three weeks ago. And I spent you know like four or five weeks with the team and was the Raiders before that. Earlier this year. So I've now signed seven contracts in four years and with five different teams which is not what I thought my NFL career would look like. But then I take a step back and it's like well I think about the whole thing. I'm like well I never even thought that I would have an NFL career. You know it was my childhood dream to play Division 1 football and I accomplished that dream in a fuller capacity than I ever could have imagined. And NFL football was never something that I really even thought was a true possibility. So I step back and I look at what my goals truly were and I think I've accomplished most of that. Most of those goals that I've set out to accomplish and so at the end of the day you know if I don't get picked up by another team I think I'll be all right with that. And I can walk away from football in peace. Now there's still as I would love to have a 15-year career if that's how it pans out. But I've been trying not to get caught up in this treadmill of goals and ambition. You know like talking to my friends who have played in the league for years. It's interesting because they're like yeah you are. I never thought I would play NFL football. And so you know it's cool that I'm here and then you play. Your goal is to just play one game and then fell and then you do that and then the next thing is well now you want to play one season and then it's well now you want to be in the Pro Bowl and now you want to like it. It's kind of it's never-ending. I view it like a treadmill. I think it's great to continue to reassess and set the bar even higher but it's a fine line. I don't. I'm still working through it. Honestly Laura I know it's difficult so I think if I walked away right now that I would be totally fine and I've made somebody really like awesome relationships with the players and the coaches and have the experience you know living in four different cities of all the NFL so it's been a really cool experience.

 

Laura

But you're not quite ready to walk away and you kind of that tear, right? You like that. Yeah I mean I don't think you're alone in that I think a lot of us go through that whether it's in sports or in your career beyond. I mean there's always that pull you know, do I keep going? Am I ready to hang it up? Like what's the right time? Sometimes it's not an easy cut and dry thing. I remember being jealous. I knew a lot of swimmers like in college and growing up like they would finish their collegiate career and they were done and they were so happy to hang it up and just be done. I'm like how do you know? Like I've never really felt. Like how do you just know? I wish I just do.

 

Andrew

Yeah I know I know.

 

Laura

You're not alone. I totally understand you.

 

Andrew

I actually had a friend call me and talked him in and he was like hey man like you know I don't know if you should be doing this anymore. It's like well thank you but I keep getting calls from teams and so clear like they kind of like still want me to do it. And so that's what I like. It's not a black or white situation. It's like well it's a little more nuanced. And at this point I kind of view it as interesting content and interesting experiences for us to share. Like me getting cut. I shared me getting cut from the Jaguars and the response from that was like really cool to hear how other people had dealt with like career changes and gone through that with your spouse. So that's kind of how you and the whole situation. But we'll see what happens here.

 

Laura

Something that you've been through so much I mean you've got this awesome celebrity life you're an entrepreneur you're still training for the NFL but you've experienced all these ups and downs. How does your identity not get lost in the shuffle like in all the chaos? How do you still find your purpose? Where do you find that?

 

Andrew

Gosh, it is tough. As I said there are so many things around each of us whether you're you know in the spotlight like you doing the social media thing like we are or your brother works in finance and there are so many things around us that are like there to tempt us and kind of pull you away from your roots. And I do think it's important to change and you know I think I've changed dramatically over the past 10 years. I think that's good. And I think at the end of the day though my core identity has remained intact and I was fortunate enough to be raised in an awesome Christian household and have brothers that they love me and support me in that. And as I said Guy’s obviously doing amazing things with his organization. And so we met my wife and I try to have daily monthly and yearly disciplines that we do that we can always point back to keep us on track and so on and on a daily basis. We always do quick evaluations and it's almost like a prayer session of like a year or like today here's where our goals are like here's our kind of vision of what this is going to look like and then monthly we have conversations as husband-wife of what we call monthly checkups of. It's just like this open and raw conversation of you know what here's something that you can work on too on this for this next month and here's something I thought you did really well this past month and I think kind of always keeping each other in check like that. And so it's not just like you're you're going through the daily motions and you kind of get lost in the chaos that's been really really helpful for us. And then yearly we do things, like make it down to two you want to build a house with my brother's organization, hope sports and that's that is just such a perspective changer for us. But yeah it's just. We spent so much time in Los Angeles where you see you know Ferraris and Lamborghinis rolling around the streets and kind of like become numb to that. And it's like this cultural I guess blindness that you have. But then you've got to go down to a place like you want to where people live in under tarps and gosh it's just like wild poverty and you have this weekend where you can share this amazing experience of building a house for this family in need and doing it with people who are similar to you has just proved absolutely invaluable for us. And so those we kind of yeah we have those daily monthly and yearly disciplines that we try to maintain that helps us keep our core identity.

 

Laura

I love that you guys do that on a daily monthly yearly. I love that you do it together. And I guess this is I think just for accountability and just for having somebody else speaking into your life for the positive and the negative like maybe what needs to be worked on or what needs to be changed. But also to build you up and what you're doing right. I think it is a great idea to kind of get outside of where you are to get a different perspective a perspective change because that can sometimes you know to catapult you in a completely new direction and change your perspective and maybe what you're doing. I think that's awesome really really great. Tips and tricks and tools and appreciate you sharing that help.

 

Andrew

Yes, I know.

 

Laura

Now how can we find you follow you online? Give us all your social media your YouTube channel. Let us know how to consistently be inspired by you and we just love how you share your vulnerability. You're honest and transparent. We just really appreciate it. So how can we follow you?

 

Andrew

Well, I don't know how much inspiration you'll find. Hopefully a few laughs and maybe some smiles along the way. But my Instagram Twitter and Facebook are all Andrew D East. My wife and I have a YouTube channel it's called Shawn Johnson official. We do that and then I'm actually starting my own channel Andrew D East this is how you can search for it. I have the podcast which I really enjoy doing. That's called the redirected and you can find that on the iTunes Store or Stitcher or wherever you find your podcast. And I think those are part of the main outlets. Yeah.

 

Laura

Well, Andrew, you've been great. Really appreciate you taking time to share your story with us and show us how you found purpose in your life. We appreciate that.

 

Andrew

Thanks for having me on.

 

Laura

No problem.

 

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or find the file at http://traffic.libsyn.com/hopesports/HS-Hope-Sports-Conversations-About-Purpose.mp3

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Listen with your favorite podcast app:

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About This Episode

This is not a just conversation about winning or losing, about improving standards or setting records. This is a conversation about purpose.

Each week we will be bringing you stories of elite athletes and their unique journey to the top. You’ll hear from athletes about when they fell in love with their sport, who mentored them along the way, and what brings them meaning and fulfillment outside of competition. They are powerhouses not only in their arenas, but in their teams and communities because they are tapping into what gives them purpose beyond performance. And they are sharing it with you - and us - every Wednesday on the Hope Sports show with our host, Olympic gold medalist diver Laura Wilkinson.

 

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