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About This Episode

Her father was a professional baseball player and her mother a ski instructor; Katie grew up with sports all around her. Her strongest memories as a kid weren’t of learning how to swing a bat or carve a perfect trail down the slope, but of how her attitude and effort mattered far more than her ability ever would. She remembers sports being about integrity, work ethic, and teamwork. After she graduated from high school she became friends with a bobsledder that she had approached in the weight room who invited her to give skeleton a try. Just four weeks later Katie found herself at the top of the track at the Junior National competition. In her eighth week ever sliding she was ranked sixth in the nation and on her way to the Junior World Championships. It was a whirlwind, but Katie is a self-proclaimed “go big” kind of person and would have had it no other way. She walked away from her conservationist aspirations in order to chase her Olympic dreams.

Much like the luge or bobsled, skeleton racers slide down an ice track, but do so face first on their stomachs, hitting average speeds of 70-80 mph. For some this might sound terrifying, but Katie describes it as similar to the feeling of flying in a dream. Rather than the fear of injury or error, it’s weightlessness and freedom that stick with her the most. Her natural level of comfort with the sport, coupled with her impressive physical ability, easily landed her a spot on the team for the 2006 Winter Olympics in Torino. She remembers those games as “magical”; she took sixth place, was surrounded by family and friends, and even had the opportunity to travel around Europe afterwards.

Katie was a rising star in the international arena and at the cusp of an incredible career, snagging medals at the next two World Championships and boasting a 75% podium rate in the international circuit. However, in 2008 her father was diagnosed with cancer and her focused shifted from times and training to the health of her father, her family, and her self. She was abroad racing when she received the news that he was ill and her requests to return home to be with her family were denied. Katie found herself torn between her desire to represent her nation and the urge to abandon it all to be with her family. Pressure mounted from the Olympic Federation for her to compete; her record was just too good and with each win came more and more funding for the next Winter Olympic Games. She stayed in close contact with her family during this time, but her performance began to suffer. “I just didn’t want to be there,” says Katie. Her coaches and the Olympic Federation encouraged her to just make it through the end of the season which culminated with the World Cup in Utah. She agreed to stay, but the worries about her father’s condition only further clouded her emotional landscape, leaving little room for thinking about skeleton. Unfortunately, the worst case scenario came true; her father passed away while she competed in her final race of the World Cup. She got the news of his death when she stepped of the track that afternoon.  

Katie flew home as quickly as possible feeling devastated by his death and infuriated at the position she was put in by the sport. Her time at home was short lived, however, as she was expected to return to her team just four days later for the World Championships. She hardly even wanted to race, much less face the media storm that was brewing. “I felt like the story was getting exploited for sponsors and for the media,” says Katie, “In that moment I felt like I had to swallow all of who I was in order to say the right things that they wanted me to say.” There wasn’t space to grieve his loss, there was only the track, her performance, the funding, and the medal count. In order to just survive it all, she stuffed down all of her feelings about her father, became numb to the pain, and buried herself in the sport. The “win at all cost” culture of elite sports had demanded of her something more precious than time or effort; it had stolen final moments with her family that could never be replaced. In retrospect, Katie felt incredibly underserved during that season. She recalls no offers for grief counseling or encouragement for a sabbatical, and felt that in order to hold on to her dreams of competing, she had to consent to the negative culture around her. “I bought into the lie that my performance mattered more than anything else,” she says.

Following the World Championships she carried on racing through two broken knee caps, several surgeries, and without ever giving herself the space that she needed. Despite her traditionally competitive times, she only finished 11th at the following 2010 Olympics in Vancouver, something she still feels was a strong indicator of how her emotional health was affecting her athletic performance. In 2013 she suffered a severe concussion that required 18 months of recovery. She was sent to a military facility for traumatic brain injuries and claims that her time there really put things in perspective for her. “Recovering with them really revived my courage,” says Katie. She went into the 2014 Olympics with fresh energy, but narrowly missed the podium by only .04 seconds. The saga of that medal standing would drag on, though, as evidence of a state-wide doping scheme by the Russian Federation came to light. Katie was beat out by a Russian woman who was known to have participated, so for a brief time she was awarded the bronze medal. Unfortunately, months later an international court rendered the medal returned, and Katie walked away unfairly empty handed. It wasn’t the loss of the medal that really bothered her, but the greater glaring issue of individual athlete rights. She lamented with athletes being put it situations to do things that they would prefer not to, but feeling like they didn’t have a choice; it was a situation that hit close to home. Katie has continued to be an advocate for anti-doping regulation that will protect athletes in the future. She testified in front of the U.S. Helsinki Commission on the subject of doping and in support of the Rodchenkov Act that would further tighten down on how cases such as this are handled.

Not long after, Katie experienced another emotional blow when she discovered her best friend, Steve Holcomb, dead in his room at the Olympic Training Center. Steve was an Olympic bobsledder and had been a friend, confidant, and rock for her; the events surrounding his death were traumatic. The experience, however, jolted her from the shell that she had created around herself. For the first time since her father’s death, she gave herself permission to grieve, she reached out to friends, she rediscovered her faith. She began asking herself what she needed and wanted, and began standing up for herself again. “The only one who knows if you’re OK is you,” says Katie. It was an uphill climb to the 2018 Olympic Games in PyeongChang as she battled PTSD, panic attacks, and night terrors. The Games were steeped in emotion; the sadness over missing Steve, a surprise reunion with her estranged mother, and a richness in exercising her own agency again. She credits good friends and her faith for carrying her through those two years, but was again struck by the ways she was persuaded to put her emotional health second to her performance.

All of her frustrations in regards to the treatment of athletes were only further catalyzed when over 250 women came forward with claims against USA Gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar. “Athletes have no one to mediate for them,” says Katie. When an athlete feels threatened, exploited, or unheard, the only place to go is often to those who are either committing the abuse or directly benefiting from it. Athletes are forced to swallow their concerns and intimidated into competing as a duty to their country. Their dreams are held ransom in exchange for their silence and their medals. The injustice of these situations moved Katie to support the development of the Athlete Advisory Counsel that would be recognized by the Olympic Federation. This would provide a space for athletes to be heard, advocated for, and represented by other athletes when they have a concern with the way they are being treated. “Athletes have no one to ensure that this culture is changing,” says Katie. The first meeting of this board was in February of 2019 and she hopes to see it develop into a fully functioning element of the Olympic culture.

Katie continues to train for skeleton and looks forward to the 2020 Olympics, but says, “if I go to another Olympics it will be for myself and for completely different reasons.” She remembers one of the final pieces of advice from Steve before he passed away, “Remember who you are. Be the Kate your dad said you are.” She is on a journey of setting boundaries, redefining her identity, and exercising her voice. “I am remembering what it’s like to do something for myself,” she says. In addition to the skeleton track, Katie can be found on another track - a velodome. In 2018 she picked up team track cycling and won gold at the USA Cycling Elite Track National Championships and hopes to make back to back summer and winter Olympic appearances. But no matter where or how she races, she is confident that she is doing it for herself and for the right reasons and will continue to fight for the rights of other athletes to do the same. Be sure to follow her on Instagram and Twitter and cheer her on as she trains for the next two Olympics.  

 

[/et_pb_text][et_pb_toggle title="Read Episode Transcript" admin_label="Transcript" _builder_version="3.22.7" saved_tabs="all"]

Laura:

[00:00:06] Welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast where we believe the best way for you to unlock your full potential is by living into your purpose. We believe discovering your purpose is the only way for you to live a meaningful life. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. Each week I have the privilege of connecting with a different elite athlete to discuss how they win big in and out of their sport. We want you to compete better and live into your purpose as well. So stick around to hear about an amazing opportunity that we have for you. But first, let's talk about today's episode. We are so honored that Katie Uhlaender on our show today. I personally remember her for that flaming red hair she squirted at the last Winter Olympic Games. My daughter and I both agreed that she must be totally awesome because of that hair. And we were right. Katie is not only an incredibly decorated skeleton athlete but she's also doing important work advocating for athletes rights and cheerleading others to find confidence in their own identity. Her story is filled with some seriously painful seasons but her vulnerability with us on today's show it's truly impactful. So thanks for joining us and let's dive on in. Katie Uhlaender thank you so much for coming on the Hope Sports Podcast. We're excited to have you on.

 

Katie:

[00:01:18] Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I feel honored. Really appreciate it.

 

Laura:

[00:01:21] So for our audience who may not be familiar with your background. Tell us a little bit about how you got into sports and how that led you into the skeleton.

 

Katie:

[00:01:28] My father was a major league baseball player named Ted Uhlaender. My mother was also very active. That's how they met actually. My mother taught my father how to ski.

 

Laura:

[00:01:38] Wow!

 

Katie:

[00:01:39] So yeah. I'm like the perfect blend of the throwback traditional cowboy and then hippie ski bug from Colorado. But I got a good mixture like I grew up in Texas and my dad was very supportive of me as an athlete. I think he helped create my identity as a person how I approach life and sport. He was very clear on his expectations of me and was very adamant that I hold integrity above all else. Of course, I want to go out to do my best and win and try to win. But he was more concerned about my effort and what I learned throughout that process of putting my best foot forward than he was about my results. And I think I feel so grateful and blessed to that especially now at 34. Because it gave me a really solid foundation and I think especially now it's coming in and big-time youth. It's given me a whole new perspective. It's something I didn't really realize that’s the kick.

 

Laura:

[00:02:43] Right. What wisdom. That's really cool. So how did you get into the whole skeleton field?

 

Katie:

[00:02:50] Oh sorry I forgot that part.

 

Laura:

[00:02:53] No problem.

 

Katie:

[00:02:55] I was graduating high school and I walked up to this girl. She had shaved head, tattoo, piercings like I just to everyone else she looks scary but I just saw an athlete. And I was like oh you're squatting a lot of weight which would probably mean you're a fast sprinter. So I walked upturn as hey you sprint? And she's like yeah. And I, you wanna race? And she goes who the blank are you? I was like oh sorry yeah I’m Katie. I was kidding as a be was just like I would love. You know trying to be an athlete although not there yet. But I haven't gotten the sprint in a while and I just I thought would be fun. And she was like you're a nut. So we automatically became friends. And she had to be a bobsledder and she talked to me into trying skeleton. Four weeks later I won junior nationals went to junior world championships. My 8 week ever sliding I won Senior Nationals and ended up ranked 6th in the nation within 8 weeks of starting the sport.

 

Laura:

[00:03:51] What?!

 

Katie:

[00:03:51] Yeah. So the federation was like I was 18 or 19 at the time. And they're like hey if you want to do this sport well we'll give you free housing, free food, and a scholarship for school. All you have to do is work out and go sledding. And I was like I thought about it. I was hmm do I wanna go get my Ph.D. and be the next Dian Fossey? And for all of the millennials out there google her and watch Gorillas In The Mist? She's awesome. Or do I wanna go to the Olympics? And I chose to pursue the Olympics thinking I could go back to college. Well, 4 Olympics later I am now studying for my essay piece.

 

Laura:

[00:04:29] Nice. Hey! Better late than never. That's cool. Oh my goodness. OK, so that's awesome. That's just crazy awesome. I love your story. So most of us have never tried skeleton. So tell us what exactly it's like to go face first down the track of ice at 90 miles an hour?

 

Katie:

[00:04:47] You know I don't know the speed. I think the record for women is like 92. I think the average is like 70-80. But we have some tracks that you go hecka fast. So have you ever had those dreams where you're flying?

 

Laura:

[00:05:01] Yeah?

 

Katie:

[00:05:02] And you feel free and your stomach kind of goes into your throat and it's just awesome fun.

 

Laura:

[00:05:11] Yeah.

 

Katie:

[00:05:12] Goldens like that but a little bit more restricted. So you start going down and you get a little scared at first because you don't have brakes. And you can't stop but then you realize that you get a little scared at first. But if you're able to embrace it you find yourself chasing the speed and going with gravity dancing down the track and craving more of it. And it's something I definitely love very much.

 

Laura:

[00:05:38] Oh wow. So cool. So like from four weeks in your nationally ranked. Was it getting you to the Olympics like kind of your first goal? Like was that immediately something you saw you could do?

 

Katie:

[00:05:55] of course. I mean that was basically I didn't think of anything small. It was either go and get Ph.D., be the next Dian Fossey and study gorillas in the jungle or go to the Olympics. Like that's how I looked at it. There was no in between. And I was excited to discover how to do those things and figure out how to become my best self. So yeah I mean I wouldn't like start something and be like Well I don't know what I want to do you just care cause it's cool. No. I'm definitely gonna attack awkward. Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:06:29] I love it. All or nothing. So what was it like then making that first Olympic team in 2006?

 

Katie:

Oh my gosh. I remember seeing Pavarotti sing. And Ferrari's doing doughnuts to create the Olympic rings. You know crying and holding hands with someone I didn't know that was experiencing the same thing. Jeremy Bloom causing the Olympians to get roped in because he kept climbing outside a little circle they put us in. I mean it was such a great experience. My father was there my family my boyfriend and then as soon as we traveled to Europe because you could go anywhere in 4 hours in Paris-Milan. Where else do we go? Carina Venice it was like the most amazing experience ever. I think it's one of those moments in life that you're just like did that really happen? Because it is really cool.

 

Laura:

[00:07:26] So awesome. Now OK. You mentioned your dad Ted was a major league baseball player. And that he was very supportive and it just sounds like he gave you so much wisdom which is beautiful. But was it ever an issue of pressure like when media started to get involved? Because I'm sure it was always like Katie daughter of you know Dadada. Like was that ever difficult to handle?

 

Katie:

[00:07:49] It wasn't until he passed away. I think that moment is when the Olympic environment swallowed me whole. It's really difficult. I had asked to go home to see him when he was diagnosed with cancer. Well, we're on tour and the federation said no. I was not allowed to leave because they needed me to perform so they could get funding for the Olympic year the following year. The U.S. is the only funds' federations that have medal shot and I was a huge portion of their performance plan. So I had to stay and compete. And he passed away while I was competing. It devastated me. I have no words. I mean I could go into the details that season but it was psychologically damaging and man it just hurt a lot. And when he passed away they finally let me fly home for the funeral. And I had to return four days later and compete in the world championships. And I just I remember I didn't want to go because the media and the federation insisted. So I did and the first question out of the gate was how does it feel to lose your father. What do you think you would think? How do you think you would feel about your performance. And I just remember at that moment I felt like I had to swallow all of who I was to say the right things that they wanted me to say. You know the whole reason they put me in front of the media was that they were going to exploit this story to get publicity and sponsors. And it's big for NBC, right?

 

[00:09:21] It was a year out from the Olympics and I was ranked 3rd in the world. Despite all the trouble they had competing on while he was sick. And I didn't get to say the things I want to do. I didn't get the process degrees. It was pretty much from that moment on I had cameras in my face talking to me about my father who said what it meant. They even asked to come. We had a memorial service after the funeral like in November the following year. And spread more of his ashes. And NBC tried to insist that I have cameras there to film it. And I just like never got to deal with my grief for what happened because it would have been one thing if I had chosen to stay and compete and not been forced to stay. Or I guess worst in any word coerce. You know I asked three times to go home and the first time I thought they couldn't do it because they needed me. The second time he just said we can't. And then I think the third time I realized that you know they said they couldn't because winning so coming in 4th every week. I don't think it was like consciously on purpose but subconsciously. I think I was doing it because I was bitter I was mad. I did not want to be there. And then they said you know your performance must be important to you. You know your dad would want you to keep competing and you can’t make it if you are weak. So I said and then he died. And I remember like it was the last World Cup so I thought I'd meet it. I talked to him that morning and I remember him just telling me about the cattle we'd brought together and the ranch. But he would see me next week and how much he loved me like he said he loved me I think. A usual amount of time. And I won my first medal of the season because I was relieved that I had made it. I thought I was going to see him again. And when I finished the race they told me he had passed away.

 

Laura:

[00:11:26] Oh man.

 

Katie:

[00:11:27] So. sorry.

 

Laura:

[00:11:29] No. I can't even imagine.

 

Katie:

[00:11:32] That kind of puts it into context like. But the coaching staff in the federation they didn't really ask if I was OK. They didn't know there was no I could use a grief counselor or something. And I think it was really apparent that you know throughout the season that I wasn't okay because I had been winning everything up until that point. And then I just thinking back I was just like man you know making me talk to the media go to NBC do all the stuff that they didn't offer. They didn't ask how I felt and my true feelings were that I was kind of mad at the sport. I blamed it for taking because I didn't value winning or performing over my family over my well-being. And I got to the point where I think that is what's expected of you to perform. To perform at all costs. Win at all costs. And that was not who I was that was not my identity. That's not what brought me to the sport. So there was a good period of time where cancer question that some I did remember it. My identity and who I was was challenged significantly. And it was mostly influenced by the generalized other. Or in other words the expectations of what the federation wanted me to tell the public of what was what people wanted to hear versus how I felt and what was really going on. I kind of lost the humanity that I think I need personally need to be able to perform well.

 

Laura:

[00:13:00] Oh yeah. I can't. I mean you said you had to compete like four days after the funeral? Like at what point did you grieve?

 

Katie:

[00:13:10] I am not sure that I ever was given that opportunity really. And I remember I spoke out at the Olympics about how upset I was. They'd find me, took away my stipend, my housing and told me I had no OPEC privileges or trading privileges. Until after I made the team again the following year. I no longer had like my sounding board I was pretty lost. And I didn't know how to let go of the sport and start something new. Because I've been in this weird place that was like Oh I love skills and I want to do skeleton but I love my father. And I want to be with my father and my father was gone. And then I was like I was left with this lingering feeling while I was supposed to win an Olympic medal and I didn’t. And if I want to do that I have to be OK with doing these things they're putting in front of me. And it was like a state of cognitive dissonance that I didn't become aware of. I think honestly until after Pyeongchang 2018 Olympics. So. Yeah. Lives live am I right?

 

Laura:

[00:14:16] Wow. Like you know I'm just trying to process what all you went through. I just can't even fathom that. I mean he's not even long after you lost your dad you broke your kneecap twice and you had 4 surgeries on it. And you still came back and competed the next year at the 2010 Olympic Games. I mean at some point did you just disconnect or is that when you really dove into it? How did you get yourself together to do that?

 

Katie:

[00:14:46] I never did. I don't think I understand. I still am working on it. Like I was winning 50% of the time statistically. 75% of the time when I went to a race. 75% physically I was going to I was gonna win a medal. There was only a 25% chance that I'd walk away from a race without a medal. So for me to go to the Olympics like it wasn't even a question in my mind. Of course I was going to make it but when I get the medal. And I ended up like 7th I don’t know 11th I think.

 

Laura:

[00:15:22] So you just go and went through the motions. Is that kind of?

 

Katie:

[00:15:25] Yeah. That sort of thing. Like I was top 3 in the world. I had 22 World Cup medals, 11 gold, 6 World Championship. That it's like the most medals of anyone in the history of the sport up to that point. And I think that it was a huge indicator that something went wrong. I don't think I snapped out of it truly until after this past Olympics because something similar happened with my best friend passing away. So now I'm left at this point where I'm like OK well now I'm regaining my own agency. Like I'm remembering what it's like to do things for myself for me. Like who I am what I'm about and I can start saying no. I can start creating boundaries. And if I do go to another Olympics it'll be more for myself and for completely different reasons. Like I feel invigorated again. But yeah. I mean like I think that shattering my kneecap 6 weeks after my father passed. It was a symptom. Another symptom of what I was going through mentally. I crashed a snowmobile I think I was just kind of lost and numb and died. And I didn't have anybody. I was alone. So I don't really know how to describe it. That was like.

 

Laura:

[00:16:42] No. I think that was a very good description. Yeah, I think it just goes to show us that like you can't just block things out then perform like you know things in your life have to be together and it's important you know who's in your life and what else is going on behind the scenes. Like sometimes we just forget that we think oh I can block it out and I can just do this thing. But it's no. It's your whole person right? I mean that's kind of what you keep saying. It's like everything has to kind of be together to make it all work.

 

Katie:

[00:17:07] For me. I mean there are some people and that's what I think that's the difference. Like some athletes begin as children, right? And they become taught that performing is part of who they are like winning it defines them. That was never me. What I loved was discovering more of myself more of the world. And like I felt like God was taking me on a journey that I was meant to do you know. And that integrity like those things is all more important. And I somehow I think I got trick. I don't know. I got sucked into the other aspect of it. It swallowed my identity and I became an Olympic product. A commodity. And I think for me it's telling like for me personally. Because if I'm not true to myself and what I believe and what my essence is. Then I think it results in injury. Results in poor performance. Results in just a state of cognitive dissonance numbness. And I think it was like over this past season a good friend of mine was like I feel so bad for him. He was just there for me when I was like sorting through all this mentally poor Giddeon. I don't know if you know Giddeon Massie a two time Olympian for cycling. And I texted him all season long. I found my relationship with God again. But I didn't even really explain to him everything I was going through because it's pretty emotional and pretty dramatic. And I even talking to you about it I feel like this is a comfortable setting because people are gonna know. They're listening to like hear something. Significant something. Deep something. That’s to take you to the core.

 

[00:18:51] But in real life it's really difficult to find people that are willing to listen or engage because it shows vulnerability. Like for you to show your emotions they’ll talk about the way you're processing life. I don't think wade you're focused are the things you're facing. I think it's really rare to find the right people to do that with. And it's important for me personally to have a relationship with God. And I think that whole process I'm so thankful to have had a friend like that. But you know I'm coming back to realizing and this is really important guys. This is an important part of the lesson that the only one who knows if you're OK is you. And it truly comes down to being honest with yourself about what you're OK doing and what you're not. And the thing I forgot was in that moment when I said I didn't want to speak to the media I should have just stuck to that and said no. When I said I wanted to go home I should have stuck to that and pushed and not moved on my ground on that. I started to buy into thinking that it was my duty to go to compete for to make sure that the team could get money. I thought it was my duty to win a medal for my country and sort of go home to see my family and for some people that might be the right choice.

 

[00:20:11] I'm not saying that there is a right or wrong. But if you do something that you truly don't feel in your heart is the way for you then you're putting yourself in a state of conflict. And if you're in a state of conflict it's really difficult to hear the Holy Spirit. It's really difficult to hear God guide you the way he wants you to go. And I think that was the biggest epiphany I had. Was like whoa if I'm more honest with myself if I'm more true to myself about what I want to do my mistakes and make my commitment to my choices then I'm much more at peace than I can see clearly in my path forward.

 

Laura:

[00:20:50] At Hope Sports we know that you want to be the best athlete that you can be. And in order to do that, you train hard and dedicate yourself to performing at your peak. But sometimes it can feel monotonous. Every day has a similar routine and when you win well no victory feels as good as a loss feels bad. It doesn't have to be this way. We believe athletes can compete at their full potential and reach their dreams while feeling lasting satisfaction from their accomplishments. We understand what it's like when you've dedicated your life to something. But you feel like you're never living up to people's expectations and you don't feel satisfied with your achievements. Hundreds of athletes have told us that they've discovered how to compete at their best while finding lasting fulfillment in their achievements during our interactive international service trips. Our next trip is coming up June 7th-10th in Rosarito Mexico and we want you to be there. It's so easy to get involved. Just go to HopeSports.org sign up for the June 7th-10th home build and build hope for a family and win like never before. So sign up today. It could be the key you need to find success in your career.

 

[00:21:57] Well I'm guessing so the next four years you made your third Olympic team in 2014 in Sochi. And it appears that you were kind of doing a little bit better emotionally, mentally because you did amazing there. And you just missed the podium by a fraction of a second for 100th of a second. I love how you put that in perspective and you say it's faster than you can even blink. Walk us through that experience.

 

Katie:

[00:22:20] Sochi. [00:22:21] Oh my gosh. Well obviously that into athlete right? Because that's where that goes. I got a concussion and I spent some time with some combat veterans at a TBI clinic which is a traumatic brain injury clinic in Dallas. And I was like getting down on myself like here I am injured again this always happens like blah blah blah. And those guys told me their stories. Marcus Luttrell was there about how they'd been blown up. Crawled on their hands on their elbows for 7 miles to get to safety. And some of them were blown up and continued fighting. And I was over there with a head injury like still going to the Olympics acting like my life was over. And I was like OK So that just put everything in perspective. I'm still going to the Olympics and I'm capable of putting my best on the line. So my mentality shifted because I had men that served their country and put their lives on the line. To show me that I was serving my country but I wasn't putting my life on the line. And if they could do that I could definitely go with a new sense of courage and fortitude and just bring everything I had and let that be that. And that was the lesson my father had originally taught me. It kind of just revives that for a moment. Unfortunately, there was a Sochi doping scandal which was if you all could go watch it that will explain it in depth.

 

Laura:

[00:23:46] That’s a powerful documentary. Yeah.

 

Katie:

[00:23:45] But the Red Corn Russian KGB and the sports minister of Russia conspired to cheat. So they helped the athletes take this Austrian and different performance-enhancing drugs at the Olympics. And then they switched out the doping samples with clean ones and destroyed the dirty samples so they could ensure they won medals. Now the girl who beat me was named in the investigative report as one of the athletes who is doping.

 

Laura:

[00:24:17] You didn't know that at the time though did you?

 

Katie:

[00:24:20] No I had the time on my leg. I mean I was pretty bummed that I didn’t get a medal but like it’ll be best Olympic like it was super fun like could have put on a great show. But in 2015 they disclosed all the stuff and Wrench a buddy of mine with friends Bryan Fogel the director of the movie. Texted and said that 100% Elena Nikitina on the girl who beat me was doping. And it broke my heart and I wasn't. My heart wasn't so much broken to the medal. It was broken because that Olympics was fake. I was just like oh my gosh everyone that participated in the race participated in something that wasn't real. They went to such long extended lengths to make sure they won. And it breaks my heart. And then you know like those pretty crazy like. It was exposed the IOC decide to strip the medal in November 2017 which made me a bronze medalist. I was like wow this is awesome you know. But the day I arrived in Pyeongchang they gave the Medal back. So I arrived at my fourth Olympic Games thinking I was a bronze medalist. And then when I woke up to go through processing I woke up to hate mail. And I mean some of whom are kind of funny but not nice. It was like you're not an athlete.

 

Laura:

[00:25:33] Wait wait wait. Just back up a minute. How did they take it back? Like what exactly happened?

 

Katie:

[00:25:41] That was through the court of arbitration of sport. So the athletes appealed to the higher court. And so the court of arbitrational sport ruled there wasn't enough individual evidence to show the athletes knew they were cheating. Or knew about the conspiracy. So I mean I'll just skip it. Skip the god Pyeongchang part. But I read a letter after the 2018 Games after experiencing that and I said I appreciate that you are attempting to protect the individual athlete right. However, I think you've done the opposite. You have not set any parameters in which the state can treat the athlete. And by giving them back the medals you're rewarding an abuse of power. It is not the reason that there is a conspiracy to cheat. It's not disputed that they distributed drugs. And it's not just that they destroyed the samples and replaced them with those athletes. That evidence is 100% factual by you rewarding them the medal. You have now allowed Russia to force their athletes to participate in a conspiracy to cheat against the Olympic movement. Olympic spirit and their health.

 

[00:26:48] What happens in 10 years when they can't have children. Some of them are having severe health issues or some of them pass away. Their friends their family and potentially themselves will come to you asking why you didn't do anything. Who is protecting the athlete from how the state can treat them? And that kind of set me on a pathway this fall where I began investigating the Olympic movement and the systems and processes in place. All the way from the top to the from the IOC down to the USOC. And I'm on a mission to create an independent athlete commission or association like a player's association for athletes in the US. I'm hoping it can be recognized by the 96 Olympic Committee. Acknowledging that there is a cultural issue that there is a problem. That the athletes have nowhere to go outside of their federations or any and National Committee is open to NSC. that can negotiate. Mediate on their behalf or hope their well-being first. We really truly need to define athlete right? And ensure that the culture is changed from a win at all costs. Performance at all costs to you. Your well-being is as important as your performance.

 

Laura:

[00:28:03] That would be huge. That's awesome. I'm glad you've made that part of your mission. That's really really cool. I mean I don't like that you've had to go through these things to learn that and become passionate about it. But I mean just think of all the people that you're going to help in the future because of that. That’s really cool.

 

Katie:

[00:28:19] I think the only reason people are listening is due to what happened to the gymnast. And so I think that I'm hoping you know I think one of the girls Jamie I don't remember how to say Well I think the thoughts of a D. She was one of the first ones to speak out against Larry Nasser. And the sexual abuse he did. And because of her slowly the rest of the girl started to stand up and speak out. It was like 1to 10 to 15 now 300 over 300. And because of them, Congress is listening USSC is listening. And I can't imagine what it was like to go through what they went through. But I think the solution like this like I spoke to her last night actually and she was like oh my gosh I had no idea. I was like you know our experience isn't unique. But the susceptibility to neglect. To neglecting our needs. And the culture pushing that on us to believe that that's what it takes to become an Olympian. That’s what it takes to perform is real. And I think that this is a great solution that can bring us all together. And kind of bring some empowerment to some of those victims or people that have suffered you know. It makes me feel better to come up with a solution to the problem. And I see that I could have easily been one of those administrators that believe in that process too. Like I can't imagine being put in a position where it's like my paycheck or the depends on this athlete performance. I actually want to recheck that statement because I would want to make sure that athletes were OK. But I think that you know the environment's gone. The culture has gone a little too far.

 

Laura:

[00:30:01] Mm-hmm. For sure. Well, now that lead up to we're talking about to Pyeongchang. Your fourth Olympic Games can't leave you in for that's so cool. I mean it was difficult on so many levels. Obviously you just talked about the whole finding out about the medals from Sochi. You mentioned earlier your best friend Steve Holcomb his Olympic champion he passed away. You've had you had five surgeries. You struggled with an autoimmune disease. I mean you have quite the story to athletic career you know. How did you handle emotionally, physically, and mentally going into that games?

 

Katie:

[00:30:40] Well like I said I had really great support. Giddeon was someone I spoke to all the time and it was really great for him. I had this other friend Leah Oriel she is my sister in Christ. And then she came on tour with me like a month. I had another friend that I met out there. His name is Manny he used to be a minister. So I mean like it was really important to me for me to have God in my life. I think that really got me through a lot. And then Elana Meyers was on tour with me and she was a huge support. But honestly like I didn't share with either anyone really what I was truly going through. I was diagnosed with PTSD. The only people that I told were the Federation and the coaches. So I don't know if I handled it really well I didn't really know how I ended up just kind of going numb and I was still pushing transport through things. There's no real black or white answer there. You know I was feeling I would have triggers so I would have anxiety attacks panic attacks and then you know I was trying to sort through a lot. So I just tried to put my best foot forward but I went numb.

 

[00:31:55] To be honest I was exhausted by the time I got to the Olympics. And I can't say that I was really excited to be there but I did my best. And I was very aware that I was a role model for a lot of people so I made sure to be clear about that good thing. Like I was really happy about the fact that I got to start a relationship with my mom again. That was really happy to have really had a come to Jesus moment on that year. I was really grateful for my friends and family but that doesn't change the fact that I was dealing with a lot. And I was emotionally exhausted. And like there are plenty of moments I didn't feel like I handled myself well at all. I spent way too many long texts to Giddeon.

 

Laura:

[00:32:44] Giddeon if you're listening. Thank you.

 

Katie:

[00:32:47] Yes. But I mean that's what friends are for right? And if they can really understand who you are and what you're going through like and not judge you for it. That's pretty awesome. I mean it's tough right? I don't know how I dealt or process it. I think I still am. Like I finally got thanks to talk space and Michael Phelps. I got some real help. The USOC doesn't have any true mental health resources. So when I told them I was having panic attack anxiety attack. They didn't really know what to do and then when I ask for help they just kind of brushed me off. So. I'm really grateful that you know I have the right people in place to help now. And but it's still a process. Like I'm just starting to get back on ice and I get triggers every once in a while or a nightmare and I can't sleep.But I think it's definitely getting a lot better. It's much less intense than it was. I should have clarified I got PTSD. Because in May 2017 I found my best friend Steve Holcomb passed away in the Olympic Training Center from an overdose. He accidentally took too many sleeping pills and drank and it ended up being lethal.

 

[00:34:08] So that was I think the whole situation though I think that's what woke me up finally. Because it paralleled with my dad and I remember Holcomb said to me right before he passed away. Remember who you are. You said be the Kate your dad said you were which was fierce. And you would go to the line dancing your own music and not really care about winning and thought and relax. Like the performance was never my focus and you should stop looking for people to assure you that you know. Stop looking for your dad to be or for people to be who your dad was you. No one hope you passed away. I was like. It kind of snap me out of it I think. And like I said I'm regaining my own agency and you know going through these therapies and stuff. That's when I started I realized like Wow that's where all my trauma came from. Was when I swallowed who I was to perform I lost my identity. So I think currently I am rediscovering that. I'm on a mission of personal discovery.

 

[00:35:16] And I'm grateful to have rediscovered God along the way. Which I think is huge because it was always a huge part of my life in the past. And I'm rambling now but I think that was one of the things that I realized was that when my father died I stopped praying as much. I stopped doing a lot of reflection and intersection and the things that took care of me. Like you have to make time and create space for yourself and create space for God. And I think that was one of the things I didn't do when I became overwhelmed with sadness or you know. Like I said if you're in a state of cognitive dissonance a state of conflict really hard to hear the Holy Spirit. Hard to hear yourself. So you know facing those things to clear that out and create faith that's going to be a constant job I think.

 

Laura:

[00:36:09] I'm glad to hear you're on the right track and you're figuring out how to sort through it. And like you said talking to God and having those important relationships. And having therapy and talking. Like working through those things that's so huge. And you said you're back on ice so are you still competing and looking forward to Beijing?

 

Katie:

[00:36:30] Oh my gosh Beijing so far away. Just pick your day and time.

 

Laura:

[00:36:34] Well, you also I picked up another sport in this process too, didn't you?

 

Katie:

[00:36:39] I did. I am currently a national champion in 2 sports back to back. And I'm gonna try and do it again. When I try to win skeleton Nationals and then cycling Nationals again it’s like you've done?

 

Laura:

[00:36:48] That’s amazing.

 

Katie:

[00:36:51] I don't know. I'm just gonna take a day of time like I got injured and I'm just now getting back on ice like tomorrow. So I have about 6 weeks to prepare for national and everywhere else has been sliding since October. But I'm just like. I'm just starting to think that my career numbers are coming up on most people stages. So I should be at all. They’re like calling me grandma skeleton at this point. I'm like I am 34 and offended.

 

Laura:

[00:37:22] Grandma Skeleton I like it.

 

Katie:

[00:37:24] Ouch. But I'll take it. So then I'll do nationals. And then if I win I get to buy on to the world team next season. And then I'm gonna head back to L.A. immediately and start training for Team front. Which is like you go in this little circle and a velodrome it's like a fishbowl. The sport getting in bed and my teammate is Mandy Marquardt I think. I like calling her Marquardt because it is French. But so we won nationals and if we win again in my time is within the league standard then I'll get a Pan Am games. And hopefully help us attempt to make the summer games Tokyo 2020. But I'm like a second offer I need to be which is quite a bit of time. And I haven't had a lot of experience on a bike but I'm really enjoying it and the community is fantastic. I love being a part of a team. I love that I can do it and stay in one place like skeleton I’ve travel non-stop. So I think I'm ready to like transition into not traveling as much. And I was in L.A. up until like last week. I have to say 70 degrees in January was pretty awesome.

 

Laura:

[00:38:38] A far cry from the skeleton you know area I'm sure.

 

Katie:

[00:38:43] Yeah. I mean like Christmas was super rad. I wanted to get a palm dream and put like a Charlie Brown decoration on it. And then just wear an ugly sweater because the flake warm enough where you don't need a coat. But cool enough to wear like a sweater is appropriate. I was like This is great. This is business Christmas.

 

Laura:

[00:38:53] That would be perfect. Oh That’s awesome. Well cool. Well, where can we follow you because you're absolutely incredible you're awesome. So where can we follow you online to continue to be inspired and encouraged by you and cheer you on toward Tokyo and Beijing perhaps?

 

Katie:

[00:39:16] Instagram @kateu11 and all the other ones there @KatieU11 Snapchat, Twitter, and Facebook. It's not hard to find me. So is there another platform missing?

 

Laura:

[00:39:30] No. That's perfect. We'll make sure to put those on there. Katie thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story and just encouraging and inspiring all of us.

 

Katie:

[00:39:42] I really appreciate the opportunity and thank you.

 

Laura:

[00:39:46] Wow. I love how vulnerable Katie is willing to be with her story. Knowing that her openness can encourage others to take an honest look at themselves. As well and perhaps even be bold enough to engage with where they're at. At one point she said the only one who knows if you're OK is you. And men that is so true. If you're feeling off or unheard or you resonate with Katie's sense of neglect then I encourage you to just like she did to go on a journey to discover who you are again. Reach out to a friend or a mentor and get connected to those who can remind you of your identity. Seriously Katie that was some amazing wisdom and we're so grateful. Be sure to follow her on all of her socials that are linked in the show notes so that you can cheer her on as she aims for her fifth Olympics and shoots for back to back Summer and Winter Games. Don't forget to subscribe and join us each week for more raw honest conversations with athletes about how their journeys have shaped them and how they are engaging in things that give them purpose. And if you're interested in getting outside of your normal day today and you want to pursue purpose then consider registering for an upcoming trip with hope sports. The link is in the show notes and a trip is coming up this June that you do not want to miss. Next step is swimmer Michael Andrews who is a young up and comer who has broken over 100 national age group records. He's blazing a trail to the 2020 Olympics and he'll share more about his story right here next week. On behalf of Hope Sports, I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please visit HopeSport.org

 

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About This Episode

As a sixth grader, Guy East would wake up every morning, put on a medal from one of his novice races, raise his arms high, and pretend that he won Olympic gold. Inspired by Lance Armstrong’s heroic return to cycling after cancer, Guy knew that someday he wanted to be that: a champion. He was bullied at school and remembers using his anger and frustration to fuel himself. Instead of running away, he channeled his pain into his training. He viewed cycling as a way to show his worth to his biggest critics. “I wanted to prove that I was better than all the names they called me at school,” recalls Guy.

The tactic worked. At age 16 he was invited to a training camp with the US National Cycling Team and soon after was hand picked as one of a dozen rising stars to be a part of Lance Armstrong’s development team. He began to realize that his dreams might actually become a reality. But the anger that once drove him began to wain and as he got further in his career the performance culture of the sport ate away at him. “I was only as good as my last performance,” says Guy. Coaches and teammates echoed the fears that were already inside of him -- that he wasn’t worthy of love if he didn’t win. He pushed himself harder to become faster and be ranked higher, but the constant scrutiny led to eating disorders and the brutal self talk robbed him of the joy of riding.“I was competing out of a desire to prove to people that I was worthy and capable, rather than because I loved the sport,” says Guy.

All of these feelings came to a head when he was 21 in Mexico City where he was competing. Instead of reserving energy like the rest of his teammates, he stepped outside of his Five Star hotel and was struck by the immense poverty that was directly across the street. Families were living in shacks, children didn’t have shoes or clothing, homes were crumbling. His instinct was to turn away and never think of it again, but that moment changed something for him and he genuinely wanted to help. “At that point I started to question what I was doing as an athlete,” he says. “I realized that I didn’t want to just be remembered for being fast, but for making a difference in the world.” Coming from such a cut-throat, “all in or all out” mentality of elite sports, Guy didn’t believe he could do both. After a year of inner turmoil and soul searching he decided to sell all of his possessions and equipment, and quit the sport all together. It wasn’t an easy decision, however. With so much of his identity and worth wrapped up in his athletic abilities, he deeply feared being rejected as he walked away. “I believed that people only liked me because I was a cyclist,” says Guy. And that rejection did come as teammates and critics reminded him that he was giving up his greatest talent, that all of his efforts over the years were for nothing, that he didn’t have a clue what he was going to do next.

Without a college degree, without a plan, and without any prospects on the horizon, Guy combined the only two things that he knew he loved: serving others and cycling. He bought a one way ticket to Puerto Rico and hung out with the homeless on the streets, served in soup kitchens, lent a hand at non-profits, and helped in churches. He brought his bike and journeyed for two years through Central America with no real agenda. “I never felt more connected to people, my faith, and my purpose,” says Guy. After two years he felt more free and content than he ever did racing a bicycle, but he also realized that he deeply enjoyed competing. He finally bought a return ticket to the States with the goal of returning to the professional circuit, but this time it would be with a much bigger perspective on life and what was important.

Guy went on to compete professionally for several more years, but was committed to sharing what he learned. All around him he saw athletes who were like him; they didn’t believe they had any purpose beyond their athletic ability and saw themselves only in medal counts, scores, and standings. Passionate about helping transform the mindsets of his elite athlete friends, Guy started gathering groups to travel to Mexico and work with Homes of Hope, an organization that builds homes for families with volunteer teams over a weekend. “I kept seeing light bulbs go on for people,” says Guy. He recognized that there were plenty of people pushing physical development programs for athletes, but very few supporting their development in emotional, spiritual, or psychological ways. In 2015 Guy founded Hope Sports which regularly brings teams to build homes in Mexico and is committed to training coaches to challenge the negative framework of elite sports.

In Guy’s opinion, the performance culture is only going to get worse unless we actively work against it. It communicates that hard work and sacrifice can help an athlete earn value, acceptance, and love. Unfortunately, this line of thinking extrapolates itself into all relationships, from coaches and teammates to parents, friends, and spouses. And there is never an end to the winning. If a victory at the next championship will finally bring a sense of worthiness, what happens when that is won and there is a next one? “If our purpose is winning, then we’ll never be satisfied,” says Guy. Elite athletes need to find a way to be content and happy now, not after some medal, some ranking, or some championships. “We want to free people of that mentality so they can believe that they are great for who they are,” he says. We live in a high performance society and sports will always be about hard work, dedication, and sacrifice, but Guy says, “yes, you may have to earn your medal, but you’re never going to earn love.”

Guy retired in 2017 to focus more on the work of Hope Sports and is constantly seeking new ways to reach the next generation of athletes with this message. Through trips, seminars and training for coaches, and the Hope Sports podcast, he hopes to wield his platform for good and encourages other athletes to do so as well. Learn more about the work of Hope Sports by visiting their website and following Guy on Twitter and Instagram.

 

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About This Episode

Growing up, Ryan Hall trained for hours upon hours on his swing, his pitching, and his catching; he dreamed of becoming a professional baseball player. Unfortunately he could practice all he wanted, but it would never change his physical build enough to be a viable candidate for baseball. But, as he would soon learn, practice would indeed make him faster. His dad had always been a distance runner, but Ryan didn’t share the same passion for hitting the pavement. In fact, he didn’t enjoy it at all. But one day while sitting on the edge of a lake near his home in California, Ryan says, “I felt God tell me to run around it.” With no training or preparation, he and his dad ran the slow and painful fifteen miles around the lake. It was from that day forward that he says that he knew he would run in an Olympic Games.

He dedicated himself to training and was an all star high school athlete. Despite his reservations about attending a trendy, powerhouse running school, Ryan signed with Stanford University after he graduated. He had always been a decent student in high school, but was utterly unprepared for the rigors of college and wasn’t cut any slack for being an athlete as well. His undergraduate years were brutal. At one point his professors weren’t even confident that he would pass his classes, injuries plagued his racing, and his entire sense of identity was compromised because of it. “I looked in the mirror and didn’t like what I saw because I wasn’t performing well,” says Ryan. He wrestled with relentless negative self talk and depression that drove him home midway through his sophomore year. Knowing that he needed to confront his destructive performance mindset, Ryan began pursuing his faith in God to rebuild his identity. “I needed to see myself how God saw me,” he says. He returned to Stanford with a new confidence in his self worth; what started as an inward transformation began to work its way outward, resulting in faster and faster times.  

He signed with ASICS right out of college and continued his running career on a whole new level. He had always dreamed of running alongside the very fastest individuals in the world, and now he was training, traveling, and racing his dream alongside his wife, Sarah, who was also an elite runner. Ryan soon realized that his 5K times were simply not competitive, which led him to up his race length. This proved to be the perfect move for him. In 2007 Ryan made history at the Houston Half-Marathon as the first American to break the one hour mark for a half marathon with a time of 59:43. He describes that race as feeling enfortless, a “mountaintop experience.” Unfortunately there is no half marathon at the Olympics, so Ryan upped his distance once again to the marathon length. That same year he logged the fastest debut marathon ever by an American at the London Marathon, where he took seventh place. He followed that up with a first place finish at the US Olympic Trials and qualified to race at the 2008 Beijing games.

Of the Olympics, Ryan says it “completely lived up to its hype.” From the athlete village, to running with some of his heros, to the ceremonies - it was a dream come true. His dream also included him running the race of his life, which unfortunately isn’t what happened.  Three months prior to the Olympics fatigue caught up with him, his times lagged, and he couldn’t overcome feeling sluggish. He mixed up his training, nutrition, and sleep rhythms in hopes of breaking out of the slump, but, in his opinion, his fitness wasn’t as good as it could have been. Feeling the weight of the difficult journey to that starting line, he decided to hand over the outcome to God knowing that it didn’t change anything about who he was. “I told myself that I’m still of worth and value even if I don’t have my best performance on the day that I want it more than anything else,” says Ryan. During the first half of the race he fell behind the pack, carrying burden of the heat, humidity, and his own discouragement. He prayed as he ran and felt God prompt him to start encouraging others athletes along the way. So as he caught up with another competitor he would encourage them, pray for them, or run with them until they caught a fresh wind. “As I turned my thoughts out to other people, I wasn’t focused on my own suffering or pain,” says Ryan. This perspective shift worked; his splits improved and he picked his way up to a tenth place finish, something he is still very proud of.

A year after the Beijing Olympics, Ryan and his wife, Sarah, ran the Chicago Marathon to raise money for World Vision. Following the race, they had the opportunity to travel to Zambia to attend the ribbon cutting ceremony for the clean water well that was built from what they helped collect. At the event a community member shared with Ryan that the availability of clean water would add ten years to the life expectancy of the 90,000 people in their village. It was in that moment that he realized the impact that running could have on people who truly needed it. The following year Ryan and Sarah founded the Hall Steps Foundation, which raises money for a variety of projects around the world - from foster care development in Ethiopia, to microloans for widows across a variety of countries, to health clinics in Kenya. Runners can fundraise for a race and all of the proceeds go directly to the programs through this volunteer-run organization.

As their foundation grew, Ryan and Sarah continued to run professionally, but unfortunately, a domino effect of injuries afflicted Ryan. He qualified to run in the 2012 London Olympics, but had to step off mid-race because of a pulled hamstring. The injuries didn’t relent and after four years of nursing one after another Ryan decided to step away from the sport. Despite his love of running, his body made it clear that it was time to retire and honestly, he was ready for it. “It was kind of a relief,” says Ryan, “I had a powerful realization that my journey wasn’t all about me.” He looked forward to a new season of teaching, coaching, writing, and speaking, finding it incredibly fulfilling to pour into others and see them succeed, almost more than his own successes. He also took time to heal his body from almost fifteen years of elite running.

During this time the Hall family also grew in numbers. After spending time training in Ethiopia, Ryan and Sarah grew to love the people and culture, while simultaneously feeling convicted by the poverty and growing orphan crisis. They were originally interested in adopting an infant from Ethiopia, but while serving at an orphanage there, were confronted with the need for adoptive families for older children and sibling groups. When they returned to the US they switched adoption agencies and were matched with a group of four biological sisters who needed a home soon to avoid being seperated. Overnight they went from a family of two to a family of six. “It was almost an easier transition than the traditional route,” jokes Ryan, “I have never changed a diaper and have probably only been woken up twice in the night.” It may have seemed like a big move, but they were ready. “If everyone chooses to take their own personal step, then we can see big change,” says Ryan. He hopes that their work can encourage others to look around and find ways to have a positive impact in their own communities. Ryan shares more of his journey in his upcoming book, Run the Mile You’re In: Finding God in Every Step that releases this month. Packed full of insights on identity, purpose, and calling, he writes about how to pursue a relationship with, and direction from, God, no matter a person’s journey.

Ryan’s personal race has come full circle; he heard from God on the side of the lake in California that someday he would help others through running, and that vision has come to fruition. He has traveled the world, grown his family, competed with his heroes, and yet still realizes that the best race is the one run not for himself, but for God and those around him. Keep up with all of the amazing things that Ryan and Sarah are doing around the world on Instagram, Twitter, their website, and through the Hall Steps Foundation.

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Laura:
[00:00:06] Welcome to the Hope Sports Podcasts where we believe the best way for you to unlock your full potential is by
living into your purpose. We believe discovering your purpose is the only way for you to live a meaningful life. I'm your host
Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. And each week I have the privilege of connecting with a different elite athlete to
discuss how they win big in and out of their sport. We want you to compete better and live into your purpose. So stick around
to hear about an amazing opportunity that we have for you. But first, let's talk about today's episode. This week we're joined by
Olympic marathon runner Ryan Hall. And it was such a treat to connect with him on the show. You'll hear about his incredible
accomplishments throughout his career and his mountaintop experiences as an athlete. But what I hope you really take away is
how he overcame seasons of immense struggle in his life. He has so much wisdom to share with each of us as we run our own
race and his message is so encouraging. So let's go ahead and dive on in. Ryan Hall thank you so much for coming on the Hope
Sports Podcast today.
Ryan:
[00:01:07] My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Laura:
[00:01:09] OK For those listening to that may not know your background. Can you kind of take us through how you got into
sports in the first place and how that led you to running?
Ryan:
[00:01:16] Yeah. So my dream growing up is to play professional baseball. The problem was I was you going into high school
like 100 pounds and 5 ft tall. So it's not the ideal frame it turns out for baseball. So you know like I was training really hard and
remember I would throw pitches against a backstop. My daddy built for me in our backyard for hours and hours and pretend
like I was like we need to make the World Series or what not you know. So like I had the dream I had the drive but I just didn't
have like the physical makeup to make that reality you know. And I was grateful that like I learned that at a really young age
because if I would've kept going down that road I probably would've felt like I said my head against the wall for a long time.
You know that's just not how God designed me so it happened one day when I was going down to basketball game and I never
played. I always sat on the bench and basketball was gonna get on the team but that was about it. And I remember looking at it
like in my hometown Big Bear Lake in Southern California. And I just felt like I'd just kind of planted this little seed of a
desire to try and run around the lake which is 15 miles around the lake.
Laura:
[00:02:26] That’s a big lake!
Ryan:
[00:02:25] So it's a big first round. For a first time runner, it's not a good starting point usually. But that's just kind of who I am
is like I'm a dreamer I love to dream big dreams. But I felt like this one was like there's something different about this dream?
Because I hated the run like I didn't like it at all. Like every time like as in P.E. class and kids have to run the mile like I'd be
just like all my classmates go No I don’t wanna run the mile today. But then I'd go and I'd run hard and I'd run well but it
wasn't my passion I didn't enjoy it. So there's hope to any listeners out there that maybe think you're not ever going to get into
running coz you hate it. That can change. That can change for me that day. So you know I went out and I ran the 15 miles
around the lake with my dad the following Saturday and.
Laura:
[00:03:15] Wait. So like there was no preparation for this? You just went out and ran it with him?
Ryan:
[00:03:19] Yeah yeah yeah. So I got home from the basketball game and told my dad what I wanted to do and then the next
weekend we went out and did it. And it was a long slow painful effort. I feel like I was out there for days and days like it was
just like I just went I'll just breeze through it no problem. You know it wasn't that way at all. It was like really really

challenging. So I came home and I collapsed on the couch and super tired super fatigue. And I felt like I was like he'd give me
a gift to run with the best guys in the world. But he gave me that gift so I could help other people. And I think that was the
launching point my entire career you know. And I knew what it means around with the best guys in the world like I'd seen the
Olympics. So like right off the bat like I was like that's where I'm going. You know I always had that belief from that moment
was 13 but I didn't understand how you can help other people around you. Now it happened you know come on down the line
actually right after the Beijing Olympic swim. I learned how powerful and impactful sports can be to change people's lives on
the other side of the globe from us.
Laura:
[00:04:26] Yeah. I love that. I do have to ask though. Is your dad a runner?
Ryan:
[00:04:30] He was. Yeah yeah. And he still is. He's actually like the only one still running our family. We all ran like all the
kids stopped and he's still going. I think that run took a lot of patience on his end because he was a bit like running marathons
and so he felt like we were out for a walk a long long walk.
Laura:
[00:04:39] That's awesome.
[00:04:50] We'll that’s call father-son bonding right? That’s good.
Ryan:
[00:04:53] Yeah. Exactly.
Laura:
[00:04:54] Awesome. Well so you ran through high school then and it led you to Stanford. Like what made you decide to go to
Stanford?
Ryan:
[00:05:01] Yeah it's like I feel like God does this to me all the time to the one squad ruled out is like I'm not going to Stanford.
At the time they were like the running powerhouse school on like the trendy place to go in. And like I have never been one of
those people who likes to follow trends you know. So it was like all pride you know like all my pride is like I'm not going
everyone goes there. And then there is also like the academic piece because you know I got good grades in high school. But I
took a very basic level classes like it and take like on a research a P.E. stuff in high school. So I wasn't prepared for the
academics at Stanford at all. So I knew that was going to be a stretch for me if I end up going there.
[00:05:44] But then one of my friends Drew Ryan he introduced me to the coach we're up there a cross-country meet during
my senior year in high school. And the coach like Hey we should just go around I'll show you the campus and stuff. I talked to
my really like the coach and then I did go on like four more recruiting trips to different schools. And ultimately I remember I
sitting in the church at Stanford. Have you been to the church?
Laura:
[00:06:06] I haven't.
Ryan:
[00:06:07] Oh, it's amazing! And the quad there's this beautiful beautiful church like something that you'd see in like Italy or
something. And I remember sitting in there and then I was trying to decide where to go to school. And again I felt like kind of
the prompting of God to go to Stanford and again like it was not an easy road at Stanford. I struggled hard like in every aspect
of life. The only thing that was really stable for me during my four years at Stanford was my relationship with Sarah who's
now my wife. But we dated all throughout my time at Stanford and her time at Stanford. And without that like literally like
nothing would have been going well for a long long time. Just academically like my teachers were very very very concerned

that even like make it through. Just so far behind everyone else. And then you're trying to just juggle so much as a student-
athlete and at Stanford, they don't cut you any breaks. You know in the same classes same expectations as we're not getting any
special treatment. So it was a real struggle.
[00:07:10] And then there's like all these injuries that came up into that point like early on in my career at Stanford. My whole
identity was kind of wrapped around how I perform. And so when I looked in the mirror like that's what it was all about. And it
worked out when I was in high school except performing at a really high level. Like set a state record in 1600 my senior year
and not a very good high school career. But then when things are going downhill that just totally it's like someone took the rug
out from under me because now I know it's in there. I didn't like that I wasn't performing on the track. So that was a huge shift
that happened. Actually, I got really depressed in my sophomore year at Stanford left school. I thought that I could change
what was going on inside of me by changing the circumstances of my external situation. So I went home back to Big Bear after
winter quarter in my sophomore year. I didn't know if I didn't come back.
[00:08:07] I didn't know what I was going to do but I knew I had to sort stuff out inside me. So I could just feel this like real
happiness. And this really kind of like lack of love for myself you know. So I ended up choosing to go back to Stanford and
just spend a lot of time with God. And in really like learning to see myself how he sees me. And as I kind of was able to adopt
that view was super powerful. And like getting away from that performance burden that I'd been carrying around my whole life
really. And in sports kind of started become fun again because I was OK with family and messing up and getting it wrong you
know. And it wasn't an instant change you know. It's not like I went back and got all this figured out in like a week. And then a
week later it was running fast like there's a long slow gradual shift that kind of happened and started from the inside. Then it
slowly started to come out externally and then start performing better and better in cross-country and track. And I was able to
sign a contract with these six come out of college. And I run professional for 10 years and got a Campbell Olympic Games and
some pretty cool experiences. But you know it was a tough road getting there and I learned through so much through it all.
Laura:
[00:09:22] I love that. I love that you said it wasn't just an overnight thing like that stuff does take time and a lot of times you
just get frustrated we try to run away. Just I mean just like what you were saying I had just resonates so much with me and
athletes that I know. Yeah and I love that you just stuck with it and you knew the change was coming because it had to. You
had to start from the inside to make any kind of difference. That's awesome. And your wife Sarah who is your girlfriend at the
time was your stability I guess through college. So what was it like kind of you know I mean your dating her then you get
married. And you guys are both runners you know is that a good thing or is there some conflict there? I mean what is that
dynamic like?
Ryan:
[00:09:57] I definitely think it's a good thing. You know like to be a professional runner it's not just like a sport or hobby it's
like an entire lifestyle. So if you're married to someone who's not willing to allow you to live that lifestyle? Like you're running
wouldn't work at all. Like you'd have to like stop running to make that work you know. Or you just have to sacrifice and not
like to develop your talent to the full level and the running round. But for Sarah and I nice because we were both going after
the same thing the same lifestyle. I mean I feel like sometimes I was like you're constantly like eating healthy, sleeping a ton,
going to bed at like 8:30 at night, getting up at 7, taking afternoon naps and stuff. So it was a blessing for us because we got
spent so much time together. We're both literally like she's out training and then at home together. So it's a really cool season of
life. And even now still like I'm retired but my lifestyle hasn't shifted a whole lot. You know I don't take as naps in the
afternoon or sleep as much anymore. But we're still together all the time and I coach her. So I don't even out there when she's
running and only I'm on a bike now. It's only going to be alongside.
Laura:
[00:11:11] Nice change of pace there. That's cool. Well in 2007 you won the Houston Half Marathon in a time of 59 minutes
and 43 seconds. The first American to break the one hour mark for a half marathon. And you still hold the American record for
the fastest half marathon. Was that the event that you had to record. That's so cool. So what was that race like?

Ryan:
[00:11:32] Yeah. That was you know telling the story of like running with the best guys in the world. That was kind of the first
time that that was an actual reality. I had competed at the World Championships in track and competed in Europe on the track.
But I was never really in the race like I can remember running five games against the best guys in the world and I'm like
watching on the jumbotron. There's Ching and I like on the other side of the track you know. So like this isn’t really running
with the best guys in the world. Maybe in the same race I'm not really the same race. But as I moved up to the longer stops
things just really started to click and see at the time when I ran that time 59:43. That was one of the top ten times like ever run
for that distance. So like now it's more commonplace to see a lot of guys under an hour. But at the time that was kind of their
territory so that was kind of the moment whereas woah like you have the vision for a long time you're kind of chasing the
vision. And then you have that moment where you realize it and you're in it and you're kind of like at the top of the mountain.
That was kind of the experience there.
[00:12:37] But it was the same as what you hear most athletes talk about their greatest performances. It was it felt really easy
you know I felt like I could have done another one afterwards. And you finished the race and you're like oh I can definitely run
faster than that. And then you know I never even got within a minute of that time after that. As an athlete you have those
mountaintop experiences. And with athletes I'm working with now I'm like guys like soak it in because you may think you can
run faster and you might. I hope you do. You know I hope I'm wrong. But even if you don't like let's make sure we enjoy this
moment for what it is because we don't know what the future holds.
Laura:
[00:13:17] Exactly. Well just a couple months after that in April you placed 7th and the London Marathon and it was your first
ever marathon on 208 and the fastest debut marathon by an American. I mean that's pretty insane. Had you been planning on
doing marathons for a while? What made you kind of graduate to these longer distances?
Ryan:
[00:13:37] Yeah. There's actually the experience I was telling you about being on the track in Europe and watching guys finish.
That the moment where you know for a while as an athlete you're kind of developing. You don’t really know where your gifts
and talents really truly are. You know especially in the running realm you don't know how fast your foot speed is and that kind
of dictates a lot with the elite distance running. But it was at that time where I realized like 5 game I was not gonna be
competitive. So I need to be humble enough to move up even though I didn't necessarily want to. And then like I said it seems
like you moved up like things just really really clicked. And so I was actually training for my first marathon when I ran 59
minutes and a half marathon. So I just changed my training up and is running more than I had ever run before doing harder
workouts. And that's when things really really clicked in my body and took off.
[00:14:31] And I was planning on running the Los Angeles Marathon actually was my first one. And then Houston happened
and then the doors kind of opened for me to get to go to London. That was such a cool experience because I got to race against
guys like how they gave us slots. You know these are guys who were the greatest runners of all time in that era. And it was just
really surreal to be running next to them at mile 14 going across Tower Bridge. You know with all my heroes of running and
stuff. Another one of those moments were like this is what what I pictured you known when I was 13 on that couch.
Laura:
[00:15:06] That’s so cool. So epic. I love it. You paint such a good picture of that. Well at that same year in November you won
the U.S. Olympic Team Trials in the marathon in 209. I mean that's pretty insane. You just started running marathons that year
and you made the Olympic team. I mean what was that like? I mean I know you said you wanted to run against the best guys
in the world. Was the Olympics always part of that dream? Or did not just kind of come up as you ran these longer distances?
Ryan:
[00:15:33] Yeah yeah. That’s part of the dream you know. They still don't have a half marathon in Olympic. So if you're going
to run longer than 10K it has to be the marathon distance.

Laura:
[00:15:43] So what was it like at the Olympics? I mean was it everything you dreamed of? Was it totally just for you kind of in
shock or at all? Like what was your race like? Was it what you expected or what you hoped for?
Ryan:
[00:15:56] Yeah. You know it lived up to its expectations in many ways like the hype being in the village like you know I'd
watch Cool Runnings a million times.
Laura:
[00:16:06] I love that movie.
Ryan:
[00:16:08] Yeah. It’s so good. And you always wondering was it actually like Olympic Village and stuff you know. And like
that part of the experience was I remember like walking out of the closing ceremonies next to Yao Ming you know he's like
super tall who we're in China. And so like all the people are just going crazy on and stuff. So there is moments like that. Was
like wow this is like really really amazing experience and like I feel so honored to get to be here. But then in terms of you
know what I dreamed of as a kid I didn't necessarily have to win the gold medal or even podium. But I just really wanted to
have my best stuff on that day. You know like be the best version of myself be as fit as I'd ever been like. Like have my
Houston day but at the Olympic games like that's what I wanted the most you know. But what I've learned in sports is
sometimes like no matter how much you want it. No matter how well you prepare. No matter how good of a coach you have.
You have everything in place. Like sometimes things just don't click. Like I haven't figured it out completely you know.
[00:17:15] But I've certainly just experienced that it's like I didn't change anything up on the same person. I'm training the
same way. I'm eating the same way. I'm sleeping. Doing everything same. And having two very different results you know like
one just effortlessly floating through a race 6 months before that. And then 6 months later I'm just struggling in my fitness. So
that was kind of my story leading up to the race. My fitness wasn't quite as good as I wanted it to be. Training had been rocky
kind of up and down and just been kind of kind of struggling you know. So on starting line I was nervous but I still had like the
outside hope of trying to grab a medal you know. Like I just run the London marathon again for my second time and personal
best in 206 and finish 5th. And so you know those are the the best guys in the world we all go to London. So it’s like in
London. You know maybe I could pick up a couple more spots and grab a medal in Beijing.
[00:18:11] But that was him I my experience unfortunately you know. I wasn't at my best upon Bigfoot. But still such a great
experience to immediately grow through. I remember doing a warm up run the day before a marathon. We always just jog like
30 minutes, do some drills and strides. And during that time I like to sometimes do it by myself and just have a little
conversation with God and be like What do you have for today? You know like for tomorrow? Like what do you want to tell
me? And you know I was always like hoping you can give me some like verse about David and Goliath or something like that
you know. Or soaring on wings of eagles and effortlessly flying through the race. But you actually reminded me of this story
during that moments Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego. Which there were the guys who were being thrown into a fiery
furnace. And the king because they wouldn't worship the king's idols. Nebuchadnezzar idols and this is in way back in the day.
And I just love their response to the King.
[00:19:11] They're like even if God doesn't show up we're not gonna bow down to worship. And I think that was really like the
word God had for me for my race the following day. Was like you need to set your heart in such a way. So even if you don't
perform how you hope dreams, planned it out, drew it up in your head. It's not going to change your heart towards me. Or even
like my heart towards myself you know. Like finding that I'm still a worth I'm still a value even if I don't have my best
performance. On the day when I want it more than anything else you know. I could order on one day be today. But how might
you respond if that's not the case. So it really helped me during that race. Nothing to help me because I found myself about
halfway into the Olympic marathon back way way back. So I went out really fast even though it’s super hot and humid in
Beijing. Now it's back in like 30th-60th I don’t remember what place I was in. It was way back and it's kinda pouting myself
like what's going on? I'm so frustrated and how come I'm so far back. You know these are the thoughts are gone through my

head.
[00:20:18] And again I felt like God was gonna tell me like I want you to start encouraging people around you. Which is really
odd because in our sport that doesn't happen you know. Usually guys aren't cheering for each other when they're running which
is fine you know. I get it. But I just started to do that. I started just I’ll catch a guy and it's been okay good job man you're
doing great. Let's work together and try to catch a group in front of us. Rather say a couple of words. You know just try and
encourage them a little bit. But again it was like getting to my heart and it was making me get outside of myself. And think
about other people and trying to help and encourage other people. And as I did that I stepped out on that I found that I started
to gain courage. I started to feel better about my situation. I think it was because whenever you're internal and you're in a lot of
pain and suffering like you are in a marathon. The more internal you are the more you're aware of all this pain you know.
[00:21:11] I found thinking about other people other things I'm outside myself in things I'm able to push harder. Coz I'm not as
aware of the pain. Coz I found like whatever you focus on it's going to increase the sensation. So just really let me go outside
of myself and start encouraging some other people. And I started to work my way up and ended up finishing intense position.
Which still wasn't what I hoped for but it was the best that I could do on that day. And you know I'm still very proud of that
performance even though it wasn't everything I dreamed of.
Laura:
[00:21:47] I totally get that. We had a guest on one of our first episodes is a performance scientist Dr. Ben Houltberg. And he
talks about purpose based identity and performance based identity. And just like what you were saying just having that purpose
beyond yourself makes such a big difference. You know for the people around you but also for you. That's really really cool.
You could walk away even though it wasn't maybe the finish you wanted like you walk away with that amazing experience. So
cool. So a year after Beijing you and your wife Sara co-founded the Hall Steps Foundation. I would love for you to tell us
about your foundation.
Ryan:
[00:22:22] Yeah. So this actually happened kind of in the wake of Beijing. Sara and I became spokespersons for Team World
Vision. And their goal for the Chicago Marathon that fall after the Olympics was to have about 500 runners come together.
Fundraise to bring clean water to a community in Zambia 90,000 people didn't have access to clean water. So we are just like
spreading the word about it like just trying to tells me people as we could. And just a part of that team. And so we have
opportunity after the Beijing Olympics to go to Zambia. And watch them like cut the ribbons of these boreholes that had just
been poured you know. And they had access to clean water for the first time in their life. And I'll never forget I was at a ribbon
cutting ceremony just like way out mistakes in some old tiny village. And this guy this village guy and they all speak English
there. It's like the business language you know so they learn in school. Which was really cool because I didn't think I'll talk to
anyone going over there. But he is telling me is like hey because you guys brought clean water to us like everyone in my
community their life expectancy is going to go up by 10 years.
[00:23:38] And that was kind of the moment for me where going back to my 13 year old self and hearing that like I'd been
given a gift to help other people. That was kind of moment like this is how you help other people through running. It's like I
was a part of a team of people that did some fundraising ran a race. And as a result now 90,000 people in Zambia are getting to
live 10 years longer. Like you're actually adding years to people's lives because you ran a race you know. And I was just such a
powerful moment for both me and Sara like I went back home and I'd start training. And I'd just be thinking about these kids
that I interacted with ran with over there. That are in tattered clothes which is the biggest smile on their face you know. I guess
a very interesting interaction whereas like I wanted to help them in terms of like health, wellness, school, education,
empowerment, all of that.
[00:24:32] But they also had something that like I think we're lacking here in the States which is a real sense of community.
You know it's like when things are tough over there like they have to rely on each other. And that just builds a really really
strong community. And as a result at least this is my opinion they're just super happy people. Like I hadn't seen Joy like that
anywhere else in the world. Despite such like amazing poverty you know. So were able to help on bringing clean water to

them. But they really challenged me to find joy in my life and find joy through community. So you know we came back home
from that trip and Sara and I knew we wanted to do more. And we knew we wanted to continue to support World Vision and
the work they're doing which is amazing work they're doing all over the world. But we also wanted to support other kind of
local organizations. And some of our own projects that we were excited about doing so we started the Hall Steps Foundation.
[00:25:30] And so it's basically set up the same as like Team in Training or something like that. Where you can run any race in
the U.S. you just go to our website thestepsfoundation.org sign up and create a fundraising page. And then every single dollar
that you fundraise for your race goes towards our projects so we're 100% volunteer run. So that's a really cool thing about our
organization is you know every single dollar is going towards the projects we're supporting. And we've gotten to support some
really cool projects along the way. Like we partner with one of my friends in Kenya we helped to build a health clinic in his
community that didn't have access to hospitals or health clinics. People have to take like buses for like 8 hours at a time. Like
his brother actually died of a snake bite that shouldn't have taken his life you know. But you just didn't have access to the
medicine he needed to to fix the problem.
[00:26:46] So we partnered with my friend Wesley Korir he's actually Boston Marathon Champion. And we built this health
clinic and now people in that community have access to meet their medical needs. Things like that. We love doing stuff with
empowerment as well. So we partner with Cuba leading microloans to women in developing countries. Help them start their
own businesses so that they can work themselves out of poverty. And then we're doing a lot in Ethiopia as well with mainly
with child care and trying to help them. Kind of get going a foster care system actually because they just closed down
international adoption which really kind of changed things in their country. They still have a ton of orphans in their country but
now they're trying to figure out how they can take care of all those orphaned kids within the country. So we're kind of
partnering with local organizations there to help bring those kids into families.
Laura:
[00:27:31] That's awesome. So many great things that you guys are doing through your foundation I love it.
[00:27:37] At Hope Sports we know that you want to be the best athlete that you can be. And in order to do that, you train hard
and dedicate yourself to performing at your peak. But sometimes it can feel monotonous. Every day has a similar routine and
when you win well no victory feels as good as a loss feels bad. It doesn't have to be this way. We believe athletes can compete
at their full potential and reach their dreams while feeling lasting satisfaction from their accomplishments. We understand what
it's like when you've dedicated your life to something. But you feel like you're never living up to people's expectations and you
don't feel satisfied with your achievements. Hundreds of athletes have told us that they've discovered how to compete at their
best while finding lasting fulfillment in their achievements during our interactive international service trips. Our next trip is
coming up June 7th-10th in Rosarito Mexico and we want you to be there. It's so easy to get involved. Just go to
HopeSports.org sign up for the June 7th-10th home build and build hope for a family and win like never before. So sign up
today. It could be the key you need to find success in your career.
[00:28:44] The running side of things now I know in 2011 you set a new PR the Boston Marathon. You made the 2012
Olympic team like things were looking good. But then you had to drop out of the marathon at the London games around the 11
mile mark because of a hamstring injury. You've dealt with injuries you dealt with not feeling good. What was that like how did
you do that at the Olympic Games?
Ryan:
[00:29:06] Yeah. It was definitely like one of those surreal moments where you feel like you're in a movie or a dream like that
just really happened. I'd never dropped out of any race in my entire life you know. Like I never even stopped and walked in
any race and my entire life. So like that was never an option in my mind. But just having this sharp pain was out running and I
just decided after having a little conversation with God is better to live to fight another day. So you just stepped off the course
almost started running again just did it felt so wrong I was like this isn't right you know. Not at all what I was picturing
happening but I stepped off and it was hard you know. But I've been through so much discouragement and hard times before
that. It really kind of prepared me for that moment. So I was down as disappointed afterwards for a couple of days. But I like to

do something that actually my wife's kinda taught me. Like she allows herself to be really down to disappointed for a certain
amount of time. So it could be a day could be two days whatever she feels like she needs. And then after that it's like OK now
moving forward and like I'd grieve the loss now I’m moving forward.
[00:30:25] So I kind of did that you know I had a couple of days or maybe a couple weeks I don’t know exactly how long it
was. I was really down and bombed out. But then I started moving forward and the good thing about running is there's always
big races look forward to you. Whether it's the Boston marathon, in New York City Marathon, Chicago, London. You know
there's all these big great opportunities for runners to get to try and win a title. So I just kind of kept moving forward but we
kind of started this nasty string of injuries. So the hamstring thing started because when I was running actually training for the
2012 Olympic trials I developed plantar fasciitis on my foot. And so I had to just run through it coz there's like no instant cure
for plantar fasciitis like usually just last a while and then eventually get better. So I was running through it and just like very
small alteration of my stride caused an injury on the opposite side of my body. So with the hamstring and then I heard my
hamstring and then literally it was almost comical how ridiculous it was. I was always really hard didn't have a lot of injuries
before that. Then I tore my right quad and tore my left quads and I got all sacral stress fractures on my right side. And it was
just like this ridiculous string of like compensation injuries. So I learned a big lesson there about running through injuries and
how detrimental that can be to your body. I did eventually come out the other side of that were stopped getting hurt.
[00:31:59] But then I kind of started of struggle with just I call it extreme fatigue. So I'd been running at that point for 16 17
years and running like 100 miles a week see running like 15 miles a day. And that's a long time to be running that much and
not just easy running. It's all a pretty high quality not all but we have three high quality workouts for weeks. Just demanded a
ton of my body and it is kind of at that point where my body is like there's nothing on the left side. So I'm free to start slowing
down and start giving back to your body. So after about that it was 4 year time and you cramps at my injury at the London
Olympics all the way. So I was training for the 2016 on big trials and still just like having really bad fatigue issues. And I tried
everything I could think to try. I work with a whole bunch different coaches and tried mixing up my nutrition. Tried rest. I tried
everything and I think to try nothing was working. My body was just clearly like tired and fatigue can ready to for me to get
back to it. So that's when I ultimately ended up deciding to retire from running. And I kind of move on into this next season of
life.
Laura:
[00:33:15] Was that a hard transition? Or were you just kind of ready at that point?
Ryan:
[00:33:20] Yeah. I was always nervous about the day I was gonna retire you know. Because like running had been my craft, my
passion, everything for 20 years you know. So I didn't know how’s gonna react when I hung up my shoes. But with how it
ended and just having it be kind of a long slow gradual four year process of coming to this realization. That I'd gotten
everything out of my body and there's nothing else there allowed me to make the decision. And actually feel a kind of a sense
of relief with it which I was surprised by I wasn't expecting to feel relief. But it kind of felt like I could finally look back on my
career and be thankful for what I got to experience and the performances I did have. And then stops striving to try to get back
to those you know I could finally just like fully appreciate it. And then also during that time and actually while I was writing
my book kind of powerful realization came to me that my journey wasn't all about me you know. And now like I needed to
take the things I learned in that season in my life and pull them into my next season of life. Which is in writing, speaking,
coaching, and trying to help other people along on their own journeys that they're on.
Laura:
[00:34:43] Since retiring you've transformed your body gaining what like 40 pounds of muscle? I'd love to hear about this.
Ryan:
[00:34:51] Yes. It's funny cause I feel like there's a big theme in my life where I don't enjoy doing something and then it kind
of becomes like my passion in crafts. So before like I do weight training for running but never upper body. I just always try to
get through it as fast as I could because it just wasn't specific for running really. Like I didn't see the correlation between lifting

more weight running faster. Which was a wrong way of seeing it in hindsight. But all that to say like I didn't enjoy the weight
or not. And so when I retired from running I retired at about 3 1/2 years ago has 5'10” and 127 lbs which was too light for me. I
just needed to find something to get back to my body. And running is so cattle bollock in nature just strips your body of
everything it doesn't need to run fast. So I kind of got into that weightlifting as a way to give back to my body as a way to build
it up and make it strong. And then also to just because I was curious like any time I'd be around some big strong person I was
always really curious. Just like know what that would feel like to be big and strong.
[00:36:02] So I kind of started the journey and it was really really fun. Because one of the things I love about sports is seeing
results and seeing progress. And I wasn't seeing that in running for 4 years and then finally with the lifting. Like I was so bad at
it I had nowhere to go. So I was encourage people like if you want to find a sport that's fun try something you're really bad at.
And then it's me so much fun coz it gonna grow and get better and better and better. So that's kind of the journey I've been on
it's just fun. You know the other day I was squatting I hit three 90 for the first time. And it's just fun to see growth. It's fun to
get underweight you could just failed at it like 100 times in a row. And then finally be able to give it up is just such an amazing
sensation. It kind of feels that I need to see personal growth and to see physical growth in my body.
Laura:
[00:37:00] I love your. I love your attitude. I love how you always try stuff that you really don't want to do. And so cool. So
cool. There’s so many things that I just love and admire about you and your wife. But there's one especially that's near and dear
to my heart because I'm also an adoptive mom. I have girls from China and Ethiopia. And I know you and Sara adopted four
girls from Ethiopia. And I wanna know all the things. What made you want to adopt? Why Ethiopia? What was that process
like? And how in the world did you survive going from childless to parents of four girls overnight?
Ryan:
[00:37:32] Yeah. I love telling the story because again like I just didn't see adoption at all growing up. So it wasn't so much like
I was opposed to it. It just wasn't on my grid so I didn't have any desire to adopt until I met Sara. But then Sara's story is very
much the opposite of that where there is adoptive kids and your extended family. And she'd been around it seen it and always
wanted to adopt ever since she was a little girl. So she actually mentioned it on our first date. And I was like oh well I've never
even thought about that you know. So it's kind of like when the ball started turning on my mind started considering it. And then
you know fast forward years and years later after we're married and training professionally. One of the things I loved about
running was you got to train all over the world. And go to beautiful locations to train and train with just you really inspiring
incredible people from every different culture. And so we would go to Kenya and train. We ended up going to Ethiopia to train.
[00:38:34] And there was just something about Ethiopia that just kind of grabbed us and gripped us. Where we just fell in love
with the people and the culture and the country and this food and the music just kind of everything about it. The running was
fabulous. So just kind of like really grabbed us by one of the things that also grabbed us was being on the streets in Addis and
driving around. And seeing all these kids out on the streets orphans and in tattered clothes and shining shoes. And kids would
come up to me and asked to shine my shoes for like 10 cents. And they'd be so stoked if I gave them like equivalent of a dollar
you know. So that really pulled on our heart and we're like with our foundation you know we're all about just taking our step
you know. It's like we can't force other people to take their step but if everyone chooses to take their own personal step we can
see big change and big results. So our step was moving into the adoption phase of our life where we felt ready to take on
Parenthood. And so being in Ethiopia and seeing orphans and having opportunity to adopt from there. We decided we'd try and
adopt an infant just one in fact was our original plan. And so we're number like 76 on a waitlist it was going to be a couple of
years before we'd have our our infant.
[00:39:55] And then what happened is we're overtraining in Ethiopia and we went visited the orphanages. And we noticed that
there is all these older children in the orphanages that were waiting for families. And so I was like this doesn't make sense I'm
like number seventy six on the waitlist all these kids are waiting for families. And after it was the face to face interaction that
really broke my heart and made me decide to adopt older children. Because after meeting the kids, playing with the kids,
hangout with the kids I was like man I take anyone's these kids home you know. So we went home we changed up all of our
paperwork how to change agencies even. And became aware of our daughters through like a friend in Facebook page is kind

like around about what they're really looking for a family for these four biological sisters. They'd been looking for a family for
3 years weren't able to find a family. And they're talking about maybe sending two of them with one family in like Australia
and to another family in Italy or something like that.
[00:41:02] And so you know coming from a big family I'm in the middle of five kids is like you know separate siblings like
you know. They've already been through so much and they don't need to lose each other. So you know we just felt kind of love
in our heart for our girls. And I always like to tell people like there is a very real fear that was involved with adopting and
mainly a fear of my own inadequacy. You know like for example our social worker. She wouldn't even approve us to adopt the
4 girls because she didn't believe we could do it. So you talked about something that shake your own confidence you know.
But instead of following that fear I just followed like the love that God had put in my heart for my girls. And I knew if I had
that love in my heart that's what I needed. I chose to follow the path of loving when I'm at my best and making decisions based
on love not based on fear. And so that's what we did is a leap of faith you know. But it's just been such an incredible road. The
girls have blessed us so much.
[00:42:08] And you know actually going from 0 to 4 was I think it a lot of ways easier than like the normal round that you
could take. Because so like for example all we knew previous to this was just like Sara and I in empty house you know. And
then our normal just changed just once. It changed from 0 kids to 4 kids. It didn't change like four separate times or is like
you're getting used to 1 kid and you get used to 2 and then 3 and then 4. It's like every time you kind of shift your normal
there's always like a stirring and shaking that's like kind of like initially hard you know. But we just kinda have like one. One
and done. So in a lot of ways I feel like I'm going to cheat the system. And also our kids when we adopted them were 5, 8, 12
and 15. So I've never changed a diaper I've gotten woken up in the middle of the night maybe like twice in my life. So a lot of
ways like I have it pretty easy like our kids are already like almost like you know babysit each other, home and stuff. So we
could go out for training and stuff and they would be totally fine.
Laura:
[00:43:22] Now you also have a new book out this month as if you're not busy enough with those four girls and it's called Run
the Mile You're In: Finding God in Every Step. Please tell us about it.
Ryan:
[00:43:32] Yeah. I'm really excited to share the story you know like Tom Dean at Zondervan. He's a runner and he had
approached me about writing a book you know years and years ago. But I still like very much in the middle of it telling them
my story. And then once I retired he reached back out again and the timing just felt right you know. I felt a sense of closure
with that chapter of my life. And I felt ready to share this story with people. And I found it to be a really therapeutic process for
me to go through to sit down and write every morning. It's kind of like make sense of my entire career and try and pull out all
the biggest lessons from my career and share those with other people. Just in the hope of helping people on their journey. Like
I kind of wrote it from the perspective of how’s my 13 year old self getting in to sports. Like what things would I wanna
become aware of. And like I remember being super curious like what does it take to get to the Olympics you now. And so like
a lot of this is like my story of like learning what it does take to get to the Olympics. Or just for you to develop your own
potential and your hobby, your craft, as a dad, at work. Like just for you to become the best version of yourself. And these
were just like kinda lessons that I've been learning in all my journey and continue to learn as I continue on my own journey.
Laura:
[00:44:58] I love it. It sounds so good. Where can we grab a copy of it?
Ryan:
[00:45:02] Yes you can get it on Amazon and then also Barnes and Noble. And whatever else fine books are sold I believe.
Laura:
[00:45:12] All right. Run the Mile You're In: Finding God in Every Step. Well Ryan where else can we follow you online to
just continue to be encouraged by you? To learn more about the Hall Steps Foundation. All of the thing.

Ryan:
[00:45:22] Yeah. So you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram my handles @ryanhall3 on both of those. And then our
foundation is thestepsfoundation.org And then my wife now we also have a website ryanandsarahall.com So those are all good
places to track us down.
Laura:
[00:45:41] Awesome. Ryan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast for just sharing your absolutely incredible story
encouraging us and just inspiring us.
Ryan:
[00:45:50] My pleasure. Thanks for having me Laura.
Laura:
[00:45:53] Wow. There is just so much powerful stuff in there. I know I've said that before but these athletes are just sharing
truth bomb after truth bomb. What I love most are the two strategies that Ryan shared that got him through difficult moments
in his life. The first, is solidifying his identity the regardless of the results he still has value and worth in the world. And
second, is turning his gaze outward. Remember when he ran a marathon and encouraged other people along the way? Not only
is that an incredible blessing for those other people but in turn it shifted Ryan's own attitude and improved his morale and his
results. Sometimes we can get stuck in a rut and just by lifting up our eyes and looking to those around us that need help it
frees us. And all the work with the Hall Steps Foundation is so compelling. It has me wanting to strap on a pair of running
shoes and raise money to 5K. Maybe that'll be a great warmup before I go dive in the pool. You should definitely check it out
too and get involved. How awesome would it be to have a group of hope sports listeners mobilized to do amazing work in the
world just by running. Drop a comment on our Instagram or tag us at your next 5K. We want to shout it from the rooftops. And
if you want support in ways that you can grow as a competitor to overcome obstacles or to rock that 5K? Head on over to
LauraWilkinson.com/performance to grab my free guide 5 things that you can do today to become a more confident
competitor. Again that's LauraWilkinson.com/performance
[00:47:20] Thanks to Ryan for joining us today and I hope you tune in next week for our chat with Olympic Cyclist and hope
sports founder Guy East. As he shares about his journey through professional cycling. What caused him to hang up his bike for
a few years and what eventually led to the conception of Hope Sports. Be sure to hit that subscribe button because you do not
want to miss that episode on behalf of Hope Sports I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for tuning in and have a great week.
This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler Media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete
archives please visit HopeSport.org

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About This Episode

Alev Kelter has built an athletic legacy that few could even dream of. To call her an “all-around” athlete only scrapes the surface of her capacity, versatility, and drive. Growing up in Alaska, Alev tried her hand at all sorts of sports with her two brothers and twin sister, Daria. Early on it was clear that her natural athletic abilities would make her a stand out. By age 14 she was recruited for the Olympic Development Program in soccer, but she did not want to only pursue one sport and give up on her hockey dreams. With the encouragement of her mother she played both ODP soccer and competed on the US National Youth Hockey team. She credits her equally gifted twin sister for pushing her to be a better athlete and individual. Daria also competed at the national level in both sports and each of them were heavily recruited by Division 1 universities. When it came to committing to a school they didn’t want one anothers decisions to hold too much weight, so their father had them write a “Top 3” list of colleges on a piece of paper and put it in an envelope. When they opened them simultaneously, it appeared that the University of Wisconsin was the first choice for both of them.

 

Alev and Daria were recruited to play both soccer and hockey for the University of Wisconsin - something nearly unheard of at such a high level. The hockey team was coached by Mark Johnson, a former NHL player and Olympic gold medalist for Team USA’s “Miracle Team.” The university had a strong history of recruiting players who played at the professional level after graduation and Alev was excited to train with women of such caliber. She was always a student first, and an athlete second, and so was grateful that coaches and professors were flexible to accommodate her rigorous training and practice schedules. Following in the footsteps of her family, she started college as a pre-med student, but it only took one GenEd course in sculpture to sway her to becoming an art major; a fact that she took until her senior year to break to her parents. She discovered passion and freedom in her art classes, but unlike typical courses with portable books and papers, her studies were confined to studio time, which only compounded the complexity of her schedule. But, true to her character, Alev showed incredible commitment and work ethic in managing her studies and sports throughout her college career.

 

For some, playing even one Division 1 sport would be enough of an achievement, but Alev set her sights higher; she not only dreamed of competing in one Olympics, but aspired to play in back to back summer and winter games. The 2014 games in Sochi were on the horizon and Alev had been on - and even captained - the two previous U18 World Championship women’s hockey teams. Despite her obvious leadership and skills, she was not called up for the December Olympic training camp. “I was devastated,” says Alev, “I felt like I let down my family and friends, like all of the work wasn’t even worth it.” She returned to the classroom distracted, deflated, and depressed, something her art professors picked up on immediately. They encouraged her to take some time, give herself space, and pursue the support that she needed to gain perspective on the situation. As her fourth year of college came to a close, Alev headed back to Alaska to be with her family, the mountains, and for solitude.

 

Soon after arriving she picked up her snowboard and made a solo trek to one of her favorite nearby mountains. Without her sister, family members, or any other voices in her head, she stood on the peak, surrounded by fresh powder, and thought to herself, I’m just going to tackle the mountain with abandon. Regardless of if she crashed or fell or nailed it, she felt deeply that she had something to prove to herself. About halfway down she attempted a backflip and landed flat on her back. She stayed there in the snow and sun, all alone with her disappointments and grief. “As I laid there, a really strange memory came to mind,” she recalls. Her sister used to always rub it in that she was born first and Alev came second, a common jest among competitive twins, but in that moment it dawned on her how often she always felt “second.” She was constantly striving to get ahead, to define her position, to prove she belonged. “I had to tell myself, ‘You are no less of a person because you came second. You are no less of a person because of what just happened [with hockey],’” she says. She peeled herself up from the snow, set herself on the board again, and continued down the mountain with a new determination to not let this one “no” define her.

 

Some may just call it providential, but for Alev it was a clear act of God that when she got to the bottom of the hill that day and walked into the lodge, there was a voicemail on her phone from the coach of the USA Women’s Rugby team inviting her to join their training camp in San Diego. “I was convinced it was a prank by my sister,” says Alev. The coach, a fellow former hockey player, was recruiting talented athletes to play for the team and didn’t seem phased by her lack of experience. “I told him that I had never touched a rugby ball in my life and he said, ‘It’s ok! We have lots of balls here,’” she jokes. With nothing to lose, she decided to give it a try. Her only hesitation was how she would be received by the other players who already knew the sport and had been competing international. Fortunately, her arrival was nothing like she had feared. “They welcomed me with the biggest open arms you could imagine,” remembers Alev. Even though they could be potentially taking one anothers’ spot on the team, each woman truly wanted what was best for the program. “It wasn’t the coaching staff that taught me, it was the other women,” she says. They taught her to pass and tackle, how to avoid injury, and the intricate rules and strategies of the game. There she experienced friendship, patience, and honesty, which together fueled an amazing vulnerability and unity among the team. Virtually all of the athletes had crossed over from other sports and each experienced the learning curve of transitioning to rugby. After a few short months, Alev was competing with the team and two years later she paused in the middle of a speaking engagement to open an email with the headline “Congratulations!” and was able to finally call herself an Olympian.

 

The 2016 Olympics in Rio de Janiero, Brazil were not only monumental for Alev, but for the sport of rugby. It was the first year since 1924 that men and women’s rugby was featured in the Olympics, which made that event a historic one. Not only was she representing the USA, but she was introducing her nation to the sport. The team took fifth at the games, but were the only ones to tie the gold medal winning team and Alev was the first American woman to score a try at the Olympics.

 

She sustained a neck injury during the 2017 season that sidelined her for over a year, but she was confident in the value of supporting her teammates from the bench. Rugby is an intense contact sport and, in light of that, she has learned to be grateful for being relatively injury free for several years. The up and coming women on the team are phenomenal athletes and she looks forward to teaching, coaching, and encouraging them, just like her more seasoned teammates did for her. This year involves an international six-stop series before gearing up for the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo, where Alev hopes to make an appearance. Even though her journey to the Olympics looked nothing like what she expected, she is grateful for every twist and turn, victory and disappointment that brought her to rugby, to her teammates, and to a confidence in her identity. She no longer feels pressure to define herself by what sport she plays or what dream she achieves, but by the inherent value she has as a unique individual.

 

Be sure to follow Alev on Twitter, Instagram, and her website as she competes in the World Rugby Sevens Series.

 

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About This Episode

Hardly any kids grow up bobsledding regularly or even dreaming of reaching an elite level in the sport. The same was true for Elana Meyers Taylor. As a kid she played all sorts of sports before focusing on softball, which she went on to play for George Washington University. Throughout college it was her goal to play with the Olympic team, but tryouts did not go as she hoped. “I literally had the worst tryout ever,” Elana recalls. She swung over balls, misthrew relays, and bumbled catches, all of which solidified the disappointing end of her softball career.

Hanging up her cleats didn’t just signify the end of softball, it felt like letting go of her Olympic dreams. In the midst of the post-graduation listlessness, her parents saw bobsled on television and encouraged her to check it out. A quick google search and an email to the coach of the US National Team landed Elana an invitation to give bobsled a try. After a few shorts months on the track, she attended the Olympic Trials for the 2010 games in Vancouver and a selection committee chose her for the position of brakeman for a two woman team. In light of the immense pressure to simply make the American team, the actual Olympics were like a dream. She took time to be present, enjoying the celebration of diversity, athletics, and sportsmanship. With her bobsled partner she took bronze and will forever remember the bliss of her amatuer games.

But now that she had one Olympics and one medal under her belt, the pressure was on to go for gold. She increased her training and the frequency of competition. She took silver at the 2013 World Championships, but didn’t just head home with her medal, she walked away with a ring as well. Her boyfriend and fellow bobsledder, Nic Taylor, popped the question in front of her friends, family, and fans as she got down from the podium and broadcast their love story around the world.

Elana stepped into 2014 prepping for the Sochi Olympics and for her April wedding; a welcome distraction in the midst of such rigorous training. These games felt different, however. In Vancouver she was there to experience the Olympics, soak in the culture, and participate in the celebration of nations -- in Sochi she was there for gold. Rather than being selected for the role of brakeman, she earned a spot as the driver. Focused and competing well, they held onto their gold medal standing through three of the four cumulative heats. But a mental mistake early in the final heat cost them the gold. “We almost lost some of the fun of it because it was all about the medal, and maybe that’s why we didn’t get it,” Elana says. She walked away devastated and disappointed, truly more upset over not competing to her full potential than missing out on a gold medal.

Post Sochi she took a much needed reprieve from bobsled. She got married in April, and that summer trained in California at the same facility as the US Women’s Rugby Team which, like bobsled, is also known for attracting crossover athletes. Elana was invited to practice with the team and went on to play in two tournaments with the National Women’s Rugby Sevens team. “I found a community of really enthusiastic, encouraging women,” says Elana. It was the perfect change of pace after a disappointing Olympics, but she knew that her heart was still with bobsled.  She returned to the track that fall, albeit in a slightly different scenario. 2014 marked the end of a 75 year ban on women in four-man bobsled competition. With the right to drive secured Elana was immediately keen to give it a try, but she was having trouble getting anyone behind her in the sled. Her husband, Nic, was the first to volunteer to compete with her and his presence encouraged several more athletes to join. She became the first woman to compete in international mixed gender competition for the United States.

In 2018 both Elana and her husband represented Team USA in bobsled at the Olympics in PyeongChang. She was enlisted as a driver, while her husband was selected to the men’s team as an alternate. He may have been disappointed for a minute, “but he is the most positive person that I know,” says Elana. They were looking forward to experiencing the games together that year, but a week before competition Elana partially tore her achilles in a training exercise. Determined to compete, she arrived in PyeongChang in a wheelchair and had to radically alter her pre-race training to account for the injury. Oscillating between training as much as possible to be sharp, but as little as possible to recover, she needed to manage the pain and try to not do further damage. Her husband jumped on board with the trainers to quicken her recovery. He pushed her around the games in a wheelchair to cut back on walking and even refashioned her shoes to alleviate pressure on her ankle. She went on to win a silver medal that year, but wasn’t dampened by the disappointment she felt with the previous second place finish. Focused more on the experience and her efforts, rather than the outcome, left Elana feeling proud of what she offered and the medal she got to bring back with her.  “I wanted it to be fun for the people, and for the games,” Elana recalls.

Through the ups and downs of competition and injury, it’s her faith and her family that keep her grounded. Her father was a professional athlete and she credits him with instilling in her the importance of having other hobbies and passions. Even in her marriage the presence of sport is limited. “We have to ask permission to use the ‘b-word’ at home,” jokes Elana. With two professional bobsledders in the house, it would be easy to allow critiques of training, debates on strategy, or stress about upcoming races overshadow their relationship. “I have always managed to work or volunteer outside of my sport to make sure I don’t get too inundated with bobsled. ” she says. Most notably for Elana is her recent work with the Women’s Sports Foundation. The Foundation aims to encourage and advance the lives of girls and women through sports. Started by tennis legend Billie Jean King, the organization encourages professional athletes to be ambassadors to their communities, supports programs that involve young girls in a variety of sports, and advocates for sports equality for all. In 2018, Elana was named President of the Women’s Sports Foundation and awarded an honorary doctorate in Public Service from George Washington University.

Through it all she continues to train and fully intends to race in Beijing, but her regimen looks different now. Accounting for her injury and her age, she’s no longer pounding out intense workouts or testing her strength in the weight room. Her experience, self-awareness, and confidence allow her to craft a program that works for her and gives space in her life for things that matter more than another medal: service and family. Elana continues to be recognized for the inspiring woman that she is, so be sure to follow her on Instagram, Twitter, and at the Women’s Sports Foundation as she looks ahead to the 2022 Olympics and advocates for uplifting work around the world.

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Laura:
[00:00:05] Hello and welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast where each week amazing athletes share their personal stories of
overcoming obstacles and conquering fears. To encourage you in your unique journey towards purpose. I'm your host Olympic
gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. This week we have such an influential and inspiring guest Elana Meyers Taylor is a three-time
Olympian and an incredibly decorated bobsledder. But if you've ever felt like your dreams were dashed with one blundered
opportunity then Elana is your girl. Hear about how she navigated a failure so big that it seemed her Olympic aspirations
would never come to be. Elana also uses her success to advocate for others. She serves as the president of the Women's Sports
Foundation and will surely stir you to find ways to give back to those around you. All right. Let's dive on in. Elana welcome to
the Hope Sports Podcast! I am absolutely stoked that you're here with us today.
Elana:
[00:00:58] It's great to be here.
Laura:
[00:00:59] Now ok. You did not start off in bobsled for what you are so well-known for now. Can you kind of give us your
background? How you got started in the sports and how that eventually led to bobsled?
Elana:
[00:01:10] Yeah so just as a process most people given a bobsled through a variety of ways and nobody grows up bobsledding.
With the exception of where do you live in Lake Placid New York or Park City Utah you might grow up doing it but for the
most part nobody grows up bobsledding. So I grew up playing a lot of different sports softball, basketball,l track, soccer, you
name it I played it. I really love softball and I went to college played softball. Played professionally with the intention of going
to the Olympics. And I did everything I could but have an Olympic tryout and had the absolute worst tryout in the history of
tryouts.
Laura:
[00:01:45] Oh no.
Elana:
It was really bad like swinging up balls over my head. It was horrendous. And then softball sticking out of the game. So I
thought my Olympic dream was over but I still had it. So I was like well what sports can I try. And it was at that point that my
parents actually saw Boston on TV and were like why not try this one? they're looking for a woman. And I was like OK sure
why not. And I just google it emailed the coach and got invited to a tryout.
Laura:
[00:02:12] Oh my gosh I love it. You just google that right? Ey! let's give it a whirl!
Elana:
[00:02:16] Yeah. I have no idea what I would have done if I was pre-google. You know I couldn’t have found it.
Laura:
Google saves the day! I love it. Oh, that's insane. And so I mean it was like what? Less than three years from when you started
to when you were standing on the podium at the Olympics right?
Elana:
[00:02:33] Yeah it was crazy. That was a little bit of a whirlwind. I never would have imagined that. I knew I had a shot to
make an Olympic team but that was all I thought. I didn’t have intentions of medals.
Laura:
[00:02:46] Oh man that's so great. So what was making that first Olympics in 2010 like? I mean was it just a dream but just in

a different sport? Or I mean was it just surreal? Describe that to us.
Elana:
[00:02:57] It was absolutely a dream. I mean the first thing is for bobsled for women's bobsled. We have 2 men is our
traditional Olympic event and there's 2 of us in the sled. So I was in the back and I was a brakeman and now I'm the pilot. The
brakeman position is largely dependent on a selection committee. So it's a group of people who select you to be on the team.
Whereas the pilot the role I'm in now you actually raced races and earn points and you make the team based off of your
performance. So brakeman, it's a much more nerve-racking position. So all the way up until like 2 weeks before the Olympics
when the team is actually announced. You're battling it out and you're sweating you're nervous as a brakeman because you
have no idea what this committee is going to select. And fortunately, I was selected so that moment was just the most
incredible. Because you know it was. Truly I wasn't sure what was going to happen. And at that moment when they named me,
it was like oh my gosh this is what I've been working for my entire life. And actually, at that moment I actually could relax a
little because I feel like I can go and enjoy these Olympics. I made the team. And that seemed a lot harder than actually
competing at the Olympics.
Laura:
[00:04:06] I feel like that too. Our Olympic tryouts on diving are sometimes more intense than being at the Olympics. Because
if you don't make the Olympic team you can't try and achieve your dreams. You know that home making the team part that's so
critical.
Elana:
[00:04:18] Yeah. Yeah. US is tough for that too. So.
Laura:
[00:04:22] Oh yeah for sure. Now at the 2013 world championships, you won a silver medal and as exciting as that is
something else happened on that award stand that I'm willing to bet was maybe even a little more exciting than the medal. Can
you tell us about that?
Elana:
[00:04:36] Yes it was one of the most exciting days of my life. So funny enough I had been dating my now husband for two
years at the time and use a bobsledder too. And we had had the conversation. I thought he was going to propose to me at
Christmas. So I was a little disappointed with it. And we had the conversation I was like absolutely do not propose to me at
World Championships. I want championships to be about worlds. I want our proposal to be about that because we had talked
about getting married. But lo and behold doesn't listen to me and propose to me while I was on the medal stand. But actually
it's one of the coolest moments of my life and I'm so glad he did it. And now we have footage and now we have like all these
photos from around the world of people who are covering the event. Because you just got down on one knee got some roses for
me. Which end up because it was so cold and save from Switzerland. This rose is actually frozen. Which is kind of funny? My
hands were so swollen from racing. The ring did not fit but still that the proposal was changed so much better than any real
championship medal could ever be.
Laura:
[00:05:46] Oh that's so epic. I love it that all the photographers are there. Everybody covered it. That's so cool. It's a good thing
he didn't listen to you that one time. Right?
Elana:
[00:05:54] Yeah that one time.
Laura:
[00:05:55] you let him sneak by. Well, so how was going into the Sochi Games in 2014 different from your first Olympic
experience?

Elana:
[00:06:04] It was very different because my first Olympic experience I went in just happy to be there. You know you just oh
everything's the most wonderful thing possible. But in Sochi I actually went in with the intention of winning a gold medal. And
that was where everything was focused on. And I felt like we had a great team in place. And I felt like my driving and my
understanding of that particular track in Sochi was in a place where we could actually go to the gold medal. So that was all the
focus. And as some part, I think we actually lost a little bit of the fun during that experience. It came about the gold medal and
I think that's actually why we didn’t end up with the gold medal because that's all the focus was on.
Laura:
[00:06:45] Wow. So I guess. I mean do you guys still got a silver but was that disappointing then because you were so focused
on the gold?
Elana:
[00:06:53] It was a little disappointing because we were leading in the race for 3 heats and.
Laura:
[00:06:58] You did 4 right?
Elana:
[00:07:00] Yep yep we did four heats. And then it's total combined time. And so I was in a really good position after the first
three heats. I’m still leading the race by over a 10th of a second at least. Which is a pretty large margin bobsled to start off
with. And then I made a mental mistake and ended up making a pretty costly mistake in its curve at the top of the track. And
that cost us a good amount of time. Which ended up costing us the gold medal essentially. And I think because I put the
pressure on myself and because I had actually questioned myself whether or not I could do it. You know that's what eventually
cost us. And because I was so focused on that gold medal and because we were so close it really changed how I looked at that
race.
Laura:
[00:07:46] Oh wow. So how did you feel after that? Like walking out the games like after that?
Elana:
[00:07:51] Oh I was pretty devastated. And you know I feel like you still win silver medal. You know it's still a huge
accomplishment. At the same time and knowing that I could have done better. That's the hardest thing to deal with. Four years
later the same result but a totally different experience. So after that Olympics you know I knew I could do better I could be a
better driver I could be a better athlete at that point. And that's why I felt like I'd let myself down and my team down. So I
knew I had to make changes going into the next quad.
Laura:
[00:08:25] That's cool. And you and Nic tied the knot shortly after Sochi right?
Elana:
[00:08:29] Yes.
Laura:
[00:08:29] so was the wedding planning distracting at all going into that games? Or was it you were able to separate and
compartmentalize?
Elana:
[00:08:35] It's actually you know I wouldn't necessarily recommend this but it actually gives you something else to focus on. I

feel like as athletes sometimes we get so caught up in what we're doing. And live in these little bubbles of you know you got to
do every single thing in my sport. We're trying to fight for every hundred. So what that comes down to is what you eat, how
much you're sleeping, what exact time you're doing your workouts, and you spend so much time in that focus. It's sometimes
nice to have things outside to focus on. And the wedding planning was kind of in that regard. And I didn't really know what I
was doing. My mom helps me fit a lot of it. She called me up one day she's like so what color do you want for your wedding? I
said pink and she's like OK what shade of pink? I was like there are different shades of pink? What are you talking about? I
don't know pink shades. It is a good distraction in some regards.
Laura:
[00:09:26] It's awesome. I love you're like laid back attitude. That's great. Okay, so 2015 was another huge year for you where
you made history. You became the first woman to earn a spot on the U.S. national team competing with the men as a 4 man
bobsled pilot. You went on to become the first woman to win a medal in international competition in a men's event. And if
that's not enough you also won the 2015 World Championships in the women's two main event the first woman in history to do
so. I mean what? How are you doing these things? And what separates you from everyone else?
Elana:
[00:10:03] I don’t know. Grace God that's all I could say. Fortunately, you know I've got really good people around me my
husband being one of them. And that was the biggest thing is when I wanted to take on 4 men in traditionally women's bobs
but it's just been too personal. We've actually been banned from driving for man sleds for most of history all the way from
1939 to 2014. Women were actually banned from driving for men sleds you know. Because I don't know it'll hurt our ovaries
or something like that. So we finally got the right to drive sleds and I really wanted to take it on. But it was something I when I
initially went to take it on you know I couldn't get anyone to get behind me in the sled. Couldn't get a brakeman and I was
having a lot of a hard time really making this happen. And my husband being a bobsledder volunteered to be the first one in
my sled. And then, fortunately, I was able to get other guys to join him really join him join me to join him after.
[00:11:02] So like I said I've been fortunate to have his support and the support of other people around me to really do some
incredible things and have some incredible experiences. And in that season, in particular, it was not only my husband but my
coaching staff as well to try and work together to develop a plan. Allow me to do both 2 man and 4 man races and still compete
at a high level. So it took a team literally in order to be able to accomplish those things.
Laura:
[00:11:29] That's so cool. And that kind of leads in really well because I was gonna ask you. What's it like having a husband
that's also an elite level bobsledder?
Elana:
[00:11:38] Most of the time is pretty awesome. He understands me better than I understand myself and he knows what I need
before I know I need it. And it's just great having him there with me and having him to help out with whatever I need at the
Olympics this year. There's no chance I would have won a silver medal without him. So he's the instrumental part of my team.
At the same time I want him to win more than I want myself to win. So it is very I can imagine me because you have children
so maybe it's like that way for having had kids. You get so nervous when they're competing and just it's hard for me to actually
watch. And like not want to do something but there's nothing you do. You just did the sidelines and just hope and pray because
you can't do anything. That is the most nerve-racking thing I think ever.
Laura:
[00:12:32] Well I heard I read somewhere that you guys try to minimize your shop talk at home no. Like at home you say it's
the B word or something. Isn't there some like rule about it? What’s the rule?
Elana:
[00:12:43] We have to ask permission to talk about the B-word. Just because we really want to make sure you know this day
and age there are enough distractions out there. And we want to make sure that our marriage is secure and we're really engaged

with each other. So we want to make sure we're not sitting at home talking about bobsled all day. Because at one point we're
not going to be bobsledder anymore. We're not going to be able to do this anymore. And it's important that we don't spend
however many years you've got only focus on the bobsled. And what would we talk about in our marriage later? We're just
going to sit around and tell all bobsled sort of stuff? It is important to develop ourselves outside of sport.
Laura:
[00:13:21] Oh that's great! I love it. And you did mention that your husband got in with you to encourage others to get in the
sled with you. But you also got to compete with him didn't you?
Elana:
[00:13:30] Yes. Yep.
Laura:
[00:13:31] Okay. So were you as nervous for him when he was in your sled? Or are you not as nervous then because you were
driving?
Elana:
[00:13:37] No I was less nervous because I was driving. I had control. So I could actually do something about it. So actually
that was the most fun stories. But with other drivers like I’m a nervous wreck.
Laura:
[00:13:49] I love it. You guys work well together it's perfect.
[00:13:52] I'll continue my conversation with Elana in just a minute but first I want to tell you more about what we do here at
Hope Sports. At Hope Sports, we know that you want to be the best athlete that you can be in order to do that. You train hard
and dedicate yourself to performing at your peak. But sometimes it can feel monotonous. Every day as a similar routine and
when you win well no victory feels as good as a loss feels bad. It doesn't have to be this way. We believe athletes can compete
at their full potential and reach their dreams while feeling lasting satisfaction from their accomplishments. We understand what
it's like when you've dedicated your life to something. That you feel like you're never living up to people's expectations and
you don't feel satisfied with your achievements. Hundreds of athletes have told us that they've discovered how to compete at
their best while finding lasting fulfillment in their achievements. During our interactive international service trips. Our next
trip is coming up June 7th through 10th and Rosarito Mexico and we want you to be there. It's so easy to get involved. Just go
to HopeSports.org sign up for the June 7th through the 10th home build and build hope for a family. And win like never before.
So sign up today. It could be the key you need to find success in your career.
[00:15:09] And now back to the last half of my conversation with Elana. Now you mentioned getting really nervous when he
goes and he was an alternate on the 2018 men's Olympic bobsled team. And you made your third Olympic team. I'm guessing
there was a huge mix of emotions there. Can you kind of walk us through that?
Elana:
[00:15:26] Yeah. So actually most people I feel like come off the Olympics and are pretty disappointed to be named in an
alternate spot. But you know my husband is one of the most positive people you would ever meet. And as soon as he was
named to the alternate sport yes he was disappointed that he wouldn't be racing but same time our alternates travel with us.
They stay right if they're not in the village they stay right outside the village. There are training sessions every day. They have
full access to the village. So they're there with us and they're an integral part of the team. So for him as soon as they named the
alternate selection he spent maybe a minute being bombed and then he just took it. What do I need to do to help this team win a
medal? And not only did he do that to the men's team but he also did that for me as well. As is what is my role now and how
am I going to support my wife in trying to win this medal. So before that Olympics, I actually ended up tearing my Achilles.
So he was an instrumental part of me being able to even compete. And he'd be an alternate being able to be there every single
day helped me through that was huge.

Laura:
[00:16:36] When did you tear it?
Elana:
[00:16:38] We had a training camp a week before the Games. We were at opening ceremonies and I was doing an uphill Sprint
and came down wrong on it. And immediately felt like a shot in the leg. It was not great.
Laura:
[00:16:41] Oh my goodness.
[00:16:52] OK. Yeah. So how did you go on to be OK enough to do it at the Olympics? I mean had a tear that's pretty
significant. That's tough.
Elana:
[00:17:03] Yes. So it was a partial tear. Luckily it wasn't a full rupture. And then at that point, we had MRI and everything and
we realized you know this is pretty bad. But if I could manage the pain there's a chance I might do some worse damage. I
definitely did. But the main thing was dealing with the pain and figuring out creative ways to train as much as possible. But
also train as little as possible to get to the actual races. And so it was even to the point where I had medical treatments every
single day multiple times a day. I couldn't walk in opening ceremonies. We literally had to limit my walking as much as
possible. I actually rolled up to the games in a wheelchair. Came off the plane and was going through Pyeongchang in a
wheelchair for a little bit. Which is pretty interesting. And then my husband recrafted my shoes to make it more comfortable.
To allow me to get his sled. And we just really got creative with our training.
Laura:
[00:18:04] Wow! That's impressive. I mean I know most athletes are at some level of injury going in but to have a significant
tear like that. That's something else. I mean you are battling team Germany and Pyeongchang right over for heats of
competition back and forth and you just miss out on the Gold Medal by seven hundreds of a second. But you said this is totally
different from Sochi. So what was that experience like?
Elana:
[00:18:27] Yeah. Going in with the Achilles I knew we were at a significant disadvantage I knew that would hurt us
significantly. And also we're having some equipment issues as well so I knew the cards were against us. So I just went in and
tried to drive the four best heats of my life and I really felt like I'd put together a race that could be proud of. And that's why
regardless of whether or not we had won a medal I would be happy with that race because we really went out there and put on
a show me and my brakeman Lauren Gibbs and I think we put on a great performance. And at the end of the day, I think that's
where my career's kind of shifted. It started off as all about me and what's going on and inside my head and my hands and
really wanting to win all this hardware. But it became more about the performance and going out there and putting our show. I
mean that's what people want to see you know working out there to perform in front of you at the Olympics millions of people.
They want to see a show. They want to see a close race 700th of a second they don't want to see somebody winning by half a
second. So if I can give people a good entertaining show that's what I'm out there to do.
Laura:
[00:19:33] I love how you connected that to like you understand the change and just having that different attitude. Like I'm just
going to put on my best song and be happy with what I can do and just getting the same result. Like you said you're walking
away with a totally different feeling and emotion and memories from it. I mean that's pretty awesome. I think that's a great
takeaway for all of us listening to your story here. But do have to back up because right before Pyeongchang didn’t you try a
different sport randomly? What? What? Like how did that happen? And why did that happen?
Elana:
[00:20:08] Yes. So during the summers in bobsled you can train anywhere in the world. There's no ice so we're just doing

running and lifting. So right before Sochi I was into a Vista California at the Olympic Training Center out there where the U.S.
rugby team trains. And the rugby coach saw me and of course, I'm pretty much rugby player size and my dad is running back
to the NFL. So he saw me as like Hey! Why don't you come over here and throw this rugby ball around and come on in and
practice with us? And I was like you know what I'm kind of busy right now not to of risks. But afterward you know I came
home from Sochi I was pretty disappointed and I just wanted to be away from bobsled for a little bit. And rugby gave me a
perfect outlet.
[00:20:51] So I was fortunate enough you know rugby looks for a lot of crossover athletes. So I was fortunate enough to go
right with the U.S. team and start training with them and go to two tournaments with them. Which was a really cool experience
and really helped me get over I guess your “Post-Olympic depression that you kind of suffer”. Especially when you're really
disappointed with a performance like that you know. I was inundated with a group of girls who were so energetic about the
sport rugby. Which at that time was just going Olympic and they were just trying to navigate this Olympic pathway and
everything. And the girls were so welcoming and everything. It was a nice breath of fresh air right after those games.
Laura:
[00:21:31] That's cool. Be careful because we just talked to
Alev Kelter
a few weeks ago and that's how she got sucked right
in. So we might be needing to watch for you in the next Summer Games but I think I'm hearing.
Elana:
[00:21:41] Good now! Me and Alev actually came in at the same time. So she's a joy. She's awesome person.
Laura:
[00:21:48] Yeah. She is she is fantastic! Now I have to ask this because I don't know much about the bobsled process and how
you get your teammates. Cause I know each Olympic Games you've had a different teammate. And you said the pilot is based
off of like points and results and how you're doing. But the brakeman is always selected so is that hard for you? Are you
having to constantly work with different people throughout the season then? Like how does that dynamic work? So
complicated.
Elana:
[00:22:14] Yes. Yeah. They do constantly rotate throughout the season. They used to be in bobsled that the pilots used to
choose their brakeman. But in order to make sure they had the most competitive sleds possible they changed it to a selection
committee. It's six people coaches and some of the upper-level executives who sit down and decide the brakeman for each sled.
And they look at numbers they look at physical testing numbers. They look at results of races over the season and how they've
done. And really try and dig into the numbers and choose the best brakeman for each sled. So I have a little bit of input but
usually. It doesn't really it goes with whatever they see best. And as a pilot, you kinda just have to trust that they know what's
best for your sled. Because this pilot I feel likes you can have blind spots. You could feel more comfortable with one person or
another. But if they see something that's gonna make you faster down the hill then you have to trust them. So it's nerve-
wracking for the brakeman to know. And in the past 2 Olympics 3 Olympics, I think the difference between making and not
making the team for brakeman over all the data we had is like 200th of the second. So it's very narrow margins and it's very it's
a crushing decision. But fortunately, I don't have to make it.
Laura:
[00:23:34] That's so tough. Well OK, so your life is so intertwined in your sport. I mean when you train you earn a living.
You're sitting on the boards of directors. You're getting proposed to at an event. You're training with and competing with your
husband. Like all of these things with bobsled. Like how do you separate Elana and your worth as a person from your
performance and your results as an athlete?
Elana:
[00:23:54] Yeah. I think part of it is my faith. Part of it is staying up with my faith and realizing that there's more to bobsled
than you know. God gave me a gift to be a bobsledder but that's not the only thing I'm going to do. And that's the only thing

I've done. So there's much more I have to accomplish and in that regard. My father being a professional athlete always made
sure that we had other interests because you never know when it's going to end. I hope that I get the chance to choose when I
retire. But at the end of the day, you don't know. So we've seen with plenty of athletes. They have to retire before they would
like to so I have to be prepared. I've always managed to work or volunteer or do whatever I can outside my sport. To make sure
I don't get too intimidated in the day and day bobsledding and that's my only life. Because at some point it's gonna end and I
need to be prepared for that.
Laura:
[00:24:48] So wise. I love it. Now last year at George Washington University honored you with an honorary doctorate degree.
And now you're the current president of the Women's Sports Foundation. I mean does this kind of all just seem surreal? Or
These things you were hoping for and getting for one day like Long long ago? How is life taken this turn for you?
Elana:
[00:25:09] It is very surreal. I always wanted a doctorate but I thought I actually have to go to school. And so.
Laura:
[00:25:15] Most people do.
Elana:
[00:25:16] Yeah. You know. I so might do that. That's in the cards. But as far as the Women's Sports Foundation and being the
president of that it's. Every day it's such an honor to be at the helm of that organization. It's for me it's an organization that's
paid such a powerful role in my life. As far as even just giving me some of the basics I needed to be able to become an elite
level Bobsledder. So whether it's in the form of grants or whether it was in the form of support you know. Being able to go to
events and meet the most incredible female athletes in the world and being able to sit down and pick their brains. And be how
are you successful? How are you able to do this? You know it's just been such an incredible organization towards me. So to be
able to be in this position it's such an honor and a privilege. Like I do have to pinch myself because you know to be able to
impact girls and women in sports it's more than I could ever ask for.
Laura:
[00:26:12] So cool. What are some of the coolest things you've done since being president?
Elana:
[00:26:16] The coolest things by far are the Athlete Ambassador events. The events we put on. We have Athlete Ambassador
events around the country and if anybody's interested listeners interested we're always looking for athlete ambassadors. And
basically, we would run events at people's hometown. And we'd have athletes at those events Women's Sports Foundation
athletes. And so those events have been the most incredible events I get to. Because it's girls from a variety of backgrounds
whether different socioeconomic status different racial status it doesn't matter. All different backgrounds and we're working
with them in one common task and that's learning a sport. And so to be able to see the smiles on their faces to be able to see
100 kids run up to Billie Jean King you know. Billie Jean King is 75 years old and you've got 6year olds running up to her
asking for the autograph. And being a part of that it's the coolest thing I could ever imagine. And it's just being surrounded by
kids who are so enthusiastic just to be able to get out and play a sport. Like with them it's not about winning Olympic medals at
that point. It's just getting out there and playing. It's really really incredible experience.
Laura:
[00:27:27] I love it. That's so awesome. Now you fully intend to return to the Winter Olympic Games in Beijing in 2022 right?
Yeah? Once again going for gold? How's the training going right now.
Elana:
[00:27:37] Yeah. So actually on that regard you know I'm learning that I do I am getting older I have to train differently. This
year itself coming off the Achilles injury I've really struggled to be healthy whether it's you know illnesses or injuries itself. I

tend to think I'm still 22 but I'm realizing this year that I'm not. So we have to learn how to train differently and adapt things.
And that's really been the story of this season is struggling through that and finding out what our new limits are and defining
what that is. So I feel like we're starting to get a handle on it and go to the next three years. We're really going to have a plan so
I can get to Beijing 2022 as healthy as possible and still competitively.
Laura:
[00:28:31] I love it. So are you gonna take up another sport for cross training in between?
Elana:
[00:28:35] Absolutely.
Laura:
[00:28:37] You are totally welcome in the pool with me I could use a synchro partner. Just gonna throw that out there. You're
always welcome.
Elana:
[00:28:43] I could belly sucks so.
Laura:
[00:28:45] I don't want to do that from 10 meters. That's not going to feel good.
Elana:
[00:28:49] Ahmm you know. I'll do different types of training than I've done. A little bit more yoga a little bit more a lot less
pounding and a lot less time in the weight room. So it'll be a little bit different but I actually was thinking about this like about
a week ago. And I sat down with my husband was like you know what I think I'm done with sports. Like I'm at the point in
time where I'm just if I haven't played before we're not picking it up. Because in bobsled a lot of people do crazy ideas where
they're going to try all these other sports because they tried bobsled and it worked so why not try something else. I was like No
I'm done. You know I wouldn't mind throwing a softball around again. But as far as new sports nah were good.
Laura:
[00:29:34] Well, you are still always welcome at the pool. So I'm just keeping that offer on the table. So where can we follow
you online to keep in being inspired and encouraged by you and to cheer you on toward Beijing?
Elana:
[00:29:46] So my Instagram handle is @elanameyerstaylor my Twitter handle is @eamslider24 and I'm on Facebook. But as
always you can always go to womenssportsfoundation.org. Find more about me and the organization and all the work we're
doing.
Laura:
[00:30:04] Awesome Elana! Thank you so much for coming on our podcast and sharing your incredible story and just inspiring
all of us.
Elana:
[00:30:10] Oh, Thank you. Please talking to you.
Laura:
[00:30:15] Isn't she incredible? I feel like so many can relate to her story. Sometimes there are experiences like her tryouts that
just don't go as we hope or plan and it feels like it derails our entire lives. But she was able to step into something new without
having to abandon her dreams entirely. They just took shape in a different way. I hope that you're encouraged today that no
matter if you're an athlete trying to make it to the top or an entrepreneur or a person with a big vision for your future. Your

dreams are still attainable even if it's not the way that you originally envisioned it. And if you want support in ways that you
can grow as a competitor and overcome obstacles just like Elana did? Head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance to
grab my free guide. Five things that you can do today to become a more confident competitor. Again that's
LauraWilkinson.com/performance. Be sure to tune in next week as we have another incredible woman a
Alev Kelter
who plays
for USA women's rugby. On behalf of Hope Sports, I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for tuning in and have a great week.
This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and access the complete
archives please visit HopeSports.org

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About This Episode

David Colturi spent his childhood packing in as many sports as possible. From sunup to sundown he was outside bouncing between basketball, cross country, golf, flag football, or baseball. Because of his smaller size, he gradually moved away from impact sports and really focused on diving, training year round by age eleven. Despite what people assume, David wasn’t necessarily a dare devil or completely free from a fear of heights. In fact, diving didn’t even necessarily come easily to him. He learned the 7m platform at a camp, but when he advanced to the 10m platform for the first time, he landed smacked on his back. “It’s a combination of bravery and having a couple of screws loose,” says David. Though he had his work cut out for him, his enjoyment came from pushing himself, overcoming challenges, and conquering his fears alongside his teammates and coaches.

He continued his diving career at Purdue University in a season when the coach, Adam Soldati, had recruited an impressive string of divers at the school. Not only was Colturi receiving top level athletic instruction, but also intentional emotional and relational support. “He truly wants every athlete to reach their highest potential inside the water and out,” says David of Adam. This holistic approach to coaching proved very successful as Colturi was among the five male divers from Purdue that made it to the NCAA finals - an unprecedented number from a single university. Unfortunately, David’s diving career in college came to an abrupt halt after his junior year, as troubles outside of the pool caught up with him and he was released from the diving team. At a crossroads, he had to decide whether to focus on his Pre-Med studies or transfer to another school to continue diving. In the end, he decided to load up on credits, finish undergrad, and pursue a career in medicine - more or less retiring from diving.  

But in a strange turn of events he was invited to Indiana Beach - a vintage amusement park in the middle of rural Indiana with roots dating back to the 1920’s. Build on a lake, the park boasts a water stunt show that includes boats, skies, and also high diving. Resembling circus performing, David dove from 10-20 meter perches made from 2x4’s, taught himself new tricks without a training facility, and even lit himself on fire for the finale. After two summers at Indiana Beach, Colturi tested his abilities at the 27m height of professional cliff diving. After only two small invitational competitions, he entered an International Cliff Diving Competition in Australia and recalls actually having to learn dives in warmups because he didn’t yet have a full repertoire. Call it beginners luck or nerves, but he won the competition, stood atop the podium, and secured himself a spot in the Red Bull International Cliff Diving Circuit for the following year.

The learning curve was steep, however. Cliff divers go from 0 mph to 60 mph in only three seconds, and decelerate from 60-0 mph in just one second - in only 13 feet of water. Competitors can’t even warm up all of their dives or train from competition height because of the sheer impact that it has on their bodies. Without training facilities, coaches, or guidelines, athletes have to experiment with optimal ways to learn new dives that reduced both wear and tear on their bodies and risk of injury. “When I tell people that I cliff dive, their first two comments are always ‘Does it hurt your feet?’ and ‘Oh, your poor mother..’, both of which are true,” jokes Colturi. The sport obviously carries with it extreme risks. “The margin of error is incredibly small,” says David. Divers can walk away from a 10 meter platform bumble and manage to shake it off, but from 27 meters injuries can be devastating or even fatal. There is always a safety team in the water ready to help divers if they become incapable of swimming due to injury on a dive. It’s not that they compete without fear, however. David admits to regularly being terrified and white knuckled climbing up to the platform. Perhaps the risk of it all unites the community, though. Without a wide network of coaches and trainers, cliff divers help one another, give each other pointers, and share the emotional burden of the experience.

Very unlike diving in aquatic facilities in front of hushed spectators perched on the edges of their seats, cliff diving takes place in a wide variety of places in front of fans on yachts, kayaks, and rafts partying and cheering. Locations can range from remote islands to urban centers. David has dived from the Boston Art Museum, the Copenhagen Opera House, the Dubai Arena, and from a whole range of cliffs and scenic outlooks. His personal favorite was his tour of Thailand in 2014, which included famous locations that had been captured in movies.

Coming off of his amateur win in Australia, David recalls being humbled by his first competition of the circuit in France. Backdropped by the Mediterranean and emboldened by adrenaline, he threw his first dive far too hard and landed on his backside. The impact tore the rear of his suit, bruised him badly, and waves sent him into the rocks on the way out of the water. Sore and embarrassed, he headed back up to the platform realizing that he “apparently did not have it all figured out.” Eventually he got into a groove with training, competing, and traveling and added several first place finishes to his resume.

But his streak of successes came to a screeching halt in the summer of 2018. Gearing up to compete in Lucerne, Switzerland, Colturi was filming a “teaser video” for the Red Bull series that aimed to capture a dive in front of a place of historic significance, as a way to attract attention for the upcoming competition. The dive was to be performed in front of the Tell’s Chapel on the shore of Lake Lucene. Without a natural platform to dive from, the team decided to enlist renowned Swiss paraglider Christian Maurer to fly David over the water for the stunt. With only two practice paragliding attempts, Colturi strapped himself to Maurer and they launched over the water with only a 2x4 secured with hiking rope as his platform. The changing winds, uncooperative boats, and wobbly perch created a situation in which it was hard to determine the actual height to gauge which type of dive to do. In the first attempt they were far too low and both Colturi and Maurer crashed. But they brushed it off and climbed back up to the launch point for another attempt. Unfortunately the next attempt was from far too high of a point and David landed on his side. Thinking he just had the wind knocked out of him, he took some Advil and went for two more attempts before they wrapped up the project with a successful take. As the day went on, however, his appearance and demeanor continued to go downhill. Dizzy and unstable, he was taken to the hospital in the evening where doctors could hardly believe how he sustained the injury, as it’s not every day that people attempt to dive from a paraglider nearly 100 feet in the air. He barely made it out of the CT scan before doctors where scrubbing up for emergency surgery, rushing him into the operating room to remove his spleen which had been completely split in half on impact. By the time they got him into surgery more than half of his blood supply had pooled into his abdomen; if he had waited another twenty or thirty minutes, the situation would likely have been fatal.

Colturi spent a week in the hospital before heading home for a long recovery. Six months later he was finally cleared to start training again and has his first official competition in April of 2019. According to him, he probably won’t be fully over the whole saga until he competes again and gets a few successful dives under his belt. But the experience has taught him a lot about his priorities and what he considers a victory. “Being lucky to be alive has made me really appreciate what I have,” he shares. The injury made him come to terms with the fact that he will not cliff dive forever and as he says, “I still need to be David on the other side of this.” Despite the trauma and fear from his accident, he plans to continue diving and has big dreams for the expansion of cliff diving as a sport. In addition to the Red Bull circuit, Colturi is a founding member of USA Cliff Diving and hopes to develop training camps, national tours, and events to draw fans and athletes to the sport while enriching the community of athletes that already exist. “Success - no matter how you define it - is usually just a fleeting moment,” he says. He has proven time and time again that he is willing to take big risks, and, more than ever before, he’s investing those efforts into improving the sport, supporting up and coming athletes, and seeing the sport as a whole become both established and recognized.

To follow more of David’s incredible journey, be sure to check him out on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. In addition, learn more about USA Cliff Diving and the Red Bull Cliff Diving and check out some amazing videos on YouTube.

 

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About This Episode

There is some debate about when it was discovered that Lauryn Williams was fast. Her father claims that it was when she spent an entire day at the science center in Pittsburg racing a hologram of the legendary Olympic gold medalist Florence Joyner until she was actually able to beat it. For her mother, it was when she could beat their family dog home after playing outside. Either way, they knew that she could run -- fast. But Lauryn didn’t always have aspirations of being a track & field athlete. She participated in karate, gymnastics, softball, basketball, and ballroom dancing throughout her childhood. While focusing on academic college scholarships during her senior year of high school, she stumbled upon athletic scholarships and thought that she had a good shot of snagging one. She ended up attending the University of Miami, confiding, “if I had to run for college funding, I might as well do it where the weather was nice!” Though her decision may have hinged more on climate than programming, she recalls being incredibly well cared for, honored, and championed as an athlete at the school. “The coaching staff and athletic department always did what was in my best interest as a person, in addition to an athlete,” she says.

At 20 years old, she ran the second fastest time in the world for the 100 meters, was the fastest American women, and won the NCAA championships. Although, being a professional athlete wasn’t anywhere on her radar at the time, her success catapulted her into the Olympic Trials and into the pressure to win big for her country. Her hometown did fundraisers to get her parents to Athens and it was as if the entire world watched her step up to the line of the 100 meter race. She ran a great race and was proud to walk away from that event with a silver medal. It wasn’t time to relax yet, however, as the 4x100 meter relay was only days away. The four women on the team were several of the fastest in the world and together, they easily had a shot at not only a gold medal, but a world record. In the end, perhaps it was division in their training or a lack of chemistry or negativity that chipped away at their confidence, but whatever the reason, the baton failed to be passed inside of the allotted zone and the team was disqualified.

“I felt like I not only left my team down, but I let the whole country down,” says Lauryn of the race. Set to receive the baton from Marion Jones, Lauryn was personally a part of the botched handoff and the headlines, reporters, and fans didn’t let her forget it. “It was the first time that I was subjected to the anger and hatred of others. And it went far beyond just the performance,” she recalls. After repeatedly seeing her name alongside words such as “failure” and “let-down”, she had to dig herself out of the pit of self-doubt and insecurity; she had to not internalize what everyone was saying about her. With the support of her family and close community, she says that she arrived at the mindset that “it’s about who I believe I am.”

Putting the Olympics behind her, she returned to training and competing professionally. An opportunity for redemption presented itself at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing where she qualified to run the 100 meter individual event as well as the 4x100 meter relay. She took fourth place in the individual race behind three women from Jamaica and had to bounce back from that disappointment to head into the relay. But the nightmare repeated itself for the American women. The baton was again dropped during the transfer; once more the team headed home empty handed, devastated, and in the merciless hands of the media. “I just wanted to hit the rewind button,” says Lauryn. It seemed that one mistake was forgivable, but definitely not two. Despite her rich faith and strong friends and teammates, Lauryn struggled to maintain her confidence.

Shortly after those 2008 Olympic games, her father passed away. Still reeling from the disappointment of the games, her pain was only worsened by not having one of her biggest encouragers on the sideline. The grief didn’t fully hit her until May of the following year when, out of instinct, she picked up her phone and called her dad. As the phone rang and rang, it finally dawned on her that he was gone and she could never again be comforted by his counsel or encouraged by his voice.

“I was faced with questions about what life was really about and why I was running circles around a track,” says Lauryn. She had equated her identity, success, and influence with her speed, but losing her father brought her face to face with deep doubts about her purpose. She took 2010 off from track to find out who she was without running, to discover the way she contributed to society and community when she isn’t simply an athlete. “During that year I spent a lot of time talking to people about how they got to where they were,” explains Lauryn. She was on a mission to discover how the everyday person navigated they journey, and she ascertained that there was no such thing as a linear path. “You get to write your story. You get to decide who you are,” she says. She learned that the journey towards purpose is one of evolution, not destination or definition. In various seasons elements are added into our lives, just as others fall away. She found peace in the realization that she wouldn’t be an elite sprinter forever, but also that she wasn’t done yet.

She returned to competition in 2012 with an entirely different mindset. “I felt more grateful to those who were around me,” Lauryn recalls. Her eyes had been opened to the specific journeys and purpose of her coach, trainers, nutritionist, and even the volunteers at every event. “So many people invested their time in my success,” says Lauryn. And she started taking time to thank them. Although she didn’t qualify for the individual event in London, they still thought highly enough of her that she was placed on the 4x100 meter relay team despite her perceived failures in 2004 and 2008. Most of the team was brand new and her maturity, experience, and composure grounded the team. Because of her negative experiences and mistakes, she was able to emphasize the importance of honesty, communication, and trust within the relay team; things that she knew mattered just as much as speed. Lauryn got to be a part of the semi-final race that secured the American team a spot in the finals where the women went on to break a 27 year old world record, and finally win the gold medal. It took time, however, for Lauryn to fully accept the medal. Although she was a part of getting the team to the final, she didn’t run in the actual race and initially felt quite fraudulent owning that victory. But with time, she matured enough to see the intangible effects that she had on the team that led to generating the kind of atmosphere from which world class teams are born.

After her final season of running came to a close, she ran into Olympic hurdler Lolo Jones at an airport and they talked a bit about the bobsled career that Lolo pursued after retiring from track. One month later, Lauryn found herself at the Olympic trials for bobsled. It was a steep learning curve over the next six months, but of that time she says, “I realized that I had nothing left to lose, and only things to gain.” She spent several months training with various partners in a round robin style and the final pairings wouldn’t be decided until ten days before the event. Thanks to her experience in 2012, she knew that her contribution wasn’t limited to tangible influence. No matter the outcome, she wanted Team USA to send the best six competitors to Sochi even if that put her in a supporting role. A week and a half before the event she was paired with Elana Meyers Taylor and the two went on to win silver in the bobsled final. “The best part was that I just never saw the opportunity coming,” says Lauryn. Participating and winning in a collaborative event was both gratifying and redeeming. In addition to winning a medal, Lauryn made history as the first American woman--and one of only five athletes ever--to medal in both the summer and winter Olympics.

Satisfied with her athletic career, Lauryn has recently turned her attention to serving athletes in other ways. She started a financial planning business called Worth Winning that aims to help young athletes optimize their finances, set markers beyond competition, and define their values in a concrete way. So many young athletes don’t fit into the typical box for financial planning; they are more tech savvy, on the go, and goal oriented. In addition, she has her own podcast  with guests who discuss their own financial journeys in hopes that listeners can shed any embarrassment or shame in feeling inept at managing money. Her knowledge isn’t limited to the financial sector, though. Her book, The Oval Office, will be releasing this year and is full of information for professional athletes about how to navigate the world of elite sports in a really practical way. From working with agents to wading through endorsement offers to signing with teams, she guides readers through the world that she had to uncover on her own. And, true to her own journey, Lauryn encourages others to write their own story, believe in themselves, and learn to view failures as building blocks for their future. Be sure to following Lauryn on Instagram and Twitter, as well as on her website and podcast.

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 Laura:

[00:00:06] Welcome to the Hope Sports podcast. I'm your host. Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. Each week I have the

privilege of chatting with a different elite athlete about how they navigated their rise in sports where they find their purpose

and how they're contributing in amazing ways to the world today. You're in for a real treat today as Olympian Lauren Williams

is joining us. I can't easily tag a sport alongside her Olympian status because Lauren is actually the first American woman to

win a medal in both the Summer and Winter Olympics. And she's one of only five individuals to ever do so. She race track and

field and three Olympics and just when she thought she was retiring she turned right around and raced bobsled in the Winter

Olympics. But her journey is about so much more than that she has walked through heartbreaking defeats and emerged so

incredibly grateful optimistic and authentic. She's a savvy business owner a compassionate leader and an all-around

inspiration. You are gonna be so glad you tuned in today. Let's dive on it.

[00:01:04] Lauren Williams thank you so much for coming on Hope Sports podcast today.

Lauren:

It is so good to be here. I can't wait to share my story.

Laura:

Well for those listening to that may not know a whole lot about you. Can you kind of walk us through how you got your start in

sports?

Lauren:

[00:01:18] Sure. So it all started way back in the 1980s. Now I'm born and raised between. I'm born in Pittsburgh raised

between Pittsburgh and Detroit and started running track when I was nine years old. And depending on who you ask between

my mother and father you'll get two entirely different stories about how I got my start. My dad will tell you that we were at the

Carnegie Science Center in Pennsylvania and there was a blow Joe hologram. And I do know this story to be true. I remember

the hologram and I remember raising the hologram but I stayed there all day didn't do anything else I didn't see anything else in

the science center. And I did beat the hologram a few times now. Clearly, she could have been set at a world record pace. But.

Laura:

[00:02:03] For you are really impressive 9 year old one to the other.

Lauren:

[00:02:06] right or I was a really impressive 9year girl. But that wasn't quite as fast as I got older. And then my mom tells a

story of me getting home faster than the family German shepherd. And I do also remember going outside and playing with the

dog and you know her kind of calling us when it was this time for us to come in. But whether or not I got home faster than my

dog. You know I'm inclined to believe I did. But.

Laura:

[00:02:31] That you're a racer from the beginning huh?

Lauren:

[00:02:33] Exactly. I always love running. I always love being outside. You know competing and you know it was kind of a

tomboy if you will.

Laura:

[00:02:40] Did you do any other sports or was it always just track and running?

Lauren:

[00:02:44] Everything. In fact, I didn't think that I was gonna be like a star track athlete. It wasn't a goal or aspiration of mine

at all. I did karate and ballroom dancing. I did gymnastics. Softball.

Laura:

[00:02:53] Ballroom dancing.

Lauren:

[00:02:55] I know right.

Laura:

[00:02:56] Wow! Nice.

Lauren:

[00:02:58] I didn't make the volleyball team. I still kind of have a chip on my shoulder about that.

Laura:

[00:03:03] You can't have it all Lauren. Can’t have it all.

Lauren:

[00:03:04] Can’t have it all. That's true. Basketball is the thing I love the most though. And that's what I thought I was going to

do and I wanted to do. But sitting on the bench on senior night in high school my best friend got her. And then finally got to go

in when she got her in the fourth quarter. Let me know that I was probably not going to be a basketball player beyond my high

school days.

Laura:

[00:03:25] Also how did you find herself at the University of Miami?

Lauren:

[00:03:29] Well when I started to get these letters in the mail to ask me you know if I was interested in attending this school or

that school. I got really excited because I didn't know that that was actually an option initially. I was really working hard

toward getting academic scholarship, moneys and keep my grades up. And then I realized there was this thing called athletic

scholarships and I was like oh like this could work. And I'm just sorting through the different options. I decided that if I needed

to go to school and it was gonna be my obligation to run track as a way to kind of pay for my education that I had better do it

in a place that had warm weather so that I'd feel good about going to practice every day and meeting. At 17 that's all the wiser

that I could be it was a warm place, outdoors and I went on my college visit there it was October. And so got a sunburn in

Miami in October and got back to Pennsylvania for school and it was the first frost.

Laura:

[00:04:23] Oh wow.

Lauren:

[00:04:24] And I was like oh like sunburn in October or snow in October.

Laura:

[00:04:30] I think that’s a wise move. Well, you competed for track at Miami. You graduate in 2004 and you were even

inducted into the iron arrow Honor Society of the university's highest honor. Tell us about your college experience.

Lauren:

[00:04:43] It was amazing. There's no place I would rather go to school. There was not a day that I regretted choosing the

University of Miami the way that they looked after me in a family sort of way. We got there and the athletic department was a

small tight-knit family. My coach to this day I can say has always done what was in my best interest. And that you know

always thought about what I needed and what was going to be best for me as a person and in addition to me as an athlete. And

the university as well kind of correct was the word was rallied around me when I started to get some fame and stardom. And

you know made sure that they did everything they could to help me as well. And so I'm just really appreciative for the

opportunity to have gone to that school to have been supported the way that I was. All the way up to the president of the

university. Yeah. It was a really really good opportunity.

Laura:

[00:05:37] Well that's cool. So after you graduated you made it to the 2004 Athens Olympics that was your first Olympic

Games right?

Lauren:

[00:05:44] Mm-hmm.

Laura:

[00:05:44] And you got a silver there and one hundred meters you became one of the darlings of the games. But at that same

games and the 4 by 100 your team was disqualified because of the baton pass. Can you kind of walk us through? I'm sure there

were so many ups and downs to that Olympics not only just because it's your first Olympics too and then all of that like. Walk

us through that.

Lauren:

[00:06:03] Yeah there was a lot. I was it was 2004 I was 20 years old I was now dealing with this idea of becoming a

professional athlete. That was not something I was necessarily on my radar earlier in the year. I was just trying to win the

NCAA title. And you know not only did I win the NCAA’s but I ran the second fastest time in the world. And it was like oh

you're now the fastest American that we have heading into the Olympic trials. So you better get on your big girl bridges and

hop to it because there's sponsorship opportunities and there is a lot to sort through. As a junior in college 20 years old and now

it is being the Olympic year. I get on this Olympic team.

[00:06:43] I had to figure out how to get my family over there. I didn't have any money yet my family didn't have a lot of

money. So there were fundraisers going on and things like that to sort through. My dad got to Athens and got sick. There was

just a lot going on, to say the least. But then in addition to that look at the actual performance. And I think I did a really good

job of kind of bundling my nerves together and performing well earning that silver medal. But then we had to go and get

ourselves. I had to go and get collaborative with the other sprinters and work on this relay and it did not go very well at all.

You're right. And the thing that's really hard about it even in thinking about it and reminiscing about it today is that we were

easily a world record team. If we could have gotten that baton around the track in the way that the potential we had. There's no

doubt about it that we not only would've been gold medalists but Olympic world record holders or world record holders now.

[00:07:45] And yeah just negative chemistry you know the coaches not really paying attention to what we were saying as

athletes. And you know feeling like they knew what was best for us even in the midst of us saying that you know what about

this what about that. All those things and all that negative chemistry came together and we did not get the baton round trip.

Laura:

[00:08:09] How did you. Did you guys get a lot of flak for that?

Lauren:

[00:08:12] A whole lot of flak for that. You know I was receiving the baton from the infamous Marion Jones I was this new

rookie. Even though I had you know they said I just want a medal and you think that that would create some stability or

credibility. It did not seem to create very much at all. And we were the crappy Americans that didn't do their job. And you

know there were all kinds of headlines on failure. And you know how could we screw this up sort of deal and whose fault it

was and lots of blame game. Yeah, it was a really tough time.

Laura:

[00:08:46] Well how did you. How do you handle that? As a 20 year old thinking about going professional now also to your

thrust into the spotlight with a medal and with this failure. Like how did you handle that?

Lauren:

[00:08:59] It was a lot. You're right. Because I got a really good high of earning a medal and not have expected that at all early

in the year. But then I got this really really big low of you let the whole country down. And you let your teammates down. And

I was the actual person that was part of the botched handoff. You know because I score runners so you know three other people

could have done perfectly and one person got it wrong. And you know I could have been on the done perfectly part of that but I

was on the wrong part of that.

[00:09:26] So that was the first time I was subject to the opinions of others and you know just even the anger and hatred that

others have just for us for sport in general. So you know, you stupid girl, how could you and you're an idiot. And you know

things that just went far beyond the actual performance that I think we're very unnecessary. And just negative fans that you

have to deal with. And digging yourself out of the idea that this is not who I am. This does not define me and what those

people are saying about me is not the thing that is most important. It's about who I believe I am you know how I decide to

bounce back from this catastrophe. And the way that I move forward that's going to build me and make me a stronger person.

Laura:

[00:10:16] So those next four years you went pro. I'm guessing at that point you did kind of become professional. You made

another Olympic team in 2008 and again it seems like it was kind of a mixed bag. I mean you got fourth in the individual but

that's you know short of the medals had three Jamaican runners that were in front of you. And then in the relay again like you

were the anchor and there was a mix up in the semifinals. And your teammate dropped the baton and like you had to pick it up

and you guys finished but you got queued. Because you had to run outside of the lane in order to pick up the baton. Like I

found a quote that you had about this that I just thought was so well said that I would love you to talk on. You said it's a pretty

big deal when you're the person that was accountable for the demise of an opportunity. Not only for us to win a gold medal but

to possibly break a world record because we had to really fast teams. Both of those years and I felt very alone at that moment.

Like how. I mean I know you said you've got a fine figure out that this doesn't define you but I mean it happened again. And

like how do you have people speaking into you or you isolated? Like what did it look like walking out those days afterward?

Lauren:

[00:11:21] You know I'm very fortunate to have a really good team around me. And have a really good set of friends to kind of

keep me lifted up in moments like that. But it's definitely really tough even despite my faith and belief to just walk away and

kind of let that roll off your shoulders. You know you work so hard. You want to do well for not just yourself but for those that

you're competing with. You do want to represent your country to the best of your ability. And at that moment you feel like you

feel that all of those things and you just want to hit the rewind button. You're like Why is there not a rewind somewhere.

[00:12:00] But yeah working through it just takes a little bit of time and takes you know sticking to this idea that you know

some negative things are going to happen but these things are something to build on. They're not something to continue to hold

you down or they're not something to kind of wallow in and stay there. So I'd say like yeah do I walk through the valley of the

shadow of death. I always tell people in speeches and things that's like it's walkthrough. It doesn't say like stop and set up camp

there. Doesn't say go hang out in the valley of the shadow.

Laura:

[00:12:34] That's so good.

Lauren:

[00:12:36] So just giving yourself those constant reminders that yeah it stinks. But keep going.

Laura:

[00:12:43] Did you keep going after Beijing? Because I know you finished your masters and then you took a whole year off in

  1. So did you keep training kind of after and then take a break or what how did that play out?

Lauren:

[00:12:53] Yeah. So my dad passed away in 2008 shortly after those games so to add insult to injury. He passed away in that

year and it was just a little bit tough to digest. It was May of the following year 2009 when it really kind of hit me. And I think

you know people grieve differently so often. And you never really know what it's going to mean. Or what it's going to feel like

for you when you lose someone that's very close to you. And you know I was just kind of be-bopping along and pretending as

if nothing had happened. And I went to call him I was on my way to practice in 2009 and picked up the phone and like you

know doubt it. Was like waiting for it to ring and then I realized like oh I can't call someone who's dead.

[00:13:42] And it kind of just like splitting me into like a spiraling few months of you know the actual real grieving process.

And wondering you know like what is life all about anyway. Who am I outside of running up and down this track? And you

know getting these accolades. And you know being judge or feeling as if I'm judged so harshly. Or so it was with so much

weight by the world because of my ability to run up and down the track. And you know you meet people and you know doctors

and lawyers and other people that are contributing to society. And it's like what does this mean? What am I contributing by

running up and down this track?

[00:14:20] And so I took that year off in 2010 to really just kind of try to find that answer for myself you know who am I

outside of this. Because I'm not finding that I'm anything other than an athlete. And I really. I know there's more but I don't

know what else I am and I want to take time to figure that out. And what I did during that all fear was spent a lot of time

talking to other people about you know how they got where they were. So there's a young lady that owns a hotel. And how do

you come to own a hotel? And her story was just you know all sorts of different things. And she didn't go to college for hotel

ownership. And then get out of school and work in a hotel and then become a hotel owner you know.

[00:14:58] It was a very very winding wavy story. And then you realize that you know you're not you know there's no linear

path to anything that you're doing. And you get to write your story. You get to decide who you are and what you want to be in.

And there's nothing that you can't do if you set your mind to it. And it's not just in saying that about sport it's about saying that

in life and deciding. Then what do you want to do? What do you want to set your mind to? And so that's kind of what was

happening for me in the 2010 year with me figuring all that out.

Laura:

[00:15:30] I love that. And what did you find out? Who are you? What did you discover during that time? I’ve loaded question

I know.

Lauren:

[00:15:39] Right. Exactly. I found out that who I am is ever evolving. That from one day to the next I am growing into who I'm

going to be. And that there doesn't have to be a set definition on that. I think that's one of the things we're always trying to fit

ourselves into a box. Wears the appropriate label that I'm supposed to be wearing right now. And there is no one thing that you

are you know. Like if you went through you could say you know a woman, dog lover, wife you know. And the list goes on of

all these different things you know. Law and order lover, podcaster, a financial planner but you don't need to fit into a box. And

for one day it makes one of those things my drop off and somebody else might be added to the mix. Each and every day is a

process of like you know being the best me that I can be. It's not really about you know fitting into anyone else's box or

creating boxes for myself.

Laura:

[00:16:36] So good. And so what made you in 2011 return to competition?

Lauren:

[00:16:42] I just knew that I wasn't done yet. You know I just I decided like you said that though this is not who I am in its

entirety. That it is a part of who I am. Track and field. And that I had more to give. I had more that I wanted to accomplish. I

had plenty of potentials inside. And that I wanted to go after reaching my full potential. And I wanted to really like walk away

by saying I have left it all on the track. And so I went back to the sport with that as the intention. And I did have a completely

different mindset when I think when I return the sport. Knowing that that was not like said the end all be all. And though I

didn't know what was coming next. That the end was closer than I was closer to the end than I was to the beginning. And that I

had better make the most of these opportunities.

[00:17:34] So I think my attitude changed quite a bit. I was a lot more grateful to those that I was around for their contribution

to you know me being able to compete. So you don't realize sometimes or you know because we're athletes and you know I'd

do an individual sport. It's a lot of me thinking about me. But the number of hours that someone else has to spend for me to be

able to reach my full potential. My coach has to write a workout. She has to watch the film. She has to show that practice with

me you know travel and be away from her family. And the way Coach does the same thing. You know the nutritionist is doing

similar things. And so really just like the kind of tuning into all that was around me and all that I had to be grateful for. And all

those people were pouring into me.

[00:18:16] I was a lot more aware and a lot more focused on showing gratitude and appreciation for my ability to be able to

compete. So I'd get to a track meet and remember to thank the volunteers. Because a lot of track and field is volunteer oriented.

And you know where they said busy Russian or we're mad at them because they telling us. We can't go over here and we need

to warm up over there. And you know it's like these are real people and take a moment to be present at the moment and realize

that. And I think it just created like set new energy for me as I return a sport.

Laura:

[00:18:51] That's so cool. And so how did that I guess change things? Because you did make another Olympic team in 2012.

Like, walk us through what this new attitude? This new kind of outlook on life. Like how did that affect your games in

London?

Lauren:

[00:19:06] I think it helped quite a bit because you know part of that story is I didn't make the Olympic team in my individual

event I made it only part of the relay. And so you know it's a tough pill to swallow. Initially that you didn't make it for your

individual event you know you could have been left at home but. And despite my failures you know 0-4 we dropped the baton,

0-8 we dropped the baton. Despite both of those being the situation and me being directly involved in both of those situations

they still thought enough of me to bring me as part of the relay. They thought that I had enough experience. They valued the

experiences that I had and wanted me to share that because most of the other team was brand new. They'd never been on an

Olympic team before. So here they are with this opportunity to be a part of the relay but they don't have any experience on this

stage. And I have not just experience but experience in the worst kind of way.

[00:20:00] So I can tell you exactly what to do to avoid ending up in the situation that I ended up in. And you know maturing

to a point to understand that has value. It was a really big part of the puzzle for me. Knowing that you know there's something

and being able to explain to them why we should not go about it this way. Why our chemistry needs to be really great. Why we

need to communicate with one another. Because that negative energy that we took on the track in 0-4 in 0-8 definitely played a

role in our failure. And I think you know that it was really important to contribute to our success in 2012.

Laura:

[00:20:36] Yeah I would say it’s successful. I mean I think our leadership and your wisdom that you learn along the way

obviously helped you guys walked away with a gold medal. Like what did that getting that gold medal means to you?

Lauren:

[00:20:50] I would say at the moment like you said it's been a process of me maturing to understanding and really getting

meaning from the metal. But at the moment I wasn't ready to accept. I felt really embarrassed and ashamed like you said the

way that I just described the medal to you now is where I've evolved to understanding. Like what my contribution was and

why it was valuable. But initially I felt kind of fraudulent. I felt like I didn't earn that medal. So the way that goes is there's six

of us that get to go as part of the relay. And two of us competed in only the first round while the other two are resting because

they were also running the open hundred meters. So I contributed in the first round which is an important thing because if you

don't get it around in the first round there is no second round.

Laura:

[00:21:34] Right.

Lauren:

[00:21:35] But you know the actual group that won the gold medal ran the final. Broke the world record. You know I wasn't on

that team. And so I felt a little bit weird initially to say that I was an Olympic gold medalist when I knew I didn't do the final

part of the race. I felt a little weird to call myself a world record holder when I was not actually on the track and you know

doing my part to contribute there. But as like I said I started to think about like the contributions. And you know having talks

with others. And you know just realizing how different that games was than the others. And you know like one of the girls

coming up to me later and saying you know thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me. You know it was really

frustrating when this happened or whatever and you helped me understand it. I realized that that was valuable and that was a

contribution and that helped her be able to compete hard to the best of her ability.

Laura:

[00:22:30] That's awesome. I guess sometimes it really is hard in those moments but I love that you can look back and see all

that you really did add to that. Because without leadership and without somebody guiding and directing. I mean who knows

what would have happened right? We need all of those things to come into play at the right time to happen. So what happened

after London? Because I think you retired from the track but something else kind of started to take a play and I want to know

how all of this unfolded?

Lauren:

[00:22:56] So I was thinking about giving up the sport. So London came and went and I had one season left as per my contract.

And I thought it was kind of the perfect timing because you know I could see and feel the end was near. As it pertains to my

ability to focus and really give all I needed to give to be a professional athlete. I knew that you know I can continue to compete

for 5 years at a mediocre rate or I could stop because I wasn't 100 percent. And my idea was you know make the most of this

last year of competing and then you know to move on with life. And while I was in my last year of competition I ran into Lolo

Jones at the airport and had read an article about her having tried bobsled after the 2012 Games. And just wanted to hear more

about her experience and how that happened and she was like Lauren it's awesome it's really really cool you should try it. And

it's the Olympic year and I was like so? I just got to be something cool to do in my free time. Now that I'm getting ready to

retire I wasn't thinking anything about the Olympics. And so yeah I reached out to find out what the process was and a month

later I was at the Olympic trials for bobsled and.

Laura:

[00:24:12] A month later?

Lauren:

[00:24:13] A month later. Yeah.

Laura:

[00:24:16] Goodness.

Lauren:

[00:24:16] No. Yeah. So that was. Yeah. From you know June of 2014 to June of 2013. July of 2013 I was there and I was

trying out and the Olympics were six months later. So immediately I showed up I got third place and I had a really steep

learning curve over the next six months.

Laura:

[00:24:38] I would imagine that's insane. That's insane. And now how did you get partnered with Alona too because you guys

were obviously an amazing team. Like how does that all work out in the bobsled world? Do they pick your teammate for you

or do you guys kind of all work together? What does that look like?

Lauren:

[00:24:54] We do a little bit of round robin in those 6 months that I was telling you about. So we were racing a World Cup

season that takes place before you get to the games and that plays into your rankings and you know where you'll go in the

process as a driver. But we did a lot of round robin to figure out who was gonna be best suited to who. And we actually did not

know until 10 days before the actual Olympics who was going to race with who.

Laura:

[00:25:20] Just 10 days? Whoa! that's crazy. So what. I mean did hearing the news that you're going to be on the Olympic team

and getting to walk this out was it just surreal? I mean here you were your whole life doing track and three Olympic Games

that way. And then all sudden you know in a month you're on this Olympic team and you're. I mean I can't even imagine. How

did you process that?

Lauren:

[00:25:44] So do I. Like I said it all happened really really quick from you know finding out about it. A month later being at

the trials to having 6 months to figure the whole thing out to be in a month before the Olympic Games. And we're all still

sitting and wait in you know anticipation. Trying to figure out like who are they going to pick. They finally named the team.

But then you still had to wait 20 more days to find out. You know, now you're on the team but you still don't know you're

racing with. So there's a lot of hurry up and wait anticipation and this big build of energy that's always happening in bobsled.

But it's just really about trying to figure out how to manage that to the best of your ability to kind of enjoy the ride. And I think

that was the thing that helped me a lot was I decided at the very beginning of it that I had nothing to lose.

[00:26:38] I only had things to gain and that the journey was going to be the thing that was going to be more important to me

than anything. What can I contribute? And I think that that 2012 experience of knowing that I wasn't competing but I could still

contribute. Help me understand that that's all that this was about. Is there a way I can contribute? Is there a way I can help this

team? And if you know if there's a way I can help but it doesn't require me to be on the actual track or on the actual team? Then

so be it. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that Team USA has the best 6 people out there.

Laura:

[00:27:15] That's so cool. Now I have to know because I've only been a summer athlete. What's the difference besides the

freezing cold? It's not like Miami. What's the difference between the summer and winter games? From your perspective?

Lauren:

[00:27:28] I would say that intimacy is the biggest thing. So I always tell people like I remember one of the years. I think they

said the track and field team was 182 people. So just USA Track and Field 182 people for the Olympics. The Winter Olympic

team all sports 230 people.

Laura:

[00:27:51] Wow.

Lauren:

[00:27:52] So it really puts in perspective. You know all the various sports that compete in the Olympic Games in the summer.

All the various sports for Team USA. You know there's thousands and thousands of athletes. But yeah one team in the summer

is pretty much equivalent to the whole Olympic team. All sports in the winter.

Laura:

[00:28:13] Wow that's cool. That's very cool. Well, you guys went on to mean not just compete but you got a silver medal in

the 2014 Winter Olympic Games in Sochi. Just one-tenth of a second behind the Canadians. Like what did that medal mean to

you and how is that different from all your other experiences?

Lauren:

[00:28:31] I mean the thing that was really cool about the medal was like I said I'd never seen it coming. I could have never

guessed that my life was going to take that turn and bring me such a cool opportunity. And to have the opportunity to get to do

it with Alona who is an amazing person made it that much more gratifying. Because we did it together. And you know in track

and field I didn't really get that opportunity. I had the individual medals and then I got to be a part of a team and do my

contribution there. But then this was like the end of the third time. Making me well-rounded if you will of actually competing

with another person and earning that medal together. And it just felt so great to be able to do something with someone and to

understand what it means to like partner up. And decide to really go hard for it for a specific purpose with another person.

Laura:

[00:29:30] That's so cool. And you made history and doing that she became the first American woman to win medals at both

the Summer and Winter Olympics. And one of only five athletes ever to do it at all. I mean that's incredible. Did you realize

you were making history when you did this?

Lauren:

[00:29:44] I did not. It did not come to my attention until the reporters brought it up afterward. What does it mean to you to

make history and I'm like What kind of history? I don't know. So.

Laura:

[00:29:56] That’s so cool. Well OK. So tell me now you have a financial planning business called Worth Winning. Tell us

about your company.

Lauren:

[00:30:04] Yes. So my company was born out of me not having the best financial planners during my career. So I worked with

two different gentlemen during the course of my career and I wanted to be responsible with my finances. But they didn't really

understand what I needed as an athlete. You know what I needed as a 20 year old who didn't know a whole lot about money.

And you know my busy travel schedule and you know there's just a lot that doesn't fit into the traditional box of what financial

planning is. So I help young professionals and professional athletes organize their finances and you know what does that mean.

That's like creating a budget you never bought a house before and that's something you want to do. If you're saving for a

wedding you know you don't know anything about how to put money aside for taxes. And you know do you need a business

account or not. And there's just so many different things that get thrown our direction. And just kind of make money, spend

money, you know hopefully save a little bit money and you know that's not a real strategy.

[00:31:05] I help people optimize their finances so use them money, give it a job and give it a job that's gonna be in line with

your values. So I spend a lot of time talking with my athletes and the young professionals that I work with. About what are

your goals? What are your values? The same way that we do in the sport. Let's work backward from there and create smaller

goals. Smaller things that we want to do. And then go you know piece by piece after that so that we can you know the

championship is this one thing that you're trying to achieve. But once again it's never like making it to the podium that makes

you feel awesome. Is this journey all along the way? And so using money as a tool to really enjoy the journey is how I try to

focus my business and help people in all aspects of their finances.

Laura:

[00:31:50] My goodness I love that on so many levels. I mean I love just what you're doing. I love who you're targeting to

help. I mean there's definitely that need there. I mean a lot of people like you said are young when they become professional

athletes. Because that's usually when an athletic career is optimal when you're young and you don't know anything. So I just

think it's brilliant. I love how you compare it to athletics in such a way that we can understand. And I think you do a lot of stuff

virtually too right?

Lauren:

[00:32:12] Yeah I'm completely virtual. I'm actually podcasting today from Buenos Aires. So.

Laura:

[00:32:16] Oh wow. We should've done this on location. I should have come down to you. That would be nice.

Lauren:

[00:32:25] You know as young professionals we are tech savvy. We're on the go. We're spread out all over the country. And I

didn't want that to stop me from being able to serve the client that I want to serve. And we jump on a video chat just like zoom

and we talk about what needs to be talked about. And there's no dumb question. And there's no you know fancy suit and tie that

needs to be worn. You know people's kids are running around in the background. These things shouldn't be barriers. You

getting help and getting the answers that you need about your finances. And it should be talked about in such a way that you

don't understand it in. It sounds so fancy and complicated.

[00:33:00] You know we've got basic questions and I really just want to help with basic questions. When I was competing and I

wasn't finding that. I was frequently finding you know there like I said fancy talk down to me it sounds more complicated than

you can understand. Because you're not smart enough and I'm like No that's not true at all. Like, break it down in a way that

lets me know what I'm doing. Why we're doing this? And you know helped me set some goals so that I'm gonna be OK in the

future.

Laura:

[00:33:25] I love it. Sports just. Yes. It can play off in your life in so many ways. And it's just such a good analogy for life

right? You could just use it in so many ways. I love it. And you also have a podcast now you said it's a year it's been a year

now. So happy anniversary to your podcast called Worth Listening. What do you talk about on your podcast?

Lauren:

[00:33:42] Yes. I love love love love my podcast. And the reason that I love it is like a passion project for me. It is encouraging

others to discuss money and I think that's one of the big barriers that we have in organizing our finances nowadays. Because

we all know that everybody has to make money some sort of way. Everybody has to spend money on some sort of way. And

there's no requirement that you hire a financial planner or someone to help you. But what people do is hide the information and

they are afraid to say what they don't know and they're ashamed of all these different things. And that's what actually leaves

you making more mistakes is hiding, being embarrassed not feeling like you can be open. And feeling like you have to know

everything and you can't ask anyone anything. And so my podcast is based all around people telling their money story. So that

the listeners don't have to feel alone and like oh I have student loan debt too that six figures. And you know this is how I'm

tackling it. And you know I don't know what a 401(k) is but I know I'm putting some money in it. And you know now this

person help me break it down a little bit.

[00:34:48] So it's getting rid of all those barriers of things that could stop you from being able to save for your future or being

able to get over the fact that you've made some mistakes before and really move forward. You know I had a girl on recently

that I met paid down over 50,000 dollars in credit card debt. And I think a lot of people get in a situation like that and they just

you know maybe file for bankruptcy. Or they would never even say anything to anyone. But this girl decided to make a

mindset change and pay it all back and get rid of it and you know to change the way that she was going to think about money

in the future. And I think that's a really inspirational story to tell. She didn't have to be a financial expert to inspire people to do

the right thing and to get on some sort of plan. So the podcast is all about like I said having money. Discussions and

encouraging others to be more open and honest about sharing what they know and educating one another about finances.

Laura:

[00:35:42] And if that's not having this new business in your podcast you're also releasing a book very soon called the Oval

Office. A 4 time Olympians guide to professional track and field. So tell us about your book that's coming.

Lauren:

[00:35:56] The book. Yes. This is another thing that I'm really excited about we are just days away. Actually spent the whole

morning on the last round of edits and sent it off to the designer to redo and get it to look like a book. Because right now it's

like a document and yet again another passion project. There are so many people in track and field that are just like how do you

navigate this world and they have questions. And there's no guide. There's nothing that tells you to like how do you become a

professional track and field athlete? And what do I need to know and how can I be responsible for managing all these different

aspects? And what questions should I be asking my agent? What should I consider before I buy a house and then decide that

I'm going to go train with this coach instead. And now I'm stuck with a house in this state and got to pay rent in this day.

[00:36:42] And there's just so many different things that I learned during my time competing that I felt like I needed to share.

And it wasn't just gonna be a one hour talk and you know try to change someone's life. But like why not give them the

roadmap to the things that I felt like I was missing in addition to the things that I felt like I did really well. And that's how the

Oval Office was born. And I'm really really really excited about the way that it's going to change the lives of those or interested

in the sport. Obviously not going to be like a New York Times bestseller. Track and field is a very small sport but it matters so

much to me that they'll have a resource available to them to help them understand better how to navigate sport.

Laura:

[00:37:23] I think it's amazing. It sounds like you don't just have to be a track and field athlete. I mean I'm looking at the

highlights that you had on the Web site. I mean it's like how to choose the members of your team including your agent, your

coach, your training group. How do you negotiate sponsorships and contracts? And handling your finances like a professional

athlete. Building your brand using social media. Managing travel nutrition life outside of sports. I mean to me it sounds like it's

gonna be helpful to any professional athlete. So I'm gonna have to preorder a copy because I know you can. So tell us where

we can find your book your podcast. Your company. All of your online things where we can follow you to continue to just be

inspired and to learn from you because you obviously have a lot of great wisdom to teach us.

Lauren:

[00:38:03] Definitely. So the book is The-Oval-office.com. So all of my web sites have a little dash in the middle because you

know to buy the actual website was a bazillion dollars. But we've kept it all consistent so whatever words I say put a dash in

the middle in between and get to the .com and you're there. So Lauren-Williams.com is my personal Web site is all about me as

an Olympian and being a speaker and consulting and things like that. And then Worth-Winning.com is a website for financial

planning all things financial planning. And so you can find us on social media looking for the same sort of thing. So

Worth_Winning on Twitter, @worthwinning on Instagram. Lauren C. Williams on all the social media platforms so that's the

one thing that's a little bit different. But I'm sure that all the initial notes. So.

Laura:

[00:38:54] Yeah. We'll make sure to link to everything you guys don't get confused. But Lauren thank you so much for coming

  1. You're an incredible inspiration. I feel like you're a great teacher as well and so we just really appreciate all of your wisdom

here today.

Lauren:

[00:39:06] It was wonderful being on the show. Like I said I hope that I can inspire and I'm just really excited to be kind of in

the next phase of life where I can give back to the sport because the sport has given so much to me.

Laura:

[00:39:19] Wow! A huge thanks to Lauren for joining us today. Isn't she just incredible? I just love how she talked about taking

that time off in 2010 to really dig into her purpose and figure out what life was about outside of running. It's so neat how that

journey just drastically changed who she was going into the next Olympics. The gratitude leadership and composure that her

solid identity gave her. It really allowed her to ride the waves of the coming years towards all of the amazing things that she's

doing now. She's just incredible. Be sure to check out the links the show notes to follow on social media. And if you're an

athlete definitely snag a copy of her book because that knowledge will be so invaluable for you and for the athletes out there

looking to improve their athletic performance with a purpose. I'm offering a free life masterclass where all talk about five

common mistakes athletes makes that hinder success. If you're ready for a change and want the skills to take your performance

to the next level then I want you to go and sign up. LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass. That's LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass

to sign up for my free live masterclass on five common mistakes athletes make that hinder success. I'll see you there! And be

sure to subscribe so you don't miss next week's episode because we have an absolutely insane athlete joining us. David Colturi

was once just a 10-meter platform diver like myself. But apparently that wasn't quite enough of a thrill. He is now a cliff diver

and travels internationally diving from nearly nine stories high. I'm sure you're wondering how he does it. I am too. You don't

want to miss it. On behalf of Hope Sports, I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks for tuning in and have a great week. This podcast is

produced by Evo Terra in Simpler Media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please

visit HopeSports.org

 

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About This Episode

Matt Lindland always dreamed of competing at the Olympic level, but maybe not in the sport you’d expect. Having grown up in the country, his notoriety as a athlete was in equestrian events, not mixed martial arts. Matt was one of the best riders in his state and desperately wanted to compete nationally, but his family could not financially swing such an involved sport. When one of his high school gym teachers encouraged him to wrestle, he decided to give it a try. He finished his first season and had fallen in love with the sport. Soon after, he was invited to compete in a Greco-Roman Invitational and, with no experience in that style, enrolled in four different categories. He finished 0-8 that weekend and walked away knowing that he would need both a coach and a lot of work if his dreams were to come true.

Matt found his way to a local club where it just so happened that the 1984 Olympic Wrestling team coach worked. Lindland wasn’t heavily recruited after high school, so took time to attend a junior college and continue his training. The hard work paid off, as he went on to win Nationals and soon had a contract with the University of Nebraska. He made a name for himself his first year as a Cornhusker, going 38-0 through the regular season. Despite his stellar record that year, he lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Whether it was due to dropping too much weight or training too hard, he didn’t peak at the right time to snag a podium spot. After his eligibility was up, he returned home to Oregon with his wife. He trained and coached in the Portland area before accepting an offer to move to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs just two weeks after his daughter was born.

He spent the next four years getting a diverse training experience with the other 24 wrestlers at the center. They traveled internationally and competed around the world - something Matt credits with expanding his style, tactics, and relationships in the wrestling world. After four successful years at the center, he was invited into a coaching position by the University of Nebraska. Excited about the opportunity to pour into younger athletes while continuing to train himself, Matt accepted the position. He was a coach, mentor, competitor, and father during his years in Nebraska. Doors began opening for him to pursue MMA fighting, but he put those on hold to focus on the Olympics - one of his ultimate dreams.

His road to the Olympic team wasn’t easy, however. A misjudged match during the Olympic trials led to a long, drawn out legislative battle. After he was given a re-match and defeated his opponent 9-0, he was finally appointed to the Olympic Team by a Federal judge at the Supreme Court level. But the controversy was not over. Even as he walked into the Opening Ceremony at the 2000 Olympics, the case was being re-arbitrated in International Court. Through the entire process Matt could have been removed from the team at any moment, but continued to train as though he was headed to the mat in Sydney. His hard work and focus paid off as he was not only given the green light to compete, but walked away with a silver medal at the games. His nickname “The Law” was born from the unprecedented judicial intervention required.

On the heels of a successful Olympics, Lindland went on to medal at the World Championships in Japan. Knowing what he was capable of and with the pressure removed, he was able to simply enjoy competing. He transitioned to Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) with the UFC and navigated the ins and outs of a sport that was developing and implementing new rules as well as growing rapidly. Seeking to make a career out of wrestling, Lindland expanded to stunt driving and coordinating fight scenes for movies, opened his own gym in Portland, and continued coaching on the side.

Matt has never been one to back down from a fight, even outside of the ring. In 2008 he discovered that no one from his district was running for the seat in the State House of Representatives. Committed to his community, he stepped up and registered as a candidate. Though he lost in the general election, he appreciated support from his district and the opportunity to invest in it.

As if he couldn’t diversify his talents anymore, while in Oregon a white water rafting team approached him about using space in his gym to train in the off season and invited him to try out the sport sometime. What began as an adventurous outing became “my favorite sporting experience,” Matt confides. The team went on to win seven tournaments and went to the National Championship. Through juggling multiple professional sports, a business, coaching, a horse ranch, and a family, Matt credits his wife with being his steadiness through the storm. “Whatever you want to achieve, you need someone who is a partner with you to navigate the rough waters,” he says.

In 2014 he welcome another new opportunity: coach of the National Greco-Roman Wrestling Team. At this stage in his career, more than anything, Matt appreciates the privilege and responsibility of being a coach. His focus isn’t solely on developing strong athletes, but strong characters, leadership, and integrity. Despite being tough on the mat, Lindland recognizes the crippling struggle with identity, emotional issues, and relational security of so many young athletes. “It’s hard to go through life scared,” he says. “I want young people to know that they are loved and matter more than their sport.” And his coaching style reflects this. He takes his athletes on team building trips, develops retreats that don’t include actual wrestling at all, challenges them in areas outside of their comfort zones, and pursues building one on one relationships aside from training. “Every time you challenge yourself you get less fearful,” says Matt. Whether that is a new training regimen, a new job, a new relationship, or a new level of honesty with oneself, in testing the bounds we become less fearful of what could happen, less focused on our limitations.

Matt’s life has always reflected the magic of chasing what is possible, of confronting new obstacles bravely, and of facing challenges with fists ready.

Follow more of Matt Lindland on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook and be especially inspired by his Leadership Series on his YouTube Channel.

 

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Laura:

[00:00:06] Welcome to the hope sports podcast where each week we have the privilege of hearing from an elite athlete about what made them fall in love with their sport. What parts of their journey were the most challenging and how they find purpose and meaning in their lives outside of medal counts and competitions. This week we not only have an amazing athlete but just one of the most multitalented individuals that I know of. You may know Matt Lindland as a UFC fighter but like me. You may not know about the original sport he wanted to pursue. Or how he owns multiple businesses or that he once ran for political office. Or how it took a Supreme Court ruling to get him on the U.S. Olympic team. Seriously, I can't make this stuff up. You're in store for a fascinating episode as Matt shares his journey and how he kept pursuing dream after dream as they came his way. Thanks for joining me. Now let's dive on in.

 

[00:00:56] Alright Matt Lindland thank you so much for joining us at the hope sports podcast.

 

Matt:

[00:01:00] Absolutely. My pleasure. I'm excited.

 

Laura:

[00:01:02] Well let's just get right to it. So for those that are listening to that may not be as familiar with your background. Can you tell us a little bit how you got started into sports?

 

Matt:

[00:01:10] Well I got started in the sports because I was rural a boy I lived in the country and I grew up you know as an equestrian athlete. I thought I was gonna.

 

Laura:

[00:01:21] Really?

 

Matt:

[00:01:23] Yes really. I thought I was going to compete in the Olympics and either eventing or showjumping or steeplechase or I just. All I ever did from that time I was. From my first memory, I was on a horse and I was probably one of the bus rides. I was one of the best riders in my state and looking to go to the regionals and hoping to go to the Nationals. And my parents informed me that we were poor people and find a new sport. And so I discovered wrestling in high school. And it was very interesting because our gym coach you know he had wrestling and part of the curriculum is the gym class. And so you know of course they're like oh man you're great. You should come out for the team you know. So I was a 98 lbs freshman in high school going out for the wrestling team and I just really fell in love with the sport. And after the season that year when one of our head coaches handed us a fire and was like Yeah there's this freestyle and Roman Greco. And I asked my assistant coach if he knew anything about this Roman Greco thing and he was like I do know that it's called Greco Roman. And I could probably help you prepare for it but that wasn't his expertise. And so I went to the tournament and I don't know if many people have ever done this and gone 8 and 0 and one weekend. Because I entered both the freestyle and both the Graco and Junior and cadet age groups. So. And I.

 

Laura:

[00:02:58] All in one way. How did you have the energy for that?

 

Matt:

[00:03:00] Well you know some of the masters were pretty quick. I just got thrown on my back and then.

 

Laura:

[00:03:07] Wow. Amazing.

 

Matt:

[00:03:07] But also I went on at 8 and I realized that I needed to find a club that had some more lead training. Lo and Behold I show up at this club and the coach at the club was the 1984 Olympic wrestling coach.  And I had amazing coaches at this club every one of my coaches. The head coach there Marc Sprague was an incredible mentor still a mentor of mine to this day. And I owe him a call because I'm working with one of his athletes now. He's 75 and still coaching wrestling.

 

Laura:

[00:03:49] That's awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:03:50] Yeah but you know it took a lot of years to figure out how to do this sport and to get to the level that I wanted to so. Coming out of high school I wasn't a big recruit or anything. So I ended up going to a junior college and I ended up winning a national title. And I did get recruited to a college finally and I went to the University of Nebraska. I had some success there. I was the number one ranked athlete in the country and I was 36-0 going into the national tournament. I lost that first round.

 

Laura:

[00:04:23] Oh my gosh!

 

Matt:

[00:04:23] And so I was not an all-American I wasn't even a placer that year

 

Laura:

[00:04:29] Was OK OK. So you win the junior college like nationals then you go to a D1 school. You're 36-0. You're ranked number one and you lose in the first round at the NCAA. Like what. I mean were you shocked? Like were you. I just. I mean how did you handle that like what was that like?

 

Matt:

[00:04:47] It was a culmination of a lot of things I think it was a long season. They didn't recover me well. They didn't trust me. They wanted me to cut 158lbs and I was probably about 170ish you know? And it was a long season and they didn't pick me at the right time. And that's you know partially my fault but I was a young athlete and still trying to figure this out. And you know change some things up. And so after my eligibility my wife and I and our son we moved back to Oregon which is where I'm from. And she was. She's from Oregon too and she wants to move back there and. I was want to stay in Lincoln and possibly finish up my degree at that time. And you know keep wrestling at the college. But she was ready to move back to Oregon. And I was there for a year I was a coach to three different clubs. I was trying to squeeze training in between. And I actually got invited to move to Colorado Springs at the Olympic Training Center. And we waited till my daughter was born and then two weeks later we moved to Colorado Springs.

 

Laura:

[00:05:54] Wow! Wow! So how? OK. How long had you been wrestling at that point when you got invited to Colorado Springs?

 

Matt:

[00:06:00] So I started in 85 and this was 94

 

Laura:

[00:06:06] OK. Wow! So that's very cool. Now. OK. For your age, cause you seem to start late and you started in high school. And that seems kind of was that kind of late?

 

Matt:

[00:06:13] I think it is pretty late for you know a lot of guys. But you know in my experience I think there's like a really good 10year window. You know like you know. And you can be really good in high school or college and then you're kind of done. And since I started late it allowed me to continue on. And I didn't win my first medal till I was 30

 

Laura:

[00:06:38] Oh wow. That's awesome. So what. OK. What was training at the Olympic Training Center like? I mean that's something people just dream of you know. What was that like?

 

Matt:

[00:06:46] It was exciting. I was moving out to Colorado Springs and you know I got out here. And at that time you know things have changed here in Colorado Springs with the amount of athletes they actually will how is it. That time I think we get over I think it was like 24-26 of us. Lots of training partners lots of opportunities to travel internationally and compete all over the world. And just you know chase our dreams and do what we love to do. And it was a credible opportunity but it was also very difficult. And so after 3 years 3 and a half years of doing that my former coach at Nebraska offered to hire me for a job. And I wasn't quite sure because I needed to have you know I needed training. I needed to get to international tournaments I needed training partners and he offered to do all those things. And so I ended up moving to Lincoln and my last four years of wrestling right up to the Olympics was that whole quad I was training out of Nebraska. And at that time getting to mentor other athletes.

 

Laura:

[00:07:56] OK. Now, this is awesome. So you are coaching, your training, you have a wife, you have two children, and didn't you also start doing MMA stuff around this time?

 

Matt:

[00:08:07] I did. Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:08:10] How did you do all this stuff?

 

Matt:

[00:08:12] I took three flights in MMA in 1997 right after I moved in Nebraska. And I realized that I was going to be a lot of fun but it was gonna be you know pretty much the same kind of journey. And so I took those three flights all relatively close. I think two of them were on one night the other one was like a month away. And I put that on hold because I knew that to reach my goals and wrestling and get on the podium it was gonna take a lot of sacrifices. A lot of discipline. And I couldn't really split my time between doing MMA. So I really put that on hold. But the games were in October that year and December I started the fight in the UFC.

 

Laura:

[00:08:55] Wow. OK. So the Olympics were the big goal the big dream. Like what was it like finally getting there and being in that environment. Like, take us through that.

 

Matt:

[00:09:04] Well Laura it was quite the process. I don't know how much research you did but there was a court case too for me to get on the Olympic team.

 

Laura:

[00:09:15] Oh wait isn't this right? You got your nickname through this, didn’t you?

 

Matt:

[00:09:17] I did.

 

Laura:

[00:09:19] So what. OK. [00:09:20] What was that all like? But that was part of qualifying for the team?

 

Matt:

[00:09:23] The shows only you know half hour 40 minutes. That longer time. But I'll give you the really short version. The Olympic trials were misjudged. They didn't apply the rules properly at the Olympic trials. And then they didn't allow me to protest. They said it was a judgment call and I said it was a misapplication and there was just you we're splitting hairs there. You know it's judgment its a misapplication. And so they refused to give me due process at the Olympic trials. And so my only recourse was to go to the Greco-Roman sports committee and have my case heard in front of my peers and the Greco-Roman sports committee there. They make a committee up and then they started pulling members off of the committee that may have had bias. Well, that's why you have a committee is because everybody has bias. And so you have multiple people but you can't pull people off the committee that you think may vote one way or the other because they may have a bias. So again I was denied due process I went to an arbitrator and this was my last chance. The arbitrator ordered the match be re-wrestled. I beat the opponent 9 to 0. Now if you beat your opponent by 8 the match is over. But at that time it was 10. So it was pretty close to know to technical superiority. And then the real fun happened. They didn't make me to the team.

 

Laura:

[00:10:55] Even after you beat him in the rematch?

 

Matt:

[00:10:57] Yeah. They were they did not name me to the team. And so we had to go to a federal judge and they forced the United States Olympic Committee and USA wrestling to put me on the team. And then once I got on the team they allowed the case to be radically arbitrated. And that is the oddest thing because arbitration is final and binding.

 

Laura:

[00:11:20] Right. Oh my gosh. That’s super sad.

 

Matt:

[00:11:20] The case was arbitrated. See I tell you this a long story. It's crazy. The other day the case while ultimately went to the United States Supreme Court. And they upheld the ruling of the federal judge and I left for processing that same day. I got the ruling and we processed in San Diego that year.

 

Laura:

[00:11:43] So when were your trials? And then what was the timeline with all of these cases up until we left? Because like it was in September. We left it was like the end of September when the Olympics started. So when were your trials?

 

Matt:

[00:11:56] Elsewhere in June.

 

Laura:

[00:11:57] OK. Wow. How did you keep your head straight during all of that?

 

Matt:

[00:12:02] You know I. It was difficult. It was very difficult but I had a vision I had goals and I have faith. Oh, a lot of Arizona. And just you know to stand strong. I mean there were definitely moments where I wasn't sure. And I just kept training through the whole process.

 

Laura:

[00:12:24] Did you have like I mean support around you? Did you kind of feel all alone at that point?

 

Matt:

[00:12:29] Well I feel pretty alone. But I you know I have a wonderful life that I've been married to for 27 years and I have two children that love me. And I have some great coaches that that supported me. But you know nobody could tell me Hey you for sure you're gonna get this spot. You know we just kept praying and hoping that that was the case and you just kept training through this whole process. And then when I got to Australia we went to a city a couple of hours away in Canberra and had our acclimation camp. The day I walked in opening some ceremonies they were gonna be arbitrating the case in the International Court of Arbitration for Sport.

 

Laura:

[00:13:11] Are you serious?

 

Matt:

[00:13:12] Yeah. The day I was walking opening ceremonies. So this thing was like never gonna end. And fortunately, they woke a federal judge up in Chicago at like 3:00 in the morning. You know they were calling from Australia and he said you know what you guys won you beat me. Just know that if you plan on coming back to the United States we'll have air marshals waiting for you in contempt. And so if you guys choose to do this you know go ahead. But they ended up not going forward with that last case and I wrestled the games and made it to the finals and got a silver medal that year.

 

Laura:

[00:13:52] Which is amazing. Amazing. I mean what. Ok. What was the experience like to be in the Olympics? You walked in the opening ceremony is greeted with this cloud hanging over you. But like were you able to at least enjoy that and soak in that Olympic spirit or what was that like? Take us through that.

 

Matt:

[00:14:06] Now it was. You know what I had some great training partners. I had one of my best friends dearest friend. He was an alternative. He did not make the team that year. He was away class below me. He was one of my training partners at every camp. And he left camp early went to Sydney and got an apartment right next to the venue that had saunas and a place to recover. And relax in between rounds and before the weigh-ins. And so you know I just really kind of pulled myself away and just surrounded myself with loved ones and people that really cared about me and supported me. I didn't really get into the whole Olympic thing. My kids were pretty young. They were four and six at the time and my wife was there and they were staying there. And I just remember the one night though. My daughter and my son and my wife came to visit me and my daughter says you're going to go home with us tonight. And I was like yes. Yes! So excited.

 

Laura:

[00:15:16] They were things in real perspective, did they?

 

Matt:

[00:15:18] You know they do and they help us keep things in perspective. And a lot of what's really important and that was really what was important to me. It wasn't the after parties it wasn't the opening ceremonies in the village. And I mean those things are great. And I met Muhammad Ali in the village and I mean that was cool things that happened at the games. But ultimately it was just you know being able to have that opportunity to compete and you know try to try to pursue my highest goals for the for my career.

 

Laura:

[00:15:51] That's awesome. That's awesome. And the next year you got a silver at the World Cup and I think that's when you retired after that, right?

 

Matt:

[00:15:57] Next year was the World Championships.

 

Laura:

[00:15:59] World Championships. OK.

 

Matt:

[00:16:00] And I moved up a weight class because I was almost done. I started fighting right after the Olympics. The games were in early October and I fought early December in the UFC in Japan that year. And I started fighting throughout that year and the World Championships were going to be held in New York City in September of 2001. And so I had a great training camp and I was getting ready to go to the World Championships and somebody crashed some planes into the World Trade Center. And so they cancelled the worlds they postponed it till December. So I had a new training camp and new preparation and really enjoyable process honestly even through what was going on in the world and everything. The fact that I was just having fun and enjoying it because I really at that point didn't care of I made the team. I just wanted to go compete and have fun and I didn't carry all that pressure of wanting to win wanting to win and. I was able to put things in a better perspective. I was a little older. I've already won a medal at the Olympics. I knew what I was capable of doing but I wasn't sure that I knew weight class. I was moving up you know from 76 kilos to 87 kilos. It was quite a jump.

 

Laura:

[00:17:27] Oh wow. Mm-hmm. That's cool. That's cool. So following that you went kind of full time into UFC staff right? And that was kind of new at that time wasn’t it?

 

Matt:

[00:17:37] It was pretty new. It was not owned by the current owners at the time. And the current owners you know the Fertitta brothers and Dana White. Those guys weren't involved back then. But after my first fight they had purchased the company and started making some big changes. And you know with a lot of the rules were just coming into place. You know my first fights were there was like three rules no biting no eye gouging and I think you can attack somebody in the groin. And I was like.

 

Laura:

[00:18:08] And that's it. Those are the only rules.

 

Matt:

[00:18:10] That was it you know. And as things progressed they started putting in more rules and made it more of a sport. And now it's a worldwide sport.

 

Laura:

[00:18:19] that's so cool to be part of something like it's inception like that. Well I guess. Why did you decide to be done with wrestling and go into more of this mixed martial arts kind of arena?

 

Matt:

[00:18:30] The living and an athlete.

 

Laura:

[00:18:32] I wish you wouldn’t do that. Come on.

 

Matt:

[00:18:35] There wasn't a lot of prize money in wrestling and you know. You know it's in the name price fighter you know so I was like OK I'm going to go fight for a prize. And I just. I had a different perspective on things it was like Yeah I want to be the best in the world but I also want to make a living doing what I love to do. And that allowed me to do that.

 

Laura:

[00:18:58] That's awesome. We don't have much of that opportunity in diving like now. A lot of people go into kind of Cirque du Soleil type stuff. That's kind of our diving after they're done with their Olympic runs or their college runs. They're all kind of going into the circus shows now our performances on back of cruise ships and things. It’s kinda crazy.

 

Matt:

[00:19:16] Make a decent living such thing? Okay.

 

Laura:

[00:19:17] Well yeah. Well not quite that much I don't think. But they make a living. So yeah I hear you. So now I heard you also were a stunt man in some TV shows and films. Like what was. As an acrobat I've always wanted to do that. I always thought that would be so awesome. Is as cool as I think it is.

 

Matt:

[00:19:36] Honestly. Yes if you prefer.

 

Laura:

[00:19:40] Yes! I love hearing that.

 

Matt:

[00:19:41] I got to do some fight scenes. I had some opportunities to drive cars in New York City when they shut the streets down and use some different things like that on leverage. I did this one show called The tap out job. And it was great because they asked me to actually coordinate the fight scenes throughout. It was a television show that one but I've done some film as well. And I brought a lot of guys from my gym was like oh we need backup guy we need background people hidden bags and in the gym. And you know we need some preliminary fights so you know I got to hire you know a lot of people and coordinate some stuff. But that really was a lot of fun. But I never wanted to be famous. That was never a goal of mine. I enjoyed the work. I enjoyed doing the stunt work and being on camera and be on set. That was fun. But then it was never a goal of mine to be famous. So I just didn't continue to pursue that as much as I probably could have if that was really what I was driven to do. I was still fighting at the time. So it was in between fights. It was just an opportunity to make some extra cash and do some fun and exciting.

 

Laura:

[00:21:05] Well you did a lot of fun and exciting things. I love how one thing keeps taking you to the next thing and you also took a little dip into politics. So I have to ask was that fighting rougher than like being in the octagon?

 

Matt:

[00:21:16] Oh my gosh. Politics so annoying. And you know I ran as a conservative and I'm barely a conservative. And I'm leaning way more conservative than I do liberal. But I'm like this like almost anarchist libertarian. I'm like that far right? I'm farther right than most conservatives but in a more freedom kind of way. So it was interesting. I won a primary a very heated primary. And the thing was you know they didn't have anybody running for my seat in my district. And I was running for a State House seat. And so the last day of filing I've put my name on the computer and I started getting all these calls like why are you doing this? Who are you? What do you do? I was like well I'm going to represent my community and my people and what we got.

 

Laura:

[00:22:12] So was this not really like thought through? Like you just kind of on a whim nobody's running I should run or haven’t thought about this?

 

Matt:

[00:22:17] It was my strength coach and I we talked about it for months. Like you know I wonder if anybody's going to fill that seat. You know like you know and then like that morning after a workout I went home got on my computer and registered to run for the seat. And then all of a sudden they're like oh we've got somebody. I said well that's great if you got somebody you know let me out and I'll support them if I get on board. But you know I wasn't into I don't know how to put this any other way. But you know that the opponent was running against me was really pro-abortion. And that was kind of one of my big issues was I'm pro-life I'm very pro-life. So that was a hard thing for me to get over I said I can't support this individual and I'm going to have to try to run against her. So I did that and then I lost the general election on a two point margin.

 

Laura:

[00:23:22] Wow.

 

Matt:

[00:23:22] Yeah I did my whatever into politics a little bit.

 

Laura:

[00:23:30] Well I love that you stand up for what you believe in and you are not afraid of a fight whether it's in the ring or in the office. That's awesome. I love it.

 

Matt:

[00:23:37] You left out my probably my most favorite sport that I took up after this. You know what it was?

 

Laura:

[00:23:42] Oh no. What?

 

Matt:

[00:23:45] I raised professionally Whitewater.

 

Laura:

[00:23:48] Whitewater. OK. How did that happen?

 

Matt:

[00:23:51] OK. This is a great story because I have a gym. I have a martial arts school in Portland and it's also a fitness center. And this team of Whitewater racers asked me if I would donate some space for them to train in the offseason. While they couldn't do whitewater training if they could get in my gym and do strength and conditioning. And so I gave them some space and some time. We have a pretty big martial arts studio we have like two different mat rooms. Like we can have a kickboxing class going on in one room and a jiu jitsu or grappling class and the other and then I have a fitness area. And our fitness classes run 4 or 5 and 6 and so our martial arts classes go till like 9:00 o'clock at night. So I gave the the raft team my space and said Yeah come on in we're still training and nobody's in the fitness area you guys can use that. And then they invited me to go watch a race and then they convinced me to get in the boat with on that day and.

 

Laura:

[00:24:56] Of course. I'm guessing you are not hard to convince.

 

Matt:

[00:24:59] No no no. I was like I lost my whitewater sir. Let's go. And then the next weekend I start racing with that team. And I won seven regional titles which is the western region. Which is like basically the entire West Coast Washington, California, Oregon, Idaho, Montana that whole area where there is water.

 

Laura:

[00:25:25] And so how long had you been doing it when you started winning all the titles?

 

Matt:

[00:25:29] I got on a really good team and we just started winning but we never won the nationals we were second one year in third twice.

 

Laura:

[00:25:41] Man! So is this why you were coaching full time so you weren't still also fighting or were you still.

 

Matt:

[00:25:47] Still fighting MMA.

 

Laura:

[00:25:48] Of course you were.

 

Matt:

[00:25:49] And I was coaching and I had a ranch with 16 horses and.

 

Laura:

[00:25:57] Wow. And I'm starting to think your wife must be pretty incredible too. To like hold down the fort and the kids and everything else. I'm sure.

 

Matt:

[00:26:06] My wife is amazing she she surprises me every day you know with her. Just her kindness and generosity and her love and we're just down Oregon for the holidays. We live in Colorado Springs now because I'm the national coach for the Greco-Roman Olympic team. And my kids they still live in Oregon. They're 24 and 26 now. We went back there to visit our kids and my wife's father's dying and. He's just not a not a nice person at all and never was a great father but she is like an amazing daughter. Like she was just out there every other day we were driving two hours to the coast. And she was taking care of his affairs and his nurses and his hospice and his bills. And just being patient and kind and loving and I was just. She just impressed me more and more every day. So yeah she is a wonderful person. And you need that kind of support when you're whatever you're doing in life. I mean whatever you want to achieve in life you need somebody that's a partner with you and can help you navigate the rough waters.

 

Laura:

[00:27:20] Definitely. Definitely. And now like you mentioned you are now the head Team USA wrestling coach since like 2014 right?

 

Matt:

[00:27:28] Yes I took the job in 2014 right before the World Championships. And now I served on one Olympics in Rio and that was a lot of fun. But we didn't come back with any medals that year. And last year we got a silver medal at the World Championships and we've got two other bronze medals from one individual. And now it's a lot of team building. I mean you're dealing with. You've dealt with a lot of young men that they're not you know like they don't trust people they don't. Because I think there's this a huge father crisis. I just think there's a lot of dads that have abandoned these young men and they're like tough guys. But they're really not tough. The tough men on the mats but in life they just have a lot of difficulties because they don't trust people. They don't know how to be loved because they've never been loved necessarily and they don't know you know just as. It's hard. It’s hard working with some of these young guys nowadays. Because there's a lot of guys that just come from these broken families. And they all seem to end up in the sport of wrestling or MMA.

 

Laura:

[00:28:49] Alright. Well I guess it's a good outlet that way at least. But I mean do you find yourself when you're coaching. Is it more than technique and stuff that you're having to work on their their hearts and their minds more?

 

Matt:

[00:28:59] That's exactly what you know that was part of the reason I wanted to take our guys down to Mexico to build homes with the hope sports. And I just want to understand that they're more than just an athlete. They’re you know there are people that are valued. They’re you know God loves them and. But it's you know it's tough to share that message you know all the time with guys. You just gonna do it by example and by showing them that you care about them. But yeah we work on a lot of character strength stuff. We have a lot of different times where we're meeting about this camp that's coming up. I mean we identified five areas that my athletes identified. I know I put them in a room and I sat him down and I put them into small groups I said come back. You know there's got to be some things that we can get better as a team. And I'm not talking about wrestling I'm not talking about conditioning or skills or techniques. I'm talking about what do we need to get better as a team and our athletes did a really good job identifying the five areas. And one of them was first of all was communication. And then it was trust and respect for a sense of urgency, professionalism, and image. Because they know that they're not always doing the right things. So we talk about these things but it's like we've got to leave these things and we've got to day in day out. And so we're working on some things this camp that's coming up. Every day has got a different theme. One day is communication and we're going to have morning briefings we're gonna have the evening meetings. And in the middle of the day we're going to train wrestling.

 

Laura:

[00:30:40] Mm-hmm. That's great. So I guess you're working with the coaches too on hitting kind of those those things as well is that right?

 

Matt:

[00:30:47] Yes.

 

Laura:

[00:30:48] Awesome. Well and I love on your Web site. As I was stalking you for this podcast. That's what my favorite things to do with really cool people. You had this really cool blog post titled A coach's prayer. And I love your heart to serve and to raise up your athletes and your kids I imagine. It's just awesome. And so since we're on this podcast you know we strive to get to kind of the heart of purpose in people's lives either through or beyond their performance. And I'd love you to address that specifically for us? Like how do you help the athletes that you coach or the coaches that you coach even? Like know that their identities not just wrapped up in their results at the end of the competition. Like how do you help them find that purpose beyond their performance?

 

Matt:

[00:31:28] Well I think a lot of those. You know every year since I've been the coach we go out to Oregon for our base camp. After the team is made I'll get the guys recovering for a week and resting up. And then we were gonna say like we're going to jumpstart things with conditioning. So I tell him we're going to go out and do a lot of strength conditioning we're not going to do a lot of mat work going to stay off the mat. But during those times you know we go take him whitewater rafting you know. I take him out in nature and we would do hikes. I mean I just think it's so important to get out and see what God created and just be in his. Because most of my athletes are urban men. They come from you know Chicago and New York and you know bigger cities. And so it's a really unique experience to get them out there. And I just had Ellis Coleman one of my athletes and his wife over for dinner and as his young daughter she's three and. I mean it's just I think it's just those type of things you know building relationships with your athletes one on one, small groups, small teams. But you know I mean as a national team coach I mean I've got 30 guys that are on national team. So it's hard to have those one on ones when you have those camps. So you've got to Ellis lives and down and I just invite them over a couple weeks ago. It’s like Hey what day it is when I come over dinner it's like I'm looking forward to this. Great! You know? And so it's stuff like that I mean I bought some lawn furniture that came from amazon I had to put it together. It is like Ikea put together stuff.

 

Laura:

[00:33:08] Oh yes. Like everything in our house.

 

Matt:

[00:33:11] This is basically like Ikea lawn furniture. You know I asked one of my guys you know hey you come over and I hand them a little screws. And he's putting them in and we're just having conversations. It's finding those times just where it's not scheduled is not planned. It's just you know how we put my furniture together come over for dinner. You know let's go for a hike. It's those things. And I did take a small group down in Mexico and that was great. And they got to see me interact with my daughter and her boyfriend. And every year when we go to camp in Oregon my daughter comes over. And they she brings the board games and we have a board game night with the team. And those things are really important. I think they go a long ways.

 

Laura:

[00:34:04] Yeah definitely. And I know you mentioned the hope sports builds a couple of times. If you guys aren't familiar with that hope sports is a great organization. They bring down athletes to build homes for the poor in Mexico. And it's really cool because you do this amazing thing for this family who you know has nothing. And it's just going to really completely change their lives their children's lives everything. But it impacts the athletes so much and a different type of relationship is built a different outlook on life is built. And it's just huge and I love that you took your whole team out there because that's an amazing way to bond as a team going through such a life changing experience together like that.

 

Matt:

[00:34:39] Yeah. And I do. I mean I love whitewater rafting you know and I don't take these guys down when I go down. But you know I'll get them out on a class three run and it will splash and giggle and have fun and you know. So I mean these guys like I said these guys they're most of them are scared of stuff like that. They're fearful. They're frightened. And going through life scared as is would have to be difficult. It would have to be really hard. I don't know why there's so much fear in young men these days. But I try to fix that somehow by creating these different opportunities to where they have to face their fears. Every time you challenge yourself you get stronger and you get less fearful of whatever it is. I think all those things carry over life.

 

Laura:

[00:35:33] I think you just hit the nail on the head. I think to face a fear that's outside of maybe your sport or where you during all the time is a great way to begin to learn how to do that. Because I've met so many people who try to put their fears off and pretend they don't exist and push them away. But then it just it's almost like it gets bigger you know. But when you face it and you deal with it and you begin to confront it it loses its power right. And so I think what you do is brilliant. Like getting them kind of over that and maybe something outside of their normal realms. So they learn that they can face these things like can overcome these things. Because you can't be brave unless you're first afraid. Right? I mean we're not fearless we're terrified people but we choose to be brave and like confront that. I think that's awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:36:11] Yeah. And you know we climb a couple of 14 hours here in Colorado that for the listeners that's a 14000 foot mountain. And I think there's like 50 of them and we've done a couple real easy ones you know. But I've had these guys talk about you know like I started the character development leadership and character development show on YouTube. So I'm doing a podcast as well. And it's on my coach Matt Lindland YouTube channel. But you know and that was really. I did that because one of the guys said coach you'd never give us a leadership training. I was like OK let's see. I sent you out to the Marines for their leadership training course. When I walked to the top of a 14000 ft mountain together with me leading the way the whole way let's say. And I just kept going through these things. But you know what I'll do more stuff for you than help you with leadership. And that's what we're going to tackle in this next week coming up in our camp. Is we're going to talk about some some different ways to become a leader. And I think those five areas that are athletes identified are five areas that we can really hone in on and develop leadership through those areas for sure.

 

Laura:

[00:37:23] Oh yeah. Be great. Well, where can we follow you online to kind of continue to be inspired and encouraged. And led by you because you're just awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:37:33] MLinland just @mlindland. My first initial last name on Instagram. That's part of the one that I can deal with the most. But I think the best thing would be in coach Matt Lindland YouTube channel. That's where I'm doing a leadership show. I'm putting up some clips.

 

Laura:

[00:37:49] So awesome. I'll make sure to link all those things in the show notes so people can find you there. But I do have to ask you one thing before we go. You've tried so many different things. Have you ever jumped off a 10 meter platform?

 

Matt:

[00:38:00] Yeah of course.

 

Laura:

[00:38:01] OK. Well good. So we can do synchro now.

 

Matt:

[00:38:03] I did. OK. So I did it. I did it gainer off it.

 

Laura:

[00:38:06] Oh you see. I love it. Not only do you jump you do a gainer off of it. This is awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:38:11] Then I did a full game where I landed on my feet. Then I was like OK I'm going to do a one and a half. And I landed on my side and lost like all my life. Puerto Rico at the Olympic Training Center in Puerto Rico. You ever get that one.

 

Laura:

[00:38:28] No I haven't.

 

Matt:

[00:38:29] Oh my gosh it was. I barely got to the side of the pool because I couldn't breathe. But not quite went out but yeah. And then in Lincoln when my first year as a coach it was so fun. I'll tell you the story and then we'll go. So there's the platform up there in Lincoln in their pool. And so I got one of those folding mats that you know like the gym issues and they fold?

 

Laura:

[00:38:53] Oh no. Did you set up a slip and slide?

 

Matt:

[00:38:55] Aaaah! You know what it is!

 

Laura:

[00:38:58] Of course of 10 meter?

 

Matt:

[00:39:00] Oh yeah!

 

Laura:

[00:39:01] Oh nice. So what did you. Did you just dive or did you flip?

 

Matt:

[00:39:04] Oh yeah. We did everything. We got. You could get a up way across the pool side of that 10 meter. And the security guard pulls me in the next day and said Matt we need to talk. Because he pulls me in his office he shows me the video he goes my eyes only no worry.

 

Laura:

[00:39:26] Oh my God. OK. Next time I come up to Colorado Springs I'm calling you. And we are going diving together or you're taking me whitewater rafting or climbing a mountain or something.

 

Matt:

[00:39:35] Let me know. I would love to take you down the Royal Gorge. I've got a boat here. I've got a I've got a raft. I got a couple of kayaks and.

 

Laura:

[00:39:42] I'm not going to lie. I would probably be scared but I think it would be awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:39:45] It is scary. And like you can do it. It's the most rafting section in America. Everybody does it. But. Not everybody does it my style.

 

Laura:

[00:39:58] Well I'm sure that would be exciting. So I will take you up on that hopefully one day soon. That's really cool. Well Matt thank you so much for coming on for sharing all your wisdom, your heart with us, your stories. We really appreciate it.

 

Matt:

[00:40:10] My pleasure thank you so much.

 

Laura:

[00:40:13] Isn't he just incredible. I mean aside from all the things that I learned about his career I think it's just amazing how through all of it he remains unwaveringly committed to the character and leadership development of his team. To be so accomplished yet to still have the humility to find his worth and his integrity. It's just amazing. So many thanks to Matt for joining us today and I hope you get a chance to check out his youtube channel. Coach Matt Lindland. Matt is doing amazing things in the leadership development of athletes and he just has so much wisdom about how we not only grow as competitors but as people. Looking to improve their athletic performance with purpose? I'm offering a free live masterclass where I'll teach you how to improve your athletic performance without spending more hours in the gym. If you're ready for change and you want to take your performance to the next level then I want you to go and sign up at LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass. That's LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass to sign up for my free live masterclass on improving your athletic performance. I'll see you there. Be sure to join us next week as we have Olympic sprinter and bobsledder Lauren Williams joining us. On behalf of hope sports. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for tuning in and have a great week. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and access the complete archives please visit HopeSports.org.

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About This Episode

The youngest of nine kids, Dan Jansen was no stranger to tagging along, and in rural Wisconsin that usually meant to the ice. He got on his first pair of skates as a toddler and whizzed around frozen lakes and ponds. He tried other sports over the years, but always came back to skating where he was unmatched in speed for his age. In 1984 at only 18 years old, Jansen went to his first Olympics in Sarajevo and fondly remembers the care-free experience. Because he was relatively unknown, there was no pressure to reach the podium and he could fully enjoy the opening and closing ceremonies, the camaraderie between athletes, and the magic of the games. His goal was to be in the top ten fastest times in the 500 meter event and he ended up coming in fourth, just barely missing bronze. Dan returned home elated and proud of his finish at his first Olympics, but, for the first time, was faced with public perception and media scrutiny. For while his expectations were exceeded, others appeared disappointed that he didn’t medal at the games.

Knowing the podium was within reach, Dan poured even more into his training. He won the World Championship in 1988 and was favored to win in the 500m that winter at the Olympics games in Calgary. “Going in favored to win is one of the hardest things an athlete can do,” recalls Jansen. The awe of the games was long gone, as he was down to business, focused on his race, eyes on gold. Despite the fact that he was skating incredibly that week, there was something weighing heavy on his mind. Back home his older sister, Jane, had been battling leukemia for over a year. After receiving rounds of chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant, she was in stable condition when Dan bid her goodbye before leaving for Calgary. But his dad, who had been with him at the games, was called back home before Dan’s race to be with her as she took a turn for the worse. On the morning of the race, February 14, Dan got a call at 6:00 am that she had passed away.

Racked by the shock of her dead, Dan barely managed to eat breakfast before returning to his room and collapsing into tears. Four hours before the start he summoned the strength to put on his uniform and lace up his skates. There was much debate over whether or not he should even compete, but knowing that Jane was his biggest fan, the family assured him that it’s what she would have wanted. Stepping on to the ice, his legs felt like lead, exhausted by the emotions of the day. He did his best to loosen up, but stepped up to the starting line feeling disoriented--and crashed just 100 meters into the 500 meter race.

Three days later, once the initial shock had worn off, Dan found himself on the ice again preparing for the 1000 meter race. He considered leaving between the two events, but his family and coach encouraged him to finish his races before returning. As he stepped on to the ice, he felt more physically prepared, but his heart was still with his family. Again, he fell on a turn and recalls, “I just wanted to be home.” He got off the ice, packed his bag, and was home that evening without any goodbyes, not caring in the least the outcome.

When he was twelve his dad once told him, “there’s more to life than skating in little circles,” and that never felt more true. Dan took time to be with his family after his sister’s death and went back to skating because, “I just didn’t know what else to do.” He buried himself in training and competing and even won a World Cup that year, but admitted that he skated to avoid facing the pain. Wanting to distance himself from his reality, he enrolled in the University of Calgary and intended to train there as well. When he arrived the following fall and stepped on to the same track, all of the trauma of race day came flooding back. Even though it was a year later, Dan finally had to wrestle with his grief.

Dan arrived at the 1992 Winter Olympics in Albertville on the heels of a new World Record he set while dominating the international circuit across Europe. He refers to the 92 Games as the most “puzzling” of his Olympics. Perhaps it was overconfidence or over-resting, but he lost his typical spark and missed the podium in both events. Befuddled and frustrated, Dan left the games and again faced media scrutiny for his performance. Reporters even referred to him as “The Big Choke” of the games as, once again, he didn’t race to his potential.

On his way to the 1996 Olympics in Lillehamer, Dan got married and welcome his daughter, Jane, named after his sister. The five fastest times ever skated in the 500 meters all belonged to him, so truly, this was a race against himself. He fully expected the journey to come to a happy ending, but pushed himself too hard and caught the edge of his skate on a turn causing a wobble that would, again, cost him a medal. Despite his initial frustration, Jansen was in a different position mentally. “I thought to myself, ‘it was one place that you slipped, it doesn’t mean you are not skating well.’”, he said. He knew that public perception would be relentless about his loss, but he could still walk away proud of his career even without an Olympic medal. He walked into the 1000 meter race, the final professional race of his life, knowing that if he did his best, he could retire happy. He had seized the power to define success for himself. When he crossed the finish line and saw the World Record time, he knew that this race would finally deliver that long awaited medal. Even his rivals were thrilled for him, one pulling him aside to say, “It’s about time.” As he stood at the top of the podium soaking in the National Anthem, he recalled all of the people who helped him along the way to this moment - the trainers, coaches, friends, and family--especially his sister Jane.

Leaving Lillehamer, “it was like a weight off of my shoulders,” he says. He may have retired, but he did not slow down. The Dan Jansen Foundation was soon established to help support non-medical costs for families with loved ones battling cancer. Everything from hospital stays, to food, to transportation - Dan knew first hand what a toll cancer takes on an entire family. He continues to advocate and fundraise for research for leukemia as well as speak around the world. “If you use your sport to make you a better person, then you’ve won,” he says. Through the ups and downs, victories and pitfalls, Dan’s perseverance shaped his character and has become his legacy.
Find out more about the Dan Jansen Foundation and follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

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About This Episode

Before most people could doggy paddle, Dana Vollmer was swimming competitively. The daughter of a swim coach, she was in the water at such an early age that she cannot even explicitly remember learning how. By age eleven she was swimming year round and at age twelve she stepped on to the block at her first Olympic trials. A self described “feisty competitor”, Dana always focused on her times, never her age, and was frustrated to not make the team that year. Her father gently reminded her that, although she took 49th place, that meant that 51 other elite athletes had just been beaten by a twelve year old.

In the wake of the Olympic trials, Dana decided to train even harder, with her hopes set on the 2004 games in Athens. One afternoon during training when she was 14, her heart rate soared and wouldn’t slow down. This happened several more times and prompted a trip to a cardiologist where it was discovered that she had an extra electrical pathway in her heart. She had immediate surgery to correct the issue, but still had other markers for a genetic heart disorder that was known to cause sudden death in young athletes. It was the advice of her doctors that she give up swimming entirely.

Weighing Dana’s dreams with the potentially tragic outcome was incredibly difficult. But at the end of the day, “my parents did not want fear to control my life,” says Dana. They decided to let their daughter continue doing what she loved, but in the safest way possible. That meant her mother sat poolside at every practice with a defibrillator clenched in her hands in the event that her daughter’s heart stopped mid-race. Year after year the risks lingered over her as she swam. It wasn’t until she interviewed her mother for a medical research paper in college that Dana truly understood her mom’s position. “She managed to shield her fear from me so that I didn’t carry it,” says Dana. Her mother used to check on her at night to make sure she was still breathing, didn’t ever want to her to anything scary or startling, and, quite literally, held her daughter’s life in her hand at every meet.

Putting health concerns aside, at age sixteen Dana stepped back on to the block at another Olympic trials. This time, however, she was older, more mature, and learned how to focus on just her race. Not only did she make the team, but won Olympic gold in the 4x200 relay and set a new World Record. She headed home overwhelmed, proud, and straight into the halls of a typical high school. “It felt like half the school loved me for what I had done -- and half hated me,” she says. She struggled with how to be herself--an athlete and a normal teenager--within the public eye. A disc injury in her back completely threw her training for the year and added another component of uncertainty. Eager to move on from the awkward season she was in, she graduated high school a year early and headed to the University of Florida. Amidst a new team, new coaches, and new friends, she felt even greater pressure to live up to her reputation. The mismatch she felt with the training program and the staff compelled her to transfer to Cal-Berkeley after just one year.

Despite the improved fit at Cal-Berkeley, she was still grappling internally with her interpretation of other people’s expectations and with her fragmented identity. At her third Olympic trials in 2008, “I was in tears behind my goggles before I even swam,” she shares. The World Record holder failed to make the Olympic team in every single one of her events. Ashamed and disappointed, Dana went to stay with a friend, hoping to just disappear. Two of her coaches, Terry McKeever and Milt Nelms, recognized that she needed to get away from competition and gain some perspective. Milt founded a “Learn to Swim” program in Fiji, an island nation with huge drowning rates, and invited Dana to join on an upcoming trip. She spent time teaching others how to swim and said, “It was amazing to realize that it wasn’t all about Olympic level swimming.” For once it wasn’t about proving herself or finishing with a certain time - it was about doing something for others that made a difference. She specifically remembers a final open water relay race from island to island with the students. In the midst of the beautiful ocean, with the fish and the sky and new friends, far outside of her bubble, she remembered that she truly just loved to swim. And she wasn’t ready to be done.

She returned to California with a fresh understanding that it was her mentality, not her physicality that needed a reform. Other areas of her life began to get the attention that they needed. She worked with a therapist, got married, sorted out food sensitivities, and balanced her training. “I took a look at my entire life, realizing that everything impacts how you race and how you train. All areas need to be happy to be the best athlete that you can be,” she says. And the results spoke for themselves. At the 2012 Olympics in London Dana won three gold medals and set two more World Records. In retrospect, Dana says that she wouldn’t be the athlete she is today if it weren’t for missing the Olympic team in 2008.

She briefly considered retiring after such a successful 2012 games, but the momentum was too alluring. Although she made the World Championships the following year, nagging shoulder and back issues needed to be tended to. She never actually signed retirement papers, but decided to take a break to see what life was like outside of competitive athletics. She studied architecture and design, bought a house in the suburbs, and became pregnant with her first son. During the final eight weeks of her pregnancy she was put on strict bedrest. Sitting still was brutal, and after giving birth she hopped back in the water to get back in shape the only way she knew how. The 2016 Olympic trials were only a year away, but she committed to train for them. “It wasn’t about the goal, it was about the lifestyle I wanted to have,” she says. She knew that she was the best version of herself when she live an intentionally balanced life - and that included swimming.

Dana was elated to make the 2016 Olympic team, but heading back to training camp as a mom had its unique challenges. Not many swimmers had families and she had to advocate for time with her son and a training regimen that fit her postpartum. Again, Dana medaled large in Rio de Janeiro, taking home gold, silver, and bronze medals. But participating as a mother changed the way that she related with her teammates, trained, and viewed competition. Out of her own longing for community, Dana has started the Power of Mom movement to help give a voice, encouragement, and motivation to elite athletes who are mothers and may feel isolated in their sport. She even took her family to Denmark to spend time training with one of her former rivals who also recently had a daughter, but still has Olympic dreams for 2020.

At each competition, Dana still feels the results-based mindset start to creep back in. She has to resist the temptation to analyze others’ expectations and constantly let go of the need to prove herself. “I always have to step back and realize that this is about my journey, racing, and doing what I love,” she says. She believes that there is a faster butterfly technique out there and is determined to discover it as she aspires to the Olympics in Beijing. These days, however, training looks like family trips to camps, workouts around her kids’ schedules, and swimming in the open ocean. But now, more than ever, her life is full of things she loves.

For more about Dana and to be a part of her journey, check out her website and follower her on Instagram.

 

Follow online:

 

IG: @dana.vollmer

Danavollmer.com

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Laura:

[00:00:05] Welcome to the hope sports podcast where elite athletes recount the challenges and experience that have shaped them both as competitors and as people. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. This week's guest was just 12 years old when she swam at her first Olympic trials. And as of today she's won a total of 32 medals in major international competition including seven Olympic medals. I'm so excited to have Dana Vollmer with us today sharing about the ups and downs of her incredible career. She has swam through a life threatening heart condition falling short of making the Olympic team mid career and becoming a mother to two beautiful boys. And still she swims on inspiring us with her optimism and aspirations and desire to unite a very unique set of athletes.

 

[00:00:51] And if this conversation resonates with you and you're looking to dig deeper into exploring purpose and performance then I have a really great resource for you that I'll tell you more about after we hear from Diana. I'm glad you're here. Now let's dive on in. Dana Vollmer welcome to the hope sports podcast are so excited to have you on today.

 

Dana:

[00:01:07] Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

 

Laura:

[00:01:09] Now for those listening who may not know too much about you. Can you kind of tell us how you got your start in swimming.?

 

Dana:

[00:01:15] Yeah I actually was in my first competition when I was 4. For my mom was a swim coach. I don't actually remember learning how to swim. I have just always been around the water and always had a love for being in there.

 

Laura:

[00:01:28] Oh that's awesome. I don't think I could swim at 4. Not at all. Not even strokes.

 

Dana:

[00:01:31] Yeah. So then it was just a summer league team until I was eleven and then I transition to year-round swimming. And when we moved down to Texas and actually made my first Olympic trials at twelve and then still competing today. So many many years later. OK so first Olympic trials at twelve years old. I mean did you even understand the hugeness of that.

 

Laura:

[00:01:48] OK so first Olympic trials at twelve years old. I mean did you even understand the hugeness of that? What was that like for you?

 

Dana:

[00:01:58] You know I don't think I fully comprehended what it meant to make that time standard to be at the Olympic trials. But I mean I was feisty competitive little thing and just always trying to get best times. And that was the gold time that was set in front of me. And when I was a little 12year old walking around with her board on deck getting everyone to sign it and in all of everyone.

 

Laura:

[00:02:20] That's awesome!

 

Dana:

[00:02:23] And. But yet I remember walking away so mad that I didn't make an Olympic team and I got 49th place and.

 

Laura:

[00:02:30] Oh man.

 

Dana:

[00:02:31] My dad had to remind me that 51 women just got beat by a 12year old and sick to go back home and train. And so it's come full circle now that I see these youngsters coming up and beating me at the competition.

 

Laura:

[00:02:46] Oh man. That is cool. That is cool. OK well it's also just two years after that you're 14 and you get a kind of scary health diagnosis. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

 

Dana:

[00:02:55] Yeah I was in the middle of training and my heart rate spiked to 250 and we couldn't get it to come back down. And it actually happened a couple of times. Once when I was sitting on the couch watching TV. Once when I was jumping rope. Once when I was in the pool. And so we immediately went to the cardiologist and it turned out that I had an extra electrical pathway in my heart. And so we ended up during surgery they went in through my from your artery and cauterize it wasn't open heart surgery or anything. They cauterize that electrical pathway and I didn't have that racing heartbeat anymore. But through testing, they had seen random patterns of what they call long QT syndrome. And so that that was the scariest part for us. That's known as one of the leading causes of sudden death in athletes.

 

Laura:

[00:03:42] Oh Wow.

 

Dana:

[00:03:43] And luckily now all these years later they now have a genetic test for that and it turns out that I don't have it.

 

Laura:

[00:03:50] Wow!

 

Dana:

[00:03:51] So that was a huge relief to us. We just found out actually through prenatal testing for my second child that I officially didn't have that genetic marker.

 

Laura:

[00:03:59] Wow. Because after that your mom had to carry a defibrillator to every single practice and competition you went to right? Like just in case?

 

Dana:

[00:04:07] Yeah. Just in case something happened. I refused to touch it as a 14year old. It was just too scary I think for me to process. So I really felt the strength that my mom had and taking that on and letting me still train and letting me compete. And she was right there clutching this defibrillator hoping that nothing happened and luckily nothing ever did.

 

Laura:

[00:04:28] Well how did you guys make that decision? Because I can't. I mean you're a mom now too. I can't imagine being faced with that for my kid. I mean can you kind of walk me through those perspectives like what were or was it even not a question for you? I don't. I don't know.

 

Dana:

[00:04:42] Well for me the 14year old of course was no I will always swim. But I think you know my parents had many conversations about not letting fear control my life. And we couldn't be in a bubble. And they were gonna do everything that they could to make me safe but allow me to do what I loved. And I. To my core loved swimming and training and racing and so they did everything they could. And that meant being right next to me in training holding onto a defibrillator.

 

Laura:

[00:05:15] Wow! What an amazing kind of courageous move from your parents. That says a lot about them. I think and I know you said you did in college you did like a research paper. We were talking about illness or something. And you interviewed your mom and said it was the first time you knew how scared she actually was?

 

Dana:

[00:05:29] Yeah. I was doing a medical anthropologyclass on the different perspectives of illness and I decided to write it on my mom. And me she shielded so much of her fear from me. And she didn't want me to know how scary of a decision this was and didn't want me training constantly thinking if I was putting my life at risk. And so just hearing how many times she came in in the middle of the night to see if I was still breathing. She was terrified to let me do anything scary that it might put my heart into some strange rhythm. Just how much fear she had. I just never really understood.

 

Laura:

[00:06:08] Wow wow. I think parenting is probably the hardest job on earth right.

 

Dana:

[00:06:13] Yes. Yes. It is.

 

Laura:

[00:06:15] So OK. It wasn't long after that diagnosis and the decision to keep going. That you made your first Olympic team as just a 16year old in Athens Greece. And you won a gold medal there in the 4 x 200meter free relay. I mean did you. Obviously, you're competitive and you expected to make the Olympic team at 12 so I'm guessing you fully thought this was possible?

 

Dana:

[00:06:35] Most definitely. That was the goal. That was the plan. I felt like you know while the heart episode was really scary. It didn't necessarily take me out of the sport for very long. And so I just kept training and my coaches always really good. About saying like it's the same lane it's the same block. It's you know just get up there swim your own race. Do it you know how to do. Don’t focus on other people and. At the Olympic trials, I was actually next to the American record holder at the time. And I just I can vividly remember that race more so than a lot of other races. Just making that first Olympic team being 16 I just. I remember being very overwhelmed a lot of the time? I just kind of went with the flow tried to copy what all these other amazing Olympians were doing.

 

[00:07:22] And even when we won the gold and you realize that you just broke an ancient world record. And got that first gold medal. And you can watch videos. It's like every couple seconds I copy what Natalie Coughlin did. She puts her arms up in screen and I have my arms do the same. I just was so overwhelmed. So excited. So proud of the journey. And I don't think I had. Everything had seemed like it had fallen into place kind of along that path. At that time.

 

Laura:

[00:07:52] Oh that's so cool. Did you get to walk an opening and closing ceremonies and things too?

 

Dana:

[00:07:57] I didn't. So opening it is like I mean they say what you stand on your feet for like eight hours? And the night before we start competing the next day.

 

Laura:

[00:08:05] Oh you're the first day? OK.

 

Dana:

[00:08:07] Yeah. So I have not. I actually haven't ever walked in opening ceremonies.

 

Laura:

[00:08:12] Oh no!

 

Dana:

[00:08:13] But I did get to do closing in 2012. So.

 

Laura:

[00:08:17] Oh good. OK well, we've got one in there. That's good. So what happened after Athens?

 

Dana:

[00:08:23] After Athens and you know it's part of that identity crisis. You come home you just you were a gold medalist. And then you have to go back to high school. And so I mean half. I did feel like half a high school loved me for what I did. Half a high school seemed to hate me for what I did. And you're just I don't know I felt like I was you know I had homeschooled going into that. So I only did one year of high school has actually ended up graduating a year early. And it was just a struggle of who am I as a person. Who am I as this Olympic athlete now at 16years old and how do you make mistakes. How do you figure things out when you feel a little more in the public eye. And you know I took some time off. I actually injured my back at that point when I started coming back from training I had a disk injury and. I just I felt like I was kind of floundering and so I didn't really know where I was at home. So I decided to graduate a year early and I went off to the University of Florida for my first year of college.

 

Laura:

[00:09:32] So you were like 17 when you went off to college?

 

Dana:

[00:09:34] Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:09:35] Wow. That's all so overwhelming I would think.

 

Dana:

[00:09:38] It is another you know it's a hard step to then also go into college and you're supposed to be this amazing Olympic athlete. And trying to live up to that every day is sometimes really challenging. And the coach and I just didn't really see eye to eye. The training program was different than I would like. And so then I ended up transferring over to Cal Berkeley and I loved. I loved the school. I loved the program. The coach and I obviously I still train at Cal Berkeley today. So something's working. And it was I think going into 2008 I found myself really struggling with other people's expectations. And or my interpretation of other people's expectations that I was supposed to qualify for so many events. And you know for the US it's not just qualifying then you're expected to medal. And I just I Crum I absolutely crumbled under that. And one event I walked out and I was in tears in my goggles before I even swam the events.

 

Laura:

[00:10:39] Is this about Olympic trials?

 

Dana:

[00:10:40] Olympic trials in 2008. Yeah. And. I miss it. I miss it and every single one of my events one as close as 1100th of a second.

 

Laura:

[00:10:51] Oh that's so heartbreaking.

 

Dana:

[00:10:53] You can beat yourself up about it all day long. But now I feel like perspective has changed so much that I don't think I would be the athlete I am today without having gone through 2008.

 

Laura:

[00:11:05] I feel like I hear that a lot. Like it really stinks to go through those moments but it seems to make you stronger and more capable of things later. But like how in that moment of just kind of crumbling under that? Like how did you walk that out and how did you come back from that? You know is it the people around you? Is it you having to change the way you were thinking about stuff? Like what I guess. How did you walk out?

 

Dana:

[00:11:30] Yeah. I mean there are very important people. I went home I stayed at one of my best friends houses that in my hometown in Granbury. And she just kind of helped me with perspective. Her job her kids. And then it was honestly Teri McKeeverand my other coach Milton Nelms. And Teri knew that I couldn't just go home and sulk. That was not going to help me get through this. And so Milton Nelms actually runs a learn to swim program in Fiji.

 

Laura:

[00:12:04] Oh wow.

 

Dana:

[00:12:04] And they have one of the highest drowning rates in the world for an island nation. And so they. It kind of took me out of my own bubble. They helped me fly to Fiji and we got to teach. It's kind of like a community college and you teach them how to teach kids how to swim. So they go out into their villages and teach kids how to swim. And it was just amazing to kind of realize it's not all about Olympic level swimming. I was helping save lives with the knowledge that I already had. I didn't have to go out and prove anything else about my swimming. That I already had the skills to make other people's lives better. And it was just an absolutely incredible experience to be helping them. But then it was still that place when I thought about my own swimming. It was like an instant weight on my chest of how am I supposed to come back? How do I face the team? How do I face my coach? How do I come back to training in a way that I want to? And we actually did an open water race when I was in Fiji. It was at 18K relay from one island to another. You could see fish and coral and I mean it was beautiful. And to me, that was the moment when I realized that I still love the water. I love to swim. And that was the core of it. And what I really needed to work on was the mental side of the sport.

 

Laura:

[00:13:27] I love that you just like you said got out of your bubble. Did something. Saw that there was more to this whole swimming thing than just your races. And then kind of recaptured that love and that passion for it. That's so awesome. And so things did change. Going into London. I mean you went into the 2012 London Olympics and walked away with three gold medals and two world records. I'm guessing that was a little bit different of an experience.

 

Dana:

[00:13:51] Yes. Yes. completely. I mean there's so much work that we put in in those 4years. And to make me feel like almost a different woman walking out for the 2012 Olympic trials and we explored nutrition. It turned out that I had many food sensitivities that were really hindering my training and my recovery and then the mental side of it.

 

Laura:

[00:14:12] How interesting.

 

Dana:

[00:14:15] I actually enjoyed seeing a normal therapist. Not a sports psychologist. I always felt like they somehow were trying to just get me to race better. And it was nice to just really take a look at my entire life. That everything impacts how you train how you race and all areas need to be happy. To be the best athlete that we can be. And I got married in 2011 to my husband and.

 

Laura:

[00:14:42] He's a swimmer too right?

 

Dana:

[00:14:43] He was young he swam for Stanford. He also just missed the Olympic team in 2008. So I think that was a good bonding place for us to find strength together. And. Yeah. It just walking out there you know some of the sports psychology training though was like you have set yourself up to where if you have a terrible race you're still making an Olympic team. And that was kind of our motto in training was that it's it's not that I need to expect way more of myself than I've ever done to make an Olympic team. It's like OK if I have a cold I can still do this I can still get up and make this team. And yeah I mean even at the Olympics when I walked out. I was like OK Just swim your own race. Just try not to screw anything up and we should be good.

 

Laura:

[00:15:34] And you were. I mean did you three gold medals and you already had a gold medal so you have four gold medals now. I mean did you think about retiring at that point?

 

Dana:

[00:15:43] It's always one of those really hard things where. Honestly leading up to 2012? Yes. I assumed that I was done after 2012 I wanted to go out with a bang and go out at the pinnacle of your career. And then it's always one of those how do you retire when you're at the top of your game? Like you just had the best performance you've ever had in your life. And now you're supposed to walk away? And so that was hard. Not really hard because I was just so excited after winning three golds to just get back in it and train. And then it kind of dawns on you that OK it is another four years. And the time commitment is huge. The effort level is huge. You can't just kind of skirt by on what you've done before and expect to make an Olympic team. And I was able to make the world championships team that next summer. But I kind of been dealing with shoulder issues the back injury had never fully gone away. So at that point, I did decide quote-unquote “to retire?” because I didn't actually sign my retirement papers. Part of me just could never sign the actual papers. So Teri told me to just go with that something in me might not be done and let's just respect that.

 

[00:16:51] So I stepped away from the sport. Decided I wanted to see what life was like as not a competitive athlete. I went to school for architecture and design. We bought a house in the suburbs and decided that we wanted to start our family. And so yeah in 2015 my youngest or my oldest now Arlen was born. And it wasn't a very interesting process of being pregnant as you know. I can't say I'm one that loved being pregnant. I felt very out of control with my body and we ended up being on bed rest for eight weeks and.

 

Laura:

[00:17:31] Oh my that's a long time.

 

Dana:

[00:17:33] Yeah. Yeah. I made it through like all ten seasons of Friends. I honestly I think that that was when I decided to train again. Because I could not imagine another day of sitting in my bed.

 

Laura:

[00:17:46] Wow. So you hadn't been training for a while?

 

Dana:

[00:17:49] No.

 

Laura:

[00:17:49] You’re Pregnant. You're on bed rest. And you're like I have got to get back in the water.

 

Dana:

[00:17:53] Yeah. well I mean that's the only way that I really know how to get back in shape and how to push myself. I've never been a runner.

 

Laura:

[00:18:00] So then it was. It just kind of I'm going to get back in the water just to get back in shape after this or you want to do like compete?

 

Dana:

[00:18:06] Yeah. Well, I don't think I knew how to separate the two yet. I need to have a big goal to get myself to kind of do the daily grind of training.

 

Laura:

[00:18:15] Totally relate to that. Yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:18:16] Yeah. So basically I set that goal OK let's see if I can make the 2016 Olympic team. I mean that's right around the corner. But it was obviously a huge goal and it kept me going to get up in the mornings and to push myself. But deep down I think what really helped me through the process was yeah that was a big goal. But the ultimate goal was to be the best mom that I could be. To feel in control of my body. To get back in shape to have the lifestyle of running around with the boys that I want to have. And I think that's what made it to me that one of the healthiest places for me that I've ever been in the sport. It wasn't necessarily about the goal it was about the daily lifestyle that I wanted to have.

 

Laura:

[00:19:05] Oh that's so cool. So then what. I mean because you ended up making the Rio team and what was it like going to an Olympics this time with a toddler in tow?

 

Dana:

[00:19:15] Well I wish he honestly. I wish he was more in tow than he was allowed to be. And so that that was actually really hard. Of course, on one hand, I'm thrilled. I was absolutely stoked. I made an Olympic team. I got to compete again. But then it's also you know there hadn't been many moms in the sport of swimming yet. So training camp technically he wasn't allowed to be at training camp. And I had to sit down with the coaches and with USA Swimming staff and talk about like I can't do that. I can't just go away for a month and leave my child. And so at first, it was agreed that he should come for two weekends. Which was even obviously daunting to me at the time too. I mean I literally was never by myself.

 

Laura:

[00:19:58] Right. And it's like an appendage right? Like you’re missing an arm or something walking in there without them. Yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:20:04] A huge piece of my heart was gone. And to be in a hotel room by myself and then go to training with girls that I hadn't trained with before. With coaches, I hadn't worked with before. My. Like the person that does my weights isn't allowed to be there. The massage person like they have an Olympic staff that kind of starts to take care of everything. But it was an incredibly lonely place to be. And it was a really hard trying to balance that. This side of me that just missed my family so much. And this daily routine that I had developed that I had loved. And to kind of have to create an absolutely new one for 2016 Olympic Games. I mean the Olympics is the biggest meet that you get to go to. And I had to completely change what I had done to get there. And a.

 

Laura:

[00:20:58] And like a limited amount of time too. Right?

 

Dana:

[00:21:00] Yeah. Yeah. We only have four weeks between the Olympic trials and the Olympics. And honestly, before being a mom I would have said like oh it's only four weeks of your life. Like you can go you can be with the team and just fully commit. And then you get to go home and be with your family. Four weeks is just a really long time to be away from your kids. And so it is a goal of mine going in 2020 to better work with USA Swimming. I feel like they will. I think like you said it was just such a short time span to try to figure out how we make this work. About how I can see more of the kids and have more of my support system there for me going into 2020.

 

Laura:

[00:21:41] That's great. So I mean you won a gold silver and a bronze in Rio right?

 

Dana:

[00:21:47] Yeah. I mean I just wanted to get the trifecta.

 

Laura:

[00:21:49] Yeah. There you go. Yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:21:50] I mean one of everything.

 

Laura:

[00:21:52] I mean this is incredible so you had four weeks. You revamped your entire routine. You're flying solo. It was hard. And you were still so successful. I mean did you just keep going after that? Or did you. Because I know now you have your son Ryker who was born in 2017 right? Was the plan to keep going after this again? Or you know. How is this? What are logistics like here?

 

Dana:

[00:22:14] Yeah. I mean it's again I feel like it's a cycle every four years. Again I was successful in 2016 and I had created more of a daily life that I loved. Like going in after Arlen was born and it just felt so much healthier of a routine of a lifestyle of a focus. It wasn't just pushed my body till it breaks because that's what you have to do. I learned a lot more about recovery and it just felt like a lifestyle that I could sustain. So I figured why not. Why not try and so I trained. From after 2016, I did train through being pregnant with Ryker. I actually swam at a swim meet when I was 28 pregnant.

 

Laura:

[00:22:56] Oh my Goodness! Wow.

 

Dana:

[00:22:58] That was obviously much more for just the joy and fun of racing than the actual time.

 

Laura:

[00:23:05] Right.

 

Dana:

[00:23:06] But I enjoyed it. We got to do a Gender reveal with what color suit I wore.

 

Laura:

[00:23:10] Oh that's so fun.

 

Dana:

[00:23:11] So it was yeah it was really fun. And then I actually ended up having the same contractions that started at 30 weeks that they did with my first child with Arlen. But this time they didn't want me on bed rest. They just wanted me to have limited activity but not actually be in my bed like I was before. And so it's a little scary that time just being moving around a lot more and having all the contractions. Just trying to listen to my doctors and Ryker came at 37 weeks. So Arlen was at 41. And so he was just as tall as Arlen but hadn't really gotten to put on all that baby fat yet so it just seems so little at first. But then honestly it's different with two. And I can't imagine with you having four and trying to train.

 

Laura:

[00:24:03] I know. Crazy. For crazy people.

 

Dana:

[00:24:07] But you know I think I expected it to be the same. I think I put more almost more expectations on myself that here.

 

Laura:

[00:24:14] Coz you've done it once.

 

Dana:

[00:24:15] Yeah I had done it before. It's supposed to be the same. And now I know and so it's supposed to be easier. That is so not true.

 

Laura:

[00:24:22] Yeah. My first child slept through the night. And people just laughed at me and they're like Oh wait till you have a second line. Yeah. She didn’t sleep through the night at all. So yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:24:31] Yeah. And so of course it was like my older ones stopped napping as soon as the second one was born. And well you know just being up again and nursing. And then not getting to nap when he naps because the older one was awake. And trying to figure out how to get groceries in my house with two kids. And it's. There's been a whole new set of challenges. And honestly, I feel like just this past fall I've really kind of gotten more of a routine and figured out more of what I how I'm gonna make this work.

 

Laura:

[00:25:03] That's great. That's great. Now I know on your website you said you found a new love for something. I think we've heard a little bit about that and you said for years you let it define your life through your success or failure in the pool. But now it's your family that matters most. I know you went to Fiji rekindle that and now you have your family. Like I guess how do you ever still get kind of bogged down or caught back up in that? I feel like we go through these seasons right? You kind of get it figured out and you think you're in a good place then you get kind of sucked back into that. Like you know that mindset where your result defined you. Like how do you check that how do you keep that at bay?

 

Dana:

[00:25:37] Yeah. I feel like it's it's not just something that you master. And it doesn't happen again like you said. Honestly, it's something that I feel come back before every competition and I have to work on that. It's like where do people expect me to be at this point. How do I prove the training that I've done that it's working? And how do I show that I can do this as a mom? And it's now I have to step back and you know this is about my journey. Like this is about just racing and figuring things out and figuring out what I love about still being in the sport. And it is a conscious reminder of having to let go of what I think other people are expecting of me. But I mean it's work. That's something that you have to be kind to train yourself to catch yourself in those mind brains. And to bring yourself back from that. But yeah it's not like I've just figured it out. It's something that I still work on and honestly you know it was Ryker was probably six months old. And I went to the Austin Grand Prix in January. And I had been kind of training a much smaller amount but I still felt fast. And it's one of those in your mind you always think like oh I got this and.

 

Laura:

[00:26:51] I love your self-confidence. It's awesome. I love it.

 

Dana:

[00:26:54] I went to a competition and it was one of those kinds of like rude awakenings of just you know hey I do love the sport. I haven't been able to get as much training. And it's one thing to just think you can stand up and perform with the best in the country. But that is something that takes a lot of dedication. A lot of hours. A lot of training. And I did let that get to me. And I didn't know what to kids why I was fighting so hard to make an Olympic team. You know I still struggling with kind of how 2016 went for me mentally. Like was I ready to go through that again being away from my family being away from my own support system? And then so I did end up taking some time away. And I was just working on strength training trying to figure out the training pieces that I really enjoyed. And that was when I saw it’s actually on Instagram that Jeanette Ottesen a swimmer from Denmark. A butterflier that's been in almost every international competition final with me in the Butterfly was having a baby girl and wanted to train for 2020. And it just felt like I just instantly had this bond with her and I mean we were friendly.

 

[00:28:10] I can't say we were very close friends but I mean we talked to competitions. And I instantly wrote her on Instagram as like I need to come to Denmark but can I please bring my boys? Can I come train with you? Can we try to figure out how moms train in this sport together? And it was just so inspiring for me to have another person that got it. And to get on that pool deck and talk to each other. How'd you sleep last night? Were your kids up all night? Were you stressed about this or that? And Do you have the power to change our training ourselves? And create what we wanted and each workout. And to talk about the hardships of getting stability back in your hits and getting your abs back. All these things that just your body changes so much and to have another person that was right there with me just meant the world to me. And that was when I started the movement to the power of mom. And I just really started looking at other athletes and other athletes stories. And how they manage dealing with kids and training. And being so inspired by all these other women that were also doing it and feeling like I wasn't so alone. Like we need we need to have a stronger voice and be heard by each other even to help motivate each other when it's hard.

 

Laura:

[00:29:28] And I love it. I mean I've followed you for a long time. But when I saw you start that power of mom thing it just it hit me. Because I feel very isolated like I totally understand what you're talking about because divers there tend to be younger. When I retired at 30 I was considered old and I didn't have kids or anything at that point. Now I'm here 10years older and four kids you know it's definitely not something anybody else is doing. And so to see that other people are doing that it makes you feel like you're not a crazy person. Like it's OK to have dreams. It's OK to be a mom and do these things and in fact, you can be even better. You know it's just so nice I'm so thankful that you created something and it is gonna make a big difference for so many of us.

 

Dana:

[00:30:04] Yeah I mean there's nothing worse than feeling lonely an isolated. And we find strength in each other. I find strength in your story. I find strength in Serena Williams. And Allyson Felix just having her little one. And it'll be amazing to have all of us chasing this dream together.

 

Laura:

[00:30:23] Yes I love it. You had your hashtag was Mama on a mission in 2016 and now it's to the power of mom. I love it. So what's next on your road to Tokyo 2020? I mean obviously, there's going to be competitions in between that. And are there any plans following Tokyo? More kids more swimming other adventures. Like what's on the plate for you?

 

Dana:

[00:30:43] So I just got back from a competition in Knoxville Tennessee earlier in January. And it's just kind of one of those there's the tier Pro Series circuit there's kind of a meet every month almost. And it's just kind of seeing where I'm at in training. Seeing what falls apart. What is feeling really strong? Continue to focus on that one reason why I think I'm still in the sport today is just that I know that there is a faster butterfly. It's not just that I need to train harder or more hours. It's like the physics of how we swim butterfly. I think we're still figuring out how to do it. And I love the learning process and the challenging to think outside the box. And technique and training. And I will be going to Tasmania for a training trip again. I've actually gone a couple of times so that's where the coach Milton Nelms and his amazing wife Shane Gould. She's a multi Olympian for Australia for swimming. And so that's where they live. And so we end up doing an Airbnb down there and we train in the ocean all the time. There is not a pool where you train in the way.

 

Laura:

[00:31:51] Is it freezing?

 

Dana:

[00:31:53] It is. I do have a wetsuit that I wear. I do get an occasionally just in my swimsuit just because the wetsuit does change your buoyancy and how you feel. So I try to challenge myself from time to time to get in. But as a swimmer, I do have a deep hatred of cold water.

 

Laura:

[00:32:12] I hear that from a lot of stories.

 

Dana:

[00:32:14] Yeah. Yeah the most of us. So I have the wetsuit on a lot. But we're really excited that Jeanette Ottesen and her husband and her little girl Billy nay are also going to come.

 

Laura:

[00:32:25] Oh so is your whole family going too?

 

Dana:

[00:32:27] My whole family is coming. My husband two boys and a friend of ours that's going to help us with the boys. And yeah. And then her and Jeanette and her husband and little girl and then she has two people that are coming with her as well.

 

Laura:

[00:32:41] That's so cool. That'll be wonderful.

 

Dana:

[00:32:43] Yeah. Yeah. So really excited about that. That's always a really good chunk of training. A lot of times I do it February before an Olympic year is a kind of always when I've done it before. And just feeling like my training needed a boost right now and kind of getting back into the sport. And I've loved this trip and it's always kind of brought the best out of me and my family. My husband has some of his favorite memories are on these trips. And so getting setup for that. And then August will actually be my next major goal that's Nationals it'll be at Stanford just an hour away. So that'll be nice won't have to travel really for that. And then we start entering into 2020. I mean there'll be winter nationals in December and then the same tier Pro Series circuit in 2020. And so honestly my main focus is just kind of at each meet to hopefully each chipping away at little things. Even if that doesn't necessarily show up in my time it better turns. It's it's starting to feel that pieces of the race I want to have at Olympic trials in 2020. Start to have those pieces show up now.

 

Laura:

[00:33:46] That's great. I love the plan. Okay, so where can we follow you online to continue to just be inspired and encouraged by you? And also so we can cheer you on toward Tokyo?

 

Dana:

[00:33:55] You can follow me on Instagram is the main one @Dana.Vollmer and @DanaVollmer.com.

 

Laura:

[00:34:06] Awesome thank you so much Dana for coming on. I love your story. Obviously, I feel very connected because of the mom component. We're still training but you're absolutely awesome and we thank you for your time.

 

Dana:

[00:34:17] Yes definitely. Hopefully, we will be together on that 2020 team.

 

Laura:

[00:34:24] Such great wisdom from Dana today. I love how when the pressure became all too much. It was that trip to Fiji that really helped her reset. A few weeks ago we hadDr. Ben Holtzberg on our show and he told us the best way to shift to a purpose based mindset is to find ways to serve others outside of ourselves. And Dana has clearly discovered that. As she expresses is so important to continually keep our perspectives in check. When we feel overwhelmed by the pressures of other people's expectations. We have to remember who we are and why we love to do what we do and let everything else just fade away. Along those lines, I wanted to let you guys know about something coming up over the next few weeks that I have been working like crazy on and I'm super excited to tell you about. Have you ever been anxious going into a competition or felt like you won the warm-up but not the meet or maybe you just don't understand why you don't perform when it counts but you do in practice? If that sounds like you then listen up. I've designed an online course that is just for you. I'm going to teach you the most crucial mental skills that I've acquired over my 20 plus years as an elite athlete. I'm going to walk you step by step through the process that will help you optimize your performance and set you up for success. If you're ready for change and you want the skills to take your performance to the next level then I want you to head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance and sign up so you'll be the first to know when this course is available. And when you sign up I'm going to send you my list of the five things that you can do today to become a more confident competitor. So head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance. Next week we have legendary speed skater Dan Jansen on the show with us. Dan clinched Olympic gold in the final race of his career and dedicated that victory to his sister who died just hours before his event in a previous Olympic Games. His story is one of incredible dedication and determination and I'm so excited to share it with you next week. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening so you don't miss a single episode and remember to leave us a review because that helps us to keep bringing on these awesome guests. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and access to the complete archives please visit HopeSports.org

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