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About This Episode

There is some debate about when it was discovered that Lauryn Williams was fast. Her father claims that it was when she spent an entire day at the science center in Pittsburg racing a hologram of the legendary Olympic gold medalist Florence Joyner until she was actually able to beat it. For her mother, it was when she could beat their family dog home after playing outside. Either way, they knew that she could run -- fast. But Lauryn didn’t always have aspirations of being a track & field athlete. She participated in karate, gymnastics, softball, basketball, and ballroom dancing throughout her childhood. While focusing on academic college scholarships during her senior year of high school, she stumbled upon athletic scholarships and thought that she had a good shot of snagging one. She ended up attending the University of Miami, confiding, “if I had to run for college funding, I might as well do it where the weather was nice!” Though her decision may have hinged more on climate than programming, she recalls being incredibly well cared for, honored, and championed as an athlete at the school. “The coaching staff and athletic department always did what was in my best interest as a person, in addition to an athlete,” she says.

At 20 years old, she ran the second fastest time in the world for the 100 meters, was the fastest American women, and won the NCAA championships. Although, being a professional athlete wasn’t anywhere on her radar at the time, her success catapulted her into the Olympic Trials and into the pressure to win big for her country. Her hometown did fundraisers to get her parents to Athens and it was as if the entire world watched her step up to the line of the 100 meter race. She ran a great race and was proud to walk away from that event with a silver medal. It wasn’t time to relax yet, however, as the 4x100 meter relay was only days away. The four women on the team were several of the fastest in the world and together, they easily had a shot at not only a gold medal, but a world record. In the end, perhaps it was division in their training or a lack of chemistry or negativity that chipped away at their confidence, but whatever the reason, the baton failed to be passed inside of the allotted zone and the team was disqualified.

“I felt like I not only left my team down, but I let the whole country down,” says Lauryn of the race. Set to receive the baton from Marion Jones, Lauryn was personally a part of the botched handoff and the headlines, reporters, and fans didn’t let her forget it. “It was the first time that I was subjected to the anger and hatred of others. And it went far beyond just the performance,” she recalls. After repeatedly seeing her name alongside words such as “failure” and “let-down”, she had to dig herself out of the pit of self-doubt and insecurity; she had to not internalize what everyone was saying about her. With the support of her family and close community, she says that she arrived at the mindset that “it’s about who I believe I am.”

Putting the Olympics behind her, she returned to training and competing professionally. An opportunity for redemption presented itself at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing where she qualified to run the 100 meter individual event as well as the 4x100 meter relay. She took fourth place in the individual race behind three women from Jamaica and had to bounce back from that disappointment to head into the relay. But the nightmare repeated itself for the American women. The baton was again dropped during the transfer; once more the team headed home empty handed, devastated, and in the merciless hands of the media. “I just wanted to hit the rewind button,” says Lauryn. It seemed that one mistake was forgivable, but definitely not two. Despite her rich faith and strong friends and teammates, Lauryn struggled to maintain her confidence.

Shortly after those 2008 Olympic games, her father passed away. Still reeling from the disappointment of the games, her pain was only worsened by not having one of her biggest encouragers on the sideline. The grief didn’t fully hit her until May of the following year when, out of instinct, she picked up her phone and called her dad. As the phone rang and rang, it finally dawned on her that he was gone and she could never again be comforted by his counsel or encouraged by his voice.

“I was faced with questions about what life was really about and why I was running circles around a track,” says Lauryn. She had equated her identity, success, and influence with her speed, but losing her father brought her face to face with deep doubts about her purpose. She took 2010 off from track to find out who she was without running, to discover the way she contributed to society and community when she isn’t simply an athlete. “During that year I spent a lot of time talking to people about how they got to where they were,” explains Lauryn. She was on a mission to discover how the everyday person navigated they journey, and she ascertained that there was no such thing as a linear path. “You get to write your story. You get to decide who you are,” she says. She learned that the journey towards purpose is one of evolution, not destination or definition. In various seasons elements are added into our lives, just as others fall away. She found peace in the realization that she wouldn’t be an elite sprinter forever, but also that she wasn’t done yet.

She returned to competition in 2012 with an entirely different mindset. “I felt more grateful to those who were around me,” Lauryn recalls. Her eyes had been opened to the specific journeys and purpose of her coach, trainers, nutritionist, and even the volunteers at every event. “So many people invested their time in my success,” says Lauryn. And she started taking time to thank them. Although she didn’t qualify for the individual event in London, they still thought highly enough of her that she was placed on the 4x100 meter relay team despite her perceived failures in 2004 and 2008. Most of the team was brand new and her maturity, experience, and composure grounded the team. Because of her negative experiences and mistakes, she was able to emphasize the importance of honesty, communication, and trust within the relay team; things that she knew mattered just as much as speed. Lauryn got to be a part of the semi-final race that secured the American team a spot in the finals where the women went on to break a 27 year old world record, and finally win the gold medal. It took time, however, for Lauryn to fully accept the medal. Although she was a part of getting the team to the final, she didn’t run in the actual race and initially felt quite fraudulent owning that victory. But with time, she matured enough to see the intangible effects that she had on the team that led to generating the kind of atmosphere from which world class teams are born.

After her final season of running came to a close, she ran into Olympic hurdler Lolo Jones at an airport and they talked a bit about the bobsled career that Lolo pursued after retiring from track. One month later, Lauryn found herself at the Olympic trials for bobsled. It was a steep learning curve over the next six months, but of that time she says, “I realized that I had nothing left to lose, and only things to gain.” She spent several months training with various partners in a round robin style and the final pairings wouldn’t be decided until ten days before the event. Thanks to her experience in 2012, she knew that her contribution wasn’t limited to tangible influence. No matter the outcome, she wanted Team USA to send the best six competitors to Sochi even if that put her in a supporting role. A week and a half before the event she was paired with Elana Meyers Taylor and the two went on to win silver in the bobsled final. “The best part was that I just never saw the opportunity coming,” says Lauryn. Participating and winning in a collaborative event was both gratifying and redeeming. In addition to winning a medal, Lauryn made history as the first American woman--and one of only five athletes ever--to medal in both the summer and winter Olympics.

Satisfied with her athletic career, Lauryn has recently turned her attention to serving athletes in other ways. She started a financial planning business called Worth Winning that aims to help young athletes optimize their finances, set markers beyond competition, and define their values in a concrete way. So many young athletes don’t fit into the typical box for financial planning; they are more tech savvy, on the go, and goal oriented. In addition, she has her own podcast  with guests who discuss their own financial journeys in hopes that listeners can shed any embarrassment or shame in feeling inept at managing money. Her knowledge isn’t limited to the financial sector, though. Her book, The Oval Office, will be releasing this year and is full of information for professional athletes about how to navigate the world of elite sports in a really practical way. From working with agents to wading through endorsement offers to signing with teams, she guides readers through the world that she had to uncover on her own. And, true to her own journey, Lauryn encourages others to write their own story, believe in themselves, and learn to view failures as building blocks for their future. Be sure to following Lauryn on Instagram and Twitter, as well as on her website and podcast.

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 Laura:

[00:00:06] Welcome to the Hope Sports podcast. I'm your host. Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. Each week I have the

privilege of chatting with a different elite athlete about how they navigated their rise in sports where they find their purpose

and how they're contributing in amazing ways to the world today. You're in for a real treat today as Olympian Lauren Williams

is joining us. I can't easily tag a sport alongside her Olympian status because Lauren is actually the first American woman to

win a medal in both the Summer and Winter Olympics. And she's one of only five individuals to ever do so. She race track and

field and three Olympics and just when she thought she was retiring she turned right around and raced bobsled in the Winter

Olympics. But her journey is about so much more than that she has walked through heartbreaking defeats and emerged so

incredibly grateful optimistic and authentic. She's a savvy business owner a compassionate leader and an all-around

inspiration. You are gonna be so glad you tuned in today. Let's dive on it.

[00:01:04] Lauren Williams thank you so much for coming on Hope Sports podcast today.

Lauren:

It is so good to be here. I can't wait to share my story.

Laura:

Well for those listening to that may not know a whole lot about you. Can you kind of walk us through how you got your start in

sports?

Lauren:

[00:01:18] Sure. So it all started way back in the 1980s. Now I'm born and raised between. I'm born in Pittsburgh raised

between Pittsburgh and Detroit and started running track when I was nine years old. And depending on who you ask between

my mother and father you'll get two entirely different stories about how I got my start. My dad will tell you that we were at the

Carnegie Science Center in Pennsylvania and there was a blow Joe hologram. And I do know this story to be true. I remember

the hologram and I remember raising the hologram but I stayed there all day didn't do anything else I didn't see anything else in

the science center. And I did beat the hologram a few times now. Clearly, she could have been set at a world record pace. But.

Laura:

[00:02:03] For you are really impressive 9 year old one to the other.

Lauren:

[00:02:06] right or I was a really impressive 9year girl. But that wasn't quite as fast as I got older. And then my mom tells a

story of me getting home faster than the family German shepherd. And I do also remember going outside and playing with the

dog and you know her kind of calling us when it was this time for us to come in. But whether or not I got home faster than my

dog. You know I'm inclined to believe I did. But.

Laura:

[00:02:31] That you're a racer from the beginning huh?

Lauren:

[00:02:33] Exactly. I always love running. I always love being outside. You know competing and you know it was kind of a

tomboy if you will.

Laura:

[00:02:40] Did you do any other sports or was it always just track and running?

Lauren:

[00:02:44] Everything. In fact, I didn't think that I was gonna be like a star track athlete. It wasn't a goal or aspiration of mine

at all. I did karate and ballroom dancing. I did gymnastics. Softball.

Laura:

[00:02:53] Ballroom dancing.

Lauren:

[00:02:55] I know right.

Laura:

[00:02:56] Wow! Nice.

Lauren:

[00:02:58] I didn't make the volleyball team. I still kind of have a chip on my shoulder about that.

Laura:

[00:03:03] You can't have it all Lauren. Can’t have it all.

Lauren:

[00:03:04] Can’t have it all. That's true. Basketball is the thing I love the most though. And that's what I thought I was going to

do and I wanted to do. But sitting on the bench on senior night in high school my best friend got her. And then finally got to go

in when she got her in the fourth quarter. Let me know that I was probably not going to be a basketball player beyond my high

school days.

Laura:

[00:03:25] Also how did you find herself at the University of Miami?

Lauren:

[00:03:29] Well when I started to get these letters in the mail to ask me you know if I was interested in attending this school or

that school. I got really excited because I didn't know that that was actually an option initially. I was really working hard

toward getting academic scholarship, moneys and keep my grades up. And then I realized there was this thing called athletic

scholarships and I was like oh like this could work. And I'm just sorting through the different options. I decided that if I needed

to go to school and it was gonna be my obligation to run track as a way to kind of pay for my education that I had better do it

in a place that had warm weather so that I'd feel good about going to practice every day and meeting. At 17 that's all the wiser

that I could be it was a warm place, outdoors and I went on my college visit there it was October. And so got a sunburn in

Miami in October and got back to Pennsylvania for school and it was the first frost.

Laura:

[00:04:23] Oh wow.

Lauren:

[00:04:24] And I was like oh like sunburn in October or snow in October.

Laura:

[00:04:30] I think that’s a wise move. Well, you competed for track at Miami. You graduate in 2004 and you were even

inducted into the iron arrow Honor Society of the university's highest honor. Tell us about your college experience.

Lauren:

[00:04:43] It was amazing. There's no place I would rather go to school. There was not a day that I regretted choosing the

University of Miami the way that they looked after me in a family sort of way. We got there and the athletic department was a

small tight-knit family. My coach to this day I can say has always done what was in my best interest. And that you know

always thought about what I needed and what was going to be best for me as a person and in addition to me as an athlete. And

the university as well kind of correct was the word was rallied around me when I started to get some fame and stardom. And

you know made sure that they did everything they could to help me as well. And so I'm just really appreciative for the

opportunity to have gone to that school to have been supported the way that I was. All the way up to the president of the

university. Yeah. It was a really really good opportunity.

Laura:

[00:05:37] Well that's cool. So after you graduated you made it to the 2004 Athens Olympics that was your first Olympic

Games right?

Lauren:

[00:05:44] Mm-hmm.

Laura:

[00:05:44] And you got a silver there and one hundred meters you became one of the darlings of the games. But at that same

games and the 4 by 100 your team was disqualified because of the baton pass. Can you kind of walk us through? I'm sure there

were so many ups and downs to that Olympics not only just because it's your first Olympics too and then all of that like. Walk

us through that.

Lauren:

[00:06:03] Yeah there was a lot. I was it was 2004 I was 20 years old I was now dealing with this idea of becoming a

professional athlete. That was not something I was necessarily on my radar earlier in the year. I was just trying to win the

NCAA title. And you know not only did I win the NCAA’s but I ran the second fastest time in the world. And it was like oh

you're now the fastest American that we have heading into the Olympic trials. So you better get on your big girl bridges and

hop to it because there's sponsorship opportunities and there is a lot to sort through. As a junior in college 20 years old and now

it is being the Olympic year. I get on this Olympic team.

[00:06:43] I had to figure out how to get my family over there. I didn't have any money yet my family didn't have a lot of

money. So there were fundraisers going on and things like that to sort through. My dad got to Athens and got sick. There was

just a lot going on, to say the least. But then in addition to that look at the actual performance. And I think I did a really good

job of kind of bundling my nerves together and performing well earning that silver medal. But then we had to go and get

ourselves. I had to go and get collaborative with the other sprinters and work on this relay and it did not go very well at all.

You're right. And the thing that's really hard about it even in thinking about it and reminiscing about it today is that we were

easily a world record team. If we could have gotten that baton around the track in the way that the potential we had. There's no

doubt about it that we not only would've been gold medalists but Olympic world record holders or world record holders now.

[00:07:45] And yeah just negative chemistry you know the coaches not really paying attention to what we were saying as

athletes. And you know feeling like they knew what was best for us even in the midst of us saying that you know what about

this what about that. All those things and all that negative chemistry came together and we did not get the baton round trip.

Laura:

[00:08:09] How did you. Did you guys get a lot of flak for that?

Lauren:

[00:08:12] A whole lot of flak for that. You know I was receiving the baton from the infamous Marion Jones I was this new

rookie. Even though I had you know they said I just want a medal and you think that that would create some stability or

credibility. It did not seem to create very much at all. And we were the crappy Americans that didn't do their job. And you

know there were all kinds of headlines on failure. And you know how could we screw this up sort of deal and whose fault it

was and lots of blame game. Yeah, it was a really tough time.

Laura:

[00:08:46] Well how did you. How do you handle that? As a 20 year old thinking about going professional now also to your

thrust into the spotlight with a medal and with this failure. Like how did you handle that?

Lauren:

[00:08:59] It was a lot. You're right. Because I got a really good high of earning a medal and not have expected that at all early

in the year. But then I got this really really big low of you let the whole country down. And you let your teammates down. And

I was the actual person that was part of the botched handoff. You know because I score runners so you know three other people

could have done perfectly and one person got it wrong. And you know I could have been on the done perfectly part of that but I

was on the wrong part of that.

[00:09:26] So that was the first time I was subject to the opinions of others and you know just even the anger and hatred that

others have just for us for sport in general. So you know, you stupid girl, how could you and you're an idiot. And you know

things that just went far beyond the actual performance that I think we're very unnecessary. And just negative fans that you

have to deal with. And digging yourself out of the idea that this is not who I am. This does not define me and what those

people are saying about me is not the thing that is most important. It's about who I believe I am you know how I decide to

bounce back from this catastrophe. And the way that I move forward that's going to build me and make me a stronger person.

Laura:

[00:10:16] So those next four years you went pro. I'm guessing at that point you did kind of become professional. You made

another Olympic team in 2008 and again it seems like it was kind of a mixed bag. I mean you got fourth in the individual but

that's you know short of the medals had three Jamaican runners that were in front of you. And then in the relay again like you

were the anchor and there was a mix up in the semifinals. And your teammate dropped the baton and like you had to pick it up

and you guys finished but you got queued. Because you had to run outside of the lane in order to pick up the baton. Like I

found a quote that you had about this that I just thought was so well said that I would love you to talk on. You said it's a pretty

big deal when you're the person that was accountable for the demise of an opportunity. Not only for us to win a gold medal but

to possibly break a world record because we had to really fast teams. Both of those years and I felt very alone at that moment.

Like how. I mean I know you said you've got a fine figure out that this doesn't define you but I mean it happened again. And

like how do you have people speaking into you or you isolated? Like what did it look like walking out those days afterward?

Lauren:

[00:11:21] You know I'm very fortunate to have a really good team around me. And have a really good set of friends to kind of

keep me lifted up in moments like that. But it's definitely really tough even despite my faith and belief to just walk away and

kind of let that roll off your shoulders. You know you work so hard. You want to do well for not just yourself but for those that

you're competing with. You do want to represent your country to the best of your ability. And at that moment you feel like you

feel that all of those things and you just want to hit the rewind button. You're like Why is there not a rewind somewhere.

[00:12:00] But yeah working through it just takes a little bit of time and takes you know sticking to this idea that you know

some negative things are going to happen but these things are something to build on. They're not something to continue to hold

you down or they're not something to kind of wallow in and stay there. So I'd say like yeah do I walk through the valley of the

shadow of death. I always tell people in speeches and things that's like it's walkthrough. It doesn't say like stop and set up camp

there. Doesn't say go hang out in the valley of the shadow.

Laura:

[00:12:34] That's so good.

Lauren:

[00:12:36] So just giving yourself those constant reminders that yeah it stinks. But keep going.

Laura:

[00:12:43] Did you keep going after Beijing? Because I know you finished your masters and then you took a whole year off in

  1. So did you keep training kind of after and then take a break or what how did that play out?

Lauren:

[00:12:53] Yeah. So my dad passed away in 2008 shortly after those games so to add insult to injury. He passed away in that

year and it was just a little bit tough to digest. It was May of the following year 2009 when it really kind of hit me. And I think

you know people grieve differently so often. And you never really know what it's going to mean. Or what it's going to feel like

for you when you lose someone that's very close to you. And you know I was just kind of be-bopping along and pretending as

if nothing had happened. And I went to call him I was on my way to practice in 2009 and picked up the phone and like you

know doubt it. Was like waiting for it to ring and then I realized like oh I can't call someone who's dead.

[00:13:42] And it kind of just like splitting me into like a spiraling few months of you know the actual real grieving process.

And wondering you know like what is life all about anyway. Who am I outside of running up and down this track? And you

know getting these accolades. And you know being judge or feeling as if I'm judged so harshly. Or so it was with so much

weight by the world because of my ability to run up and down the track. And you know you meet people and you know doctors

and lawyers and other people that are contributing to society. And it's like what does this mean? What am I contributing by

running up and down this track?

[00:14:20] And so I took that year off in 2010 to really just kind of try to find that answer for myself you know who am I

outside of this. Because I'm not finding that I'm anything other than an athlete. And I really. I know there's more but I don't

know what else I am and I want to take time to figure that out. And what I did during that all fear was spent a lot of time

talking to other people about you know how they got where they were. So there's a young lady that owns a hotel. And how do

you come to own a hotel? And her story was just you know all sorts of different things. And she didn't go to college for hotel

ownership. And then get out of school and work in a hotel and then become a hotel owner you know.

[00:14:58] It was a very very winding wavy story. And then you realize that you know you're not you know there's no linear

path to anything that you're doing. And you get to write your story. You get to decide who you are and what you want to be in.

And there's nothing that you can't do if you set your mind to it. And it's not just in saying that about sport it's about saying that

in life and deciding. Then what do you want to do? What do you want to set your mind to? And so that's kind of what was

happening for me in the 2010 year with me figuring all that out.

Laura:

[00:15:30] I love that. And what did you find out? Who are you? What did you discover during that time? I’ve loaded question

I know.

Lauren:

[00:15:39] Right. Exactly. I found out that who I am is ever evolving. That from one day to the next I am growing into who I'm

going to be. And that there doesn't have to be a set definition on that. I think that's one of the things we're always trying to fit

ourselves into a box. Wears the appropriate label that I'm supposed to be wearing right now. And there is no one thing that you

are you know. Like if you went through you could say you know a woman, dog lover, wife you know. And the list goes on of

all these different things you know. Law and order lover, podcaster, a financial planner but you don't need to fit into a box. And

for one day it makes one of those things my drop off and somebody else might be added to the mix. Each and every day is a

process of like you know being the best me that I can be. It's not really about you know fitting into anyone else's box or

creating boxes for myself.

Laura:

[00:16:36] So good. And so what made you in 2011 return to competition?

Lauren:

[00:16:42] I just knew that I wasn't done yet. You know I just I decided like you said that though this is not who I am in its

entirety. That it is a part of who I am. Track and field. And that I had more to give. I had more that I wanted to accomplish. I

had plenty of potentials inside. And that I wanted to go after reaching my full potential. And I wanted to really like walk away

by saying I have left it all on the track. And so I went back to the sport with that as the intention. And I did have a completely

different mindset when I think when I return the sport. Knowing that that was not like said the end all be all. And though I

didn't know what was coming next. That the end was closer than I was closer to the end than I was to the beginning. And that I

had better make the most of these opportunities.

[00:17:34] So I think my attitude changed quite a bit. I was a lot more grateful to those that I was around for their contribution

to you know me being able to compete. So you don't realize sometimes or you know because we're athletes and you know I'd

do an individual sport. It's a lot of me thinking about me. But the number of hours that someone else has to spend for me to be

able to reach my full potential. My coach has to write a workout. She has to watch the film. She has to show that practice with

me you know travel and be away from her family. And the way Coach does the same thing. You know the nutritionist is doing

similar things. And so really just like the kind of tuning into all that was around me and all that I had to be grateful for. And all

those people were pouring into me.

[00:18:16] I was a lot more aware and a lot more focused on showing gratitude and appreciation for my ability to be able to

compete. So I'd get to a track meet and remember to thank the volunteers. Because a lot of track and field is volunteer oriented.

And you know where they said busy Russian or we're mad at them because they telling us. We can't go over here and we need

to warm up over there. And you know it's like these are real people and take a moment to be present at the moment and realize

that. And I think it just created like set new energy for me as I return a sport.

Laura:

[00:18:51] That's so cool. And so how did that I guess change things? Because you did make another Olympic team in 2012.

Like, walk us through what this new attitude? This new kind of outlook on life. Like how did that affect your games in

London?

Lauren:

[00:19:06] I think it helped quite a bit because you know part of that story is I didn't make the Olympic team in my individual

event I made it only part of the relay. And so you know it's a tough pill to swallow. Initially that you didn't make it for your

individual event you know you could have been left at home but. And despite my failures you know 0-4 we dropped the baton,

0-8 we dropped the baton. Despite both of those being the situation and me being directly involved in both of those situations

they still thought enough of me to bring me as part of the relay. They thought that I had enough experience. They valued the

experiences that I had and wanted me to share that because most of the other team was brand new. They'd never been on an

Olympic team before. So here they are with this opportunity to be a part of the relay but they don't have any experience on this

stage. And I have not just experience but experience in the worst kind of way.

[00:20:00] So I can tell you exactly what to do to avoid ending up in the situation that I ended up in. And you know maturing

to a point to understand that has value. It was a really big part of the puzzle for me. Knowing that you know there's something

and being able to explain to them why we should not go about it this way. Why our chemistry needs to be really great. Why we

need to communicate with one another. Because that negative energy that we took on the track in 0-4 in 0-8 definitely played a

role in our failure. And I think you know that it was really important to contribute to our success in 2012.

Laura:

[00:20:36] Yeah I would say it’s successful. I mean I think our leadership and your wisdom that you learn along the way

obviously helped you guys walked away with a gold medal. Like what did that getting that gold medal means to you?

Lauren:

[00:20:50] I would say at the moment like you said it's been a process of me maturing to understanding and really getting

meaning from the metal. But at the moment I wasn't ready to accept. I felt really embarrassed and ashamed like you said the

way that I just described the medal to you now is where I've evolved to understanding. Like what my contribution was and

why it was valuable. But initially I felt kind of fraudulent. I felt like I didn't earn that medal. So the way that goes is there's six

of us that get to go as part of the relay. And two of us competed in only the first round while the other two are resting because

they were also running the open hundred meters. So I contributed in the first round which is an important thing because if you

don't get it around in the first round there is no second round.

Laura:

[00:21:34] Right.

Lauren:

[00:21:35] But you know the actual group that won the gold medal ran the final. Broke the world record. You know I wasn't on

that team. And so I felt a little bit weird initially to say that I was an Olympic gold medalist when I knew I didn't do the final

part of the race. I felt a little weird to call myself a world record holder when I was not actually on the track and you know

doing my part to contribute there. But as like I said I started to think about like the contributions. And you know having talks

with others. And you know just realizing how different that games was than the others. And you know like one of the girls

coming up to me later and saying you know thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me. You know it was really

frustrating when this happened or whatever and you helped me understand it. I realized that that was valuable and that was a

contribution and that helped her be able to compete hard to the best of her ability.

Laura:

[00:22:30] That's awesome. I guess sometimes it really is hard in those moments but I love that you can look back and see all

that you really did add to that. Because without leadership and without somebody guiding and directing. I mean who knows

what would have happened right? We need all of those things to come into play at the right time to happen. So what happened

after London? Because I think you retired from the track but something else kind of started to take a play and I want to know

how all of this unfolded?

Lauren:

[00:22:56] So I was thinking about giving up the sport. So London came and went and I had one season left as per my contract.

And I thought it was kind of the perfect timing because you know I could see and feel the end was near. As it pertains to my

ability to focus and really give all I needed to give to be a professional athlete. I knew that you know I can continue to compete

for 5 years at a mediocre rate or I could stop because I wasn't 100 percent. And my idea was you know make the most of this

last year of competing and then you know to move on with life. And while I was in my last year of competition I ran into Lolo

Jones at the airport and had read an article about her having tried bobsled after the 2012 Games. And just wanted to hear more

about her experience and how that happened and she was like Lauren it's awesome it's really really cool you should try it. And

it's the Olympic year and I was like so? I just got to be something cool to do in my free time. Now that I'm getting ready to

retire I wasn't thinking anything about the Olympics. And so yeah I reached out to find out what the process was and a month

later I was at the Olympic trials for bobsled and.

Laura:

[00:24:12] A month later?

Lauren:

[00:24:13] A month later. Yeah.

Laura:

[00:24:16] Goodness.

Lauren:

[00:24:16] No. Yeah. So that was. Yeah. From you know June of 2014 to June of 2013. July of 2013 I was there and I was

trying out and the Olympics were six months later. So immediately I showed up I got third place and I had a really steep

learning curve over the next six months.

Laura:

[00:24:38] I would imagine that's insane. That's insane. And now how did you get partnered with Alona too because you guys

were obviously an amazing team. Like how does that all work out in the bobsled world? Do they pick your teammate for you

or do you guys kind of all work together? What does that look like?

Lauren:

[00:24:54] We do a little bit of round robin in those 6 months that I was telling you about. So we were racing a World Cup

season that takes place before you get to the games and that plays into your rankings and you know where you'll go in the

process as a driver. But we did a lot of round robin to figure out who was gonna be best suited to who. And we actually did not

know until 10 days before the actual Olympics who was going to race with who.

Laura:

[00:25:20] Just 10 days? Whoa! that's crazy. So what. I mean did hearing the news that you're going to be on the Olympic team

and getting to walk this out was it just surreal? I mean here you were your whole life doing track and three Olympic Games

that way. And then all sudden you know in a month you're on this Olympic team and you're. I mean I can't even imagine. How

did you process that?

Lauren:

[00:25:44] So do I. Like I said it all happened really really quick from you know finding out about it. A month later being at

the trials to having 6 months to figure the whole thing out to be in a month before the Olympic Games. And we're all still

sitting and wait in you know anticipation. Trying to figure out like who are they going to pick. They finally named the team.

But then you still had to wait 20 more days to find out. You know, now you're on the team but you still don't know you're

racing with. So there's a lot of hurry up and wait anticipation and this big build of energy that's always happening in bobsled.

But it's just really about trying to figure out how to manage that to the best of your ability to kind of enjoy the ride. And I think

that was the thing that helped me a lot was I decided at the very beginning of it that I had nothing to lose.

[00:26:38] I only had things to gain and that the journey was going to be the thing that was going to be more important to me

than anything. What can I contribute? And I think that that 2012 experience of knowing that I wasn't competing but I could still

contribute. Help me understand that that's all that this was about. Is there a way I can contribute? Is there a way I can help this

team? And if you know if there's a way I can help but it doesn't require me to be on the actual track or on the actual team? Then

so be it. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that Team USA has the best 6 people out there.

Laura:

[00:27:15] That's so cool. Now I have to know because I've only been a summer athlete. What's the difference besides the

freezing cold? It's not like Miami. What's the difference between the summer and winter games? From your perspective?

Lauren:

[00:27:28] I would say that intimacy is the biggest thing. So I always tell people like I remember one of the years. I think they

said the track and field team was 182 people. So just USA Track and Field 182 people for the Olympics. The Winter Olympic

team all sports 230 people.

Laura:

[00:27:51] Wow.

Lauren:

[00:27:52] So it really puts in perspective. You know all the various sports that compete in the Olympic Games in the summer.

All the various sports for Team USA. You know there's thousands and thousands of athletes. But yeah one team in the summer

is pretty much equivalent to the whole Olympic team. All sports in the winter.

Laura:

[00:28:13] Wow that's cool. That's very cool. Well, you guys went on to mean not just compete but you got a silver medal in

the 2014 Winter Olympic Games in Sochi. Just one-tenth of a second behind the Canadians. Like what did that medal mean to

you and how is that different from all your other experiences?

Lauren:

[00:28:31] I mean the thing that was really cool about the medal was like I said I'd never seen it coming. I could have never

guessed that my life was going to take that turn and bring me such a cool opportunity. And to have the opportunity to get to do

it with Alona who is an amazing person made it that much more gratifying. Because we did it together. And you know in track

and field I didn't really get that opportunity. I had the individual medals and then I got to be a part of a team and do my

contribution there. But then this was like the end of the third time. Making me well-rounded if you will of actually competing

with another person and earning that medal together. And it just felt so great to be able to do something with someone and to

understand what it means to like partner up. And decide to really go hard for it for a specific purpose with another person.

Laura:

[00:29:30] That's so cool. And you made history and doing that she became the first American woman to win medals at both

the Summer and Winter Olympics. And one of only five athletes ever to do it at all. I mean that's incredible. Did you realize

you were making history when you did this?

Lauren:

[00:29:44] I did not. It did not come to my attention until the reporters brought it up afterward. What does it mean to you to

make history and I'm like What kind of history? I don't know. So.

Laura:

[00:29:56] That’s so cool. Well OK. So tell me now you have a financial planning business called Worth Winning. Tell us

about your company.

Lauren:

[00:30:04] Yes. So my company was born out of me not having the best financial planners during my career. So I worked with

two different gentlemen during the course of my career and I wanted to be responsible with my finances. But they didn't really

understand what I needed as an athlete. You know what I needed as a 20 year old who didn't know a whole lot about money.

And you know my busy travel schedule and you know there's just a lot that doesn't fit into the traditional box of what financial

planning is. So I help young professionals and professional athletes organize their finances and you know what does that mean.

That's like creating a budget you never bought a house before and that's something you want to do. If you're saving for a

wedding you know you don't know anything about how to put money aside for taxes. And you know do you need a business

account or not. And there's just so many different things that get thrown our direction. And just kind of make money, spend

money, you know hopefully save a little bit money and you know that's not a real strategy.

[00:31:05] I help people optimize their finances so use them money, give it a job and give it a job that's gonna be in line with

your values. So I spend a lot of time talking with my athletes and the young professionals that I work with. About what are

your goals? What are your values? The same way that we do in the sport. Let's work backward from there and create smaller

goals. Smaller things that we want to do. And then go you know piece by piece after that so that we can you know the

championship is this one thing that you're trying to achieve. But once again it's never like making it to the podium that makes

you feel awesome. Is this journey all along the way? And so using money as a tool to really enjoy the journey is how I try to

focus my business and help people in all aspects of their finances.

Laura:

[00:31:50] My goodness I love that on so many levels. I mean I love just what you're doing. I love who you're targeting to

help. I mean there's definitely that need there. I mean a lot of people like you said are young when they become professional

athletes. Because that's usually when an athletic career is optimal when you're young and you don't know anything. So I just

think it's brilliant. I love how you compare it to athletics in such a way that we can understand. And I think you do a lot of stuff

virtually too right?

Lauren:

[00:32:12] Yeah I'm completely virtual. I'm actually podcasting today from Buenos Aires. So.

Laura:

[00:32:16] Oh wow. We should've done this on location. I should have come down to you. That would be nice.

Lauren:

[00:32:25] You know as young professionals we are tech savvy. We're on the go. We're spread out all over the country. And I

didn't want that to stop me from being able to serve the client that I want to serve. And we jump on a video chat just like zoom

and we talk about what needs to be talked about. And there's no dumb question. And there's no you know fancy suit and tie that

needs to be worn. You know people's kids are running around in the background. These things shouldn't be barriers. You

getting help and getting the answers that you need about your finances. And it should be talked about in such a way that you

don't understand it in. It sounds so fancy and complicated.

[00:33:00] You know we've got basic questions and I really just want to help with basic questions. When I was competing and I

wasn't finding that. I was frequently finding you know there like I said fancy talk down to me it sounds more complicated than

you can understand. Because you're not smart enough and I'm like No that's not true at all. Like, break it down in a way that

lets me know what I'm doing. Why we're doing this? And you know helped me set some goals so that I'm gonna be OK in the

future.

Laura:

[00:33:25] I love it. Sports just. Yes. It can play off in your life in so many ways. And it's just such a good analogy for life

right? You could just use it in so many ways. I love it. And you also have a podcast now you said it's a year it's been a year

now. So happy anniversary to your podcast called Worth Listening. What do you talk about on your podcast?

Lauren:

[00:33:42] Yes. I love love love love my podcast. And the reason that I love it is like a passion project for me. It is encouraging

others to discuss money and I think that's one of the big barriers that we have in organizing our finances nowadays. Because

we all know that everybody has to make money some sort of way. Everybody has to spend money on some sort of way. And

there's no requirement that you hire a financial planner or someone to help you. But what people do is hide the information and

they are afraid to say what they don't know and they're ashamed of all these different things. And that's what actually leaves

you making more mistakes is hiding, being embarrassed not feeling like you can be open. And feeling like you have to know

everything and you can't ask anyone anything. And so my podcast is based all around people telling their money story. So that

the listeners don't have to feel alone and like oh I have student loan debt too that six figures. And you know this is how I'm

tackling it. And you know I don't know what a 401(k) is but I know I'm putting some money in it. And you know now this

person help me break it down a little bit.

[00:34:48] So it's getting rid of all those barriers of things that could stop you from being able to save for your future or being

able to get over the fact that you've made some mistakes before and really move forward. You know I had a girl on recently

that I met paid down over 50,000 dollars in credit card debt. And I think a lot of people get in a situation like that and they just

you know maybe file for bankruptcy. Or they would never even say anything to anyone. But this girl decided to make a

mindset change and pay it all back and get rid of it and you know to change the way that she was going to think about money

in the future. And I think that's a really inspirational story to tell. She didn't have to be a financial expert to inspire people to do

the right thing and to get on some sort of plan. So the podcast is all about like I said having money. Discussions and

encouraging others to be more open and honest about sharing what they know and educating one another about finances.

Laura:

[00:35:42] And if that's not having this new business in your podcast you're also releasing a book very soon called the Oval

Office. A 4 time Olympians guide to professional track and field. So tell us about your book that's coming.

Lauren:

[00:35:56] The book. Yes. This is another thing that I'm really excited about we are just days away. Actually spent the whole

morning on the last round of edits and sent it off to the designer to redo and get it to look like a book. Because right now it's

like a document and yet again another passion project. There are so many people in track and field that are just like how do you

navigate this world and they have questions. And there's no guide. There's nothing that tells you to like how do you become a

professional track and field athlete? And what do I need to know and how can I be responsible for managing all these different

aspects? And what questions should I be asking my agent? What should I consider before I buy a house and then decide that

I'm going to go train with this coach instead. And now I'm stuck with a house in this state and got to pay rent in this day.

[00:36:42] And there's just so many different things that I learned during my time competing that I felt like I needed to share.

And it wasn't just gonna be a one hour talk and you know try to change someone's life. But like why not give them the

roadmap to the things that I felt like I was missing in addition to the things that I felt like I did really well. And that's how the

Oval Office was born. And I'm really really really excited about the way that it's going to change the lives of those or interested

in the sport. Obviously not going to be like a New York Times bestseller. Track and field is a very small sport but it matters so

much to me that they'll have a resource available to them to help them understand better how to navigate sport.

Laura:

[00:37:23] I think it's amazing. It sounds like you don't just have to be a track and field athlete. I mean I'm looking at the

highlights that you had on the Web site. I mean it's like how to choose the members of your team including your agent, your

coach, your training group. How do you negotiate sponsorships and contracts? And handling your finances like a professional

athlete. Building your brand using social media. Managing travel nutrition life outside of sports. I mean to me it sounds like it's

gonna be helpful to any professional athlete. So I'm gonna have to preorder a copy because I know you can. So tell us where

we can find your book your podcast. Your company. All of your online things where we can follow you to continue to just be

inspired and to learn from you because you obviously have a lot of great wisdom to teach us.

Lauren:

[00:38:03] Definitely. So the book is The-Oval-office.com. So all of my web sites have a little dash in the middle because you

know to buy the actual website was a bazillion dollars. But we've kept it all consistent so whatever words I say put a dash in

the middle in between and get to the .com and you're there. So Lauren-Williams.com is my personal Web site is all about me as

an Olympian and being a speaker and consulting and things like that. And then Worth-Winning.com is a website for financial

planning all things financial planning. And so you can find us on social media looking for the same sort of thing. So

Worth_Winning on Twitter, @worthwinning on Instagram. Lauren C. Williams on all the social media platforms so that's the

one thing that's a little bit different. But I'm sure that all the initial notes. So.

Laura:

[00:38:54] Yeah. We'll make sure to link to everything you guys don't get confused. But Lauren thank you so much for coming

  1. You're an incredible inspiration. I feel like you're a great teacher as well and so we just really appreciate all of your wisdom

here today.

Lauren:

[00:39:06] It was wonderful being on the show. Like I said I hope that I can inspire and I'm just really excited to be kind of in

the next phase of life where I can give back to the sport because the sport has given so much to me.

Laura:

[00:39:19] Wow! A huge thanks to Lauren for joining us today. Isn't she just incredible? I just love how she talked about taking

that time off in 2010 to really dig into her purpose and figure out what life was about outside of running. It's so neat how that

journey just drastically changed who she was going into the next Olympics. The gratitude leadership and composure that her

solid identity gave her. It really allowed her to ride the waves of the coming years towards all of the amazing things that she's

doing now. She's just incredible. Be sure to check out the links the show notes to follow on social media. And if you're an

athlete definitely snag a copy of her book because that knowledge will be so invaluable for you and for the athletes out there

looking to improve their athletic performance with a purpose. I'm offering a free life masterclass where all talk about five

common mistakes athletes makes that hinder success. If you're ready for a change and want the skills to take your performance

to the next level then I want you to go and sign up. LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass. That's LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass

to sign up for my free live masterclass on five common mistakes athletes make that hinder success. I'll see you there! And be

sure to subscribe so you don't miss next week's episode because we have an absolutely insane athlete joining us. David Colturi

was once just a 10-meter platform diver like myself. But apparently that wasn't quite enough of a thrill. He is now a cliff diver

and travels internationally diving from nearly nine stories high. I'm sure you're wondering how he does it. I am too. You don't

want to miss it. On behalf of Hope Sports, I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks for tuning in and have a great week. This podcast is

produced by Evo Terra in Simpler Media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please

visit HopeSports.org

 

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About This Episode

Matt Lindland always dreamed of competing at the Olympic level, but maybe not in the sport you’d expect. Having grown up in the country, his notoriety as a athlete was in equestrian events, not mixed martial arts. Matt was one of the best riders in his state and desperately wanted to compete nationally, but his family could not financially swing such an involved sport. When one of his high school gym teachers encouraged him to wrestle, he decided to give it a try. He finished his first season and had fallen in love with the sport. Soon after, he was invited to compete in a Greco-Roman Invitational and, with no experience in that style, enrolled in four different categories. He finished 0-8 that weekend and walked away knowing that he would need both a coach and a lot of work if his dreams were to come true.

Matt found his way to a local club where it just so happened that the 1984 Olympic Wrestling team coach worked. Lindland wasn’t heavily recruited after high school, so took time to attend a junior college and continue his training. The hard work paid off, as he went on to win Nationals and soon had a contract with the University of Nebraska. He made a name for himself his first year as a Cornhusker, going 38-0 through the regular season. Despite his stellar record that year, he lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Whether it was due to dropping too much weight or training too hard, he didn’t peak at the right time to snag a podium spot. After his eligibility was up, he returned home to Oregon with his wife. He trained and coached in the Portland area before accepting an offer to move to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs just two weeks after his daughter was born.

He spent the next four years getting a diverse training experience with the other 24 wrestlers at the center. They traveled internationally and competed around the world - something Matt credits with expanding his style, tactics, and relationships in the wrestling world. After four successful years at the center, he was invited into a coaching position by the University of Nebraska. Excited about the opportunity to pour into younger athletes while continuing to train himself, Matt accepted the position. He was a coach, mentor, competitor, and father during his years in Nebraska. Doors began opening for him to pursue MMA fighting, but he put those on hold to focus on the Olympics - one of his ultimate dreams.

His road to the Olympic team wasn’t easy, however. A misjudged match during the Olympic trials led to a long, drawn out legislative battle. After he was given a re-match and defeated his opponent 9-0, he was finally appointed to the Olympic Team by a Federal judge at the Supreme Court level. But the controversy was not over. Even as he walked into the Opening Ceremony at the 2000 Olympics, the case was being re-arbitrated in International Court. Through the entire process Matt could have been removed from the team at any moment, but continued to train as though he was headed to the mat in Sydney. His hard work and focus paid off as he was not only given the green light to compete, but walked away with a silver medal at the games. His nickname “The Law” was born from the unprecedented judicial intervention required.

On the heels of a successful Olympics, Lindland went on to medal at the World Championships in Japan. Knowing what he was capable of and with the pressure removed, he was able to simply enjoy competing. He transitioned to Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) with the UFC and navigated the ins and outs of a sport that was developing and implementing new rules as well as growing rapidly. Seeking to make a career out of wrestling, Lindland expanded to stunt driving and coordinating fight scenes for movies, opened his own gym in Portland, and continued coaching on the side.

Matt has never been one to back down from a fight, even outside of the ring. In 2008 he discovered that no one from his district was running for the seat in the State House of Representatives. Committed to his community, he stepped up and registered as a candidate. Though he lost in the general election, he appreciated support from his district and the opportunity to invest in it.

As if he couldn’t diversify his talents anymore, while in Oregon a white water rafting team approached him about using space in his gym to train in the off season and invited him to try out the sport sometime. What began as an adventurous outing became “my favorite sporting experience,” Matt confides. The team went on to win seven tournaments and went to the National Championship. Through juggling multiple professional sports, a business, coaching, a horse ranch, and a family, Matt credits his wife with being his steadiness through the storm. “Whatever you want to achieve, you need someone who is a partner with you to navigate the rough waters,” he says.

In 2014 he welcome another new opportunity: coach of the National Greco-Roman Wrestling Team. At this stage in his career, more than anything, Matt appreciates the privilege and responsibility of being a coach. His focus isn’t solely on developing strong athletes, but strong characters, leadership, and integrity. Despite being tough on the mat, Lindland recognizes the crippling struggle with identity, emotional issues, and relational security of so many young athletes. “It’s hard to go through life scared,” he says. “I want young people to know that they are loved and matter more than their sport.” And his coaching style reflects this. He takes his athletes on team building trips, develops retreats that don’t include actual wrestling at all, challenges them in areas outside of their comfort zones, and pursues building one on one relationships aside from training. “Every time you challenge yourself you get less fearful,” says Matt. Whether that is a new training regimen, a new job, a new relationship, or a new level of honesty with oneself, in testing the bounds we become less fearful of what could happen, less focused on our limitations.

Matt’s life has always reflected the magic of chasing what is possible, of confronting new obstacles bravely, and of facing challenges with fists ready.

Follow more of Matt Lindland on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook and be especially inspired by his Leadership Series on his YouTube Channel.

 

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Laura:

[00:00:06] Welcome to the hope sports podcast where each week we have the privilege of hearing from an elite athlete about what made them fall in love with their sport. What parts of their journey were the most challenging and how they find purpose and meaning in their lives outside of medal counts and competitions. This week we not only have an amazing athlete but just one of the most multitalented individuals that I know of. You may know Matt Lindland as a UFC fighter but like me. You may not know about the original sport he wanted to pursue. Or how he owns multiple businesses or that he once ran for political office. Or how it took a Supreme Court ruling to get him on the U.S. Olympic team. Seriously, I can't make this stuff up. You're in store for a fascinating episode as Matt shares his journey and how he kept pursuing dream after dream as they came his way. Thanks for joining me. Now let's dive on in.

 

[00:00:56] Alright Matt Lindland thank you so much for joining us at the hope sports podcast.

 

Matt:

[00:01:00] Absolutely. My pleasure. I'm excited.

 

Laura:

[00:01:02] Well let's just get right to it. So for those that are listening to that may not be as familiar with your background. Can you tell us a little bit how you got started into sports?

 

Matt:

[00:01:10] Well I got started in the sports because I was rural a boy I lived in the country and I grew up you know as an equestrian athlete. I thought I was gonna.

 

Laura:

[00:01:21] Really?

 

Matt:

[00:01:23] Yes really. I thought I was going to compete in the Olympics and either eventing or showjumping or steeplechase or I just. All I ever did from that time I was. From my first memory, I was on a horse and I was probably one of the bus rides. I was one of the best riders in my state and looking to go to the regionals and hoping to go to the Nationals. And my parents informed me that we were poor people and find a new sport. And so I discovered wrestling in high school. And it was very interesting because our gym coach you know he had wrestling and part of the curriculum is the gym class. And so you know of course they're like oh man you're great. You should come out for the team you know. So I was a 98 lbs freshman in high school going out for the wrestling team and I just really fell in love with the sport. And after the season that year when one of our head coaches handed us a fire and was like Yeah there's this freestyle and Roman Greco. And I asked my assistant coach if he knew anything about this Roman Greco thing and he was like I do know that it's called Greco Roman. And I could probably help you prepare for it but that wasn't his expertise. And so I went to the tournament and I don't know if many people have ever done this and gone 8 and 0 and one weekend. Because I entered both the freestyle and both the Graco and Junior and cadet age groups. So. And I.

 

Laura:

[00:02:58] All in one way. How did you have the energy for that?

 

Matt:

[00:03:00] Well you know some of the masters were pretty quick. I just got thrown on my back and then.

 

Laura:

[00:03:07] Wow. Amazing.

 

Matt:

[00:03:07] But also I went on at 8 and I realized that I needed to find a club that had some more lead training. Lo and Behold I show up at this club and the coach at the club was the 1984 Olympic wrestling coach.  And I had amazing coaches at this club every one of my coaches. The head coach there Marc Sprague was an incredible mentor still a mentor of mine to this day. And I owe him a call because I'm working with one of his athletes now. He's 75 and still coaching wrestling.

 

Laura:

[00:03:49] That's awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:03:50] Yeah but you know it took a lot of years to figure out how to do this sport and to get to the level that I wanted to so. Coming out of high school I wasn't a big recruit or anything. So I ended up going to a junior college and I ended up winning a national title. And I did get recruited to a college finally and I went to the University of Nebraska. I had some success there. I was the number one ranked athlete in the country and I was 36-0 going into the national tournament. I lost that first round.

 

Laura:

[00:04:23] Oh my gosh!

 

Matt:

[00:04:23] And so I was not an all-American I wasn't even a placer that year

 

Laura:

[00:04:29] Was OK OK. So you win the junior college like nationals then you go to a D1 school. You're 36-0. You're ranked number one and you lose in the first round at the NCAA. Like what. I mean were you shocked? Like were you. I just. I mean how did you handle that like what was that like?

 

Matt:

[00:04:47] It was a culmination of a lot of things I think it was a long season. They didn't recover me well. They didn't trust me. They wanted me to cut 158lbs and I was probably about 170ish you know? And it was a long season and they didn't pick me at the right time. And that's you know partially my fault but I was a young athlete and still trying to figure this out. And you know change some things up. And so after my eligibility my wife and I and our son we moved back to Oregon which is where I'm from. And she was. She's from Oregon too and she wants to move back there and. I was want to stay in Lincoln and possibly finish up my degree at that time. And you know keep wrestling at the college. But she was ready to move back to Oregon. And I was there for a year I was a coach to three different clubs. I was trying to squeeze training in between. And I actually got invited to move to Colorado Springs at the Olympic Training Center. And we waited till my daughter was born and then two weeks later we moved to Colorado Springs.

 

Laura:

[00:05:54] Wow! Wow! So how? OK. How long had you been wrestling at that point when you got invited to Colorado Springs?

 

Matt:

[00:06:00] So I started in 85 and this was 94

 

Laura:

[00:06:06] OK. Wow! So that's very cool. Now. OK. For your age, cause you seem to start late and you started in high school. And that seems kind of was that kind of late?

 

Matt:

[00:06:13] I think it is pretty late for you know a lot of guys. But you know in my experience I think there's like a really good 10year window. You know like you know. And you can be really good in high school or college and then you're kind of done. And since I started late it allowed me to continue on. And I didn't win my first medal till I was 30

 

Laura:

[00:06:38] Oh wow. That's awesome. So what. OK. What was training at the Olympic Training Center like? I mean that's something people just dream of you know. What was that like?

 

Matt:

[00:06:46] It was exciting. I was moving out to Colorado Springs and you know I got out here. And at that time you know things have changed here in Colorado Springs with the amount of athletes they actually will how is it. That time I think we get over I think it was like 24-26 of us. Lots of training partners lots of opportunities to travel internationally and compete all over the world. And just you know chase our dreams and do what we love to do. And it was a credible opportunity but it was also very difficult. And so after 3 years 3 and a half years of doing that my former coach at Nebraska offered to hire me for a job. And I wasn't quite sure because I needed to have you know I needed training. I needed to get to international tournaments I needed training partners and he offered to do all those things. And so I ended up moving to Lincoln and my last four years of wrestling right up to the Olympics was that whole quad I was training out of Nebraska. And at that time getting to mentor other athletes.

 

Laura:

[00:07:56] OK. Now, this is awesome. So you are coaching, your training, you have a wife, you have two children, and didn't you also start doing MMA stuff around this time?

 

Matt:

[00:08:07] I did. Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:08:10] How did you do all this stuff?

 

Matt:

[00:08:12] I took three flights in MMA in 1997 right after I moved in Nebraska. And I realized that I was going to be a lot of fun but it was gonna be you know pretty much the same kind of journey. And so I took those three flights all relatively close. I think two of them were on one night the other one was like a month away. And I put that on hold because I knew that to reach my goals and wrestling and get on the podium it was gonna take a lot of sacrifices. A lot of discipline. And I couldn't really split my time between doing MMA. So I really put that on hold. But the games were in October that year and December I started the fight in the UFC.

 

Laura:

[00:08:55] Wow. OK. So the Olympics were the big goal the big dream. Like what was it like finally getting there and being in that environment. Like, take us through that.

 

Matt:

[00:09:04] Well Laura it was quite the process. I don't know how much research you did but there was a court case too for me to get on the Olympic team.

 

Laura:

[00:09:15] Oh wait isn't this right? You got your nickname through this, didn’t you?

 

Matt:

[00:09:17] I did.

 

Laura:

[00:09:19] So what. OK. [00:09:20] What was that all like? But that was part of qualifying for the team?

 

Matt:

[00:09:23] The shows only you know half hour 40 minutes. That longer time. But I'll give you the really short version. The Olympic trials were misjudged. They didn't apply the rules properly at the Olympic trials. And then they didn't allow me to protest. They said it was a judgment call and I said it was a misapplication and there was just you we're splitting hairs there. You know it's judgment its a misapplication. And so they refused to give me due process at the Olympic trials. And so my only recourse was to go to the Greco-Roman sports committee and have my case heard in front of my peers and the Greco-Roman sports committee there. They make a committee up and then they started pulling members off of the committee that may have had bias. Well, that's why you have a committee is because everybody has bias. And so you have multiple people but you can't pull people off the committee that you think may vote one way or the other because they may have a bias. So again I was denied due process I went to an arbitrator and this was my last chance. The arbitrator ordered the match be re-wrestled. I beat the opponent 9 to 0. Now if you beat your opponent by 8 the match is over. But at that time it was 10. So it was pretty close to know to technical superiority. And then the real fun happened. They didn't make me to the team.

 

Laura:

[00:10:55] Even after you beat him in the rematch?

 

Matt:

[00:10:57] Yeah. They were they did not name me to the team. And so we had to go to a federal judge and they forced the United States Olympic Committee and USA wrestling to put me on the team. And then once I got on the team they allowed the case to be radically arbitrated. And that is the oddest thing because arbitration is final and binding.

 

Laura:

[00:11:20] Right. Oh my gosh. That’s super sad.

 

Matt:

[00:11:20] The case was arbitrated. See I tell you this a long story. It's crazy. The other day the case while ultimately went to the United States Supreme Court. And they upheld the ruling of the federal judge and I left for processing that same day. I got the ruling and we processed in San Diego that year.

 

Laura:

[00:11:43] So when were your trials? And then what was the timeline with all of these cases up until we left? Because like it was in September. We left it was like the end of September when the Olympics started. So when were your trials?

 

Matt:

[00:11:56] Elsewhere in June.

 

Laura:

[00:11:57] OK. Wow. How did you keep your head straight during all of that?

 

Matt:

[00:12:02] You know I. It was difficult. It was very difficult but I had a vision I had goals and I have faith. Oh, a lot of Arizona. And just you know to stand strong. I mean there were definitely moments where I wasn't sure. And I just kept training through the whole process.

 

Laura:

[00:12:24] Did you have like I mean support around you? Did you kind of feel all alone at that point?

 

Matt:

[00:12:29] Well I feel pretty alone. But I you know I have a wonderful life that I've been married to for 27 years and I have two children that love me. And I have some great coaches that that supported me. But you know nobody could tell me Hey you for sure you're gonna get this spot. You know we just kept praying and hoping that that was the case and you just kept training through this whole process. And then when I got to Australia we went to a city a couple of hours away in Canberra and had our acclimation camp. The day I walked in opening some ceremonies they were gonna be arbitrating the case in the International Court of Arbitration for Sport.

 

Laura:

[00:13:11] Are you serious?

 

Matt:

[00:13:12] Yeah. The day I was walking opening ceremonies. So this thing was like never gonna end. And fortunately, they woke a federal judge up in Chicago at like 3:00 in the morning. You know they were calling from Australia and he said you know what you guys won you beat me. Just know that if you plan on coming back to the United States we'll have air marshals waiting for you in contempt. And so if you guys choose to do this you know go ahead. But they ended up not going forward with that last case and I wrestled the games and made it to the finals and got a silver medal that year.

 

Laura:

[00:13:52] Which is amazing. Amazing. I mean what. Ok. What was the experience like to be in the Olympics? You walked in the opening ceremony is greeted with this cloud hanging over you. But like were you able to at least enjoy that and soak in that Olympic spirit or what was that like? Take us through that.

 

Matt:

[00:14:06] Now it was. You know what I had some great training partners. I had one of my best friends dearest friend. He was an alternative. He did not make the team that year. He was away class below me. He was one of my training partners at every camp. And he left camp early went to Sydney and got an apartment right next to the venue that had saunas and a place to recover. And relax in between rounds and before the weigh-ins. And so you know I just really kind of pulled myself away and just surrounded myself with loved ones and people that really cared about me and supported me. I didn't really get into the whole Olympic thing. My kids were pretty young. They were four and six at the time and my wife was there and they were staying there. And I just remember the one night though. My daughter and my son and my wife came to visit me and my daughter says you're going to go home with us tonight. And I was like yes. Yes! So excited.

 

Laura:

[00:15:16] They were things in real perspective, did they?

 

Matt:

[00:15:18] You know they do and they help us keep things in perspective. And a lot of what's really important and that was really what was important to me. It wasn't the after parties it wasn't the opening ceremonies in the village. And I mean those things are great. And I met Muhammad Ali in the village and I mean that was cool things that happened at the games. But ultimately it was just you know being able to have that opportunity to compete and you know try to try to pursue my highest goals for the for my career.

 

Laura:

[00:15:51] That's awesome. That's awesome. And the next year you got a silver at the World Cup and I think that's when you retired after that, right?

 

Matt:

[00:15:57] Next year was the World Championships.

 

Laura:

[00:15:59] World Championships. OK.

 

Matt:

[00:16:00] And I moved up a weight class because I was almost done. I started fighting right after the Olympics. The games were in early October and I fought early December in the UFC in Japan that year. And I started fighting throughout that year and the World Championships were going to be held in New York City in September of 2001. And so I had a great training camp and I was getting ready to go to the World Championships and somebody crashed some planes into the World Trade Center. And so they cancelled the worlds they postponed it till December. So I had a new training camp and new preparation and really enjoyable process honestly even through what was going on in the world and everything. The fact that I was just having fun and enjoying it because I really at that point didn't care of I made the team. I just wanted to go compete and have fun and I didn't carry all that pressure of wanting to win wanting to win and. I was able to put things in a better perspective. I was a little older. I've already won a medal at the Olympics. I knew what I was capable of doing but I wasn't sure that I knew weight class. I was moving up you know from 76 kilos to 87 kilos. It was quite a jump.

 

Laura:

[00:17:27] Oh wow. Mm-hmm. That's cool. That's cool. So following that you went kind of full time into UFC staff right? And that was kind of new at that time wasn’t it?

 

Matt:

[00:17:37] It was pretty new. It was not owned by the current owners at the time. And the current owners you know the Fertitta brothers and Dana White. Those guys weren't involved back then. But after my first fight they had purchased the company and started making some big changes. And you know with a lot of the rules were just coming into place. You know my first fights were there was like three rules no biting no eye gouging and I think you can attack somebody in the groin. And I was like.

 

Laura:

[00:18:08] And that's it. Those are the only rules.

 

Matt:

[00:18:10] That was it you know. And as things progressed they started putting in more rules and made it more of a sport. And now it's a worldwide sport.

 

Laura:

[00:18:19] that's so cool to be part of something like it's inception like that. Well I guess. Why did you decide to be done with wrestling and go into more of this mixed martial arts kind of arena?

 

Matt:

[00:18:30] The living and an athlete.

 

Laura:

[00:18:32] I wish you wouldn’t do that. Come on.

 

Matt:

[00:18:35] There wasn't a lot of prize money in wrestling and you know. You know it's in the name price fighter you know so I was like OK I'm going to go fight for a prize. And I just. I had a different perspective on things it was like Yeah I want to be the best in the world but I also want to make a living doing what I love to do. And that allowed me to do that.

 

Laura:

[00:18:58] That's awesome. We don't have much of that opportunity in diving like now. A lot of people go into kind of Cirque du Soleil type stuff. That's kind of our diving after they're done with their Olympic runs or their college runs. They're all kind of going into the circus shows now our performances on back of cruise ships and things. It’s kinda crazy.

 

Matt:

[00:19:16] Make a decent living such thing? Okay.

 

Laura:

[00:19:17] Well yeah. Well not quite that much I don't think. But they make a living. So yeah I hear you. So now I heard you also were a stunt man in some TV shows and films. Like what was. As an acrobat I've always wanted to do that. I always thought that would be so awesome. Is as cool as I think it is.

 

Matt:

[00:19:36] Honestly. Yes if you prefer.

 

Laura:

[00:19:40] Yes! I love hearing that.

 

Matt:

[00:19:41] I got to do some fight scenes. I had some opportunities to drive cars in New York City when they shut the streets down and use some different things like that on leverage. I did this one show called The tap out job. And it was great because they asked me to actually coordinate the fight scenes throughout. It was a television show that one but I've done some film as well. And I brought a lot of guys from my gym was like oh we need backup guy we need background people hidden bags and in the gym. And you know we need some preliminary fights so you know I got to hire you know a lot of people and coordinate some stuff. But that really was a lot of fun. But I never wanted to be famous. That was never a goal of mine. I enjoyed the work. I enjoyed doing the stunt work and being on camera and be on set. That was fun. But then it was never a goal of mine to be famous. So I just didn't continue to pursue that as much as I probably could have if that was really what I was driven to do. I was still fighting at the time. So it was in between fights. It was just an opportunity to make some extra cash and do some fun and exciting.

 

Laura:

[00:21:05] Well you did a lot of fun and exciting things. I love how one thing keeps taking you to the next thing and you also took a little dip into politics. So I have to ask was that fighting rougher than like being in the octagon?

 

Matt:

[00:21:16] Oh my gosh. Politics so annoying. And you know I ran as a conservative and I'm barely a conservative. And I'm leaning way more conservative than I do liberal. But I'm like this like almost anarchist libertarian. I'm like that far right? I'm farther right than most conservatives but in a more freedom kind of way. So it was interesting. I won a primary a very heated primary. And the thing was you know they didn't have anybody running for my seat in my district. And I was running for a State House seat. And so the last day of filing I've put my name on the computer and I started getting all these calls like why are you doing this? Who are you? What do you do? I was like well I'm going to represent my community and my people and what we got.

 

Laura:

[00:22:12] So was this not really like thought through? Like you just kind of on a whim nobody's running I should run or haven’t thought about this?

 

Matt:

[00:22:17] It was my strength coach and I we talked about it for months. Like you know I wonder if anybody's going to fill that seat. You know like you know and then like that morning after a workout I went home got on my computer and registered to run for the seat. And then all of a sudden they're like oh we've got somebody. I said well that's great if you got somebody you know let me out and I'll support them if I get on board. But you know I wasn't into I don't know how to put this any other way. But you know that the opponent was running against me was really pro-abortion. And that was kind of one of my big issues was I'm pro-life I'm very pro-life. So that was a hard thing for me to get over I said I can't support this individual and I'm going to have to try to run against her. So I did that and then I lost the general election on a two point margin.

 

Laura:

[00:23:22] Wow.

 

Matt:

[00:23:22] Yeah I did my whatever into politics a little bit.

 

Laura:

[00:23:30] Well I love that you stand up for what you believe in and you are not afraid of a fight whether it's in the ring or in the office. That's awesome. I love it.

 

Matt:

[00:23:37] You left out my probably my most favorite sport that I took up after this. You know what it was?

 

Laura:

[00:23:42] Oh no. What?

 

Matt:

[00:23:45] I raised professionally Whitewater.

 

Laura:

[00:23:48] Whitewater. OK. How did that happen?

 

Matt:

[00:23:51] OK. This is a great story because I have a gym. I have a martial arts school in Portland and it's also a fitness center. And this team of Whitewater racers asked me if I would donate some space for them to train in the offseason. While they couldn't do whitewater training if they could get in my gym and do strength and conditioning. And so I gave them some space and some time. We have a pretty big martial arts studio we have like two different mat rooms. Like we can have a kickboxing class going on in one room and a jiu jitsu or grappling class and the other and then I have a fitness area. And our fitness classes run 4 or 5 and 6 and so our martial arts classes go till like 9:00 o'clock at night. So I gave the the raft team my space and said Yeah come on in we're still training and nobody's in the fitness area you guys can use that. And then they invited me to go watch a race and then they convinced me to get in the boat with on that day and.

 

Laura:

[00:24:56] Of course. I'm guessing you are not hard to convince.

 

Matt:

[00:24:59] No no no. I was like I lost my whitewater sir. Let's go. And then the next weekend I start racing with that team. And I won seven regional titles which is the western region. Which is like basically the entire West Coast Washington, California, Oregon, Idaho, Montana that whole area where there is water.

 

Laura:

[00:25:25] And so how long had you been doing it when you started winning all the titles?

 

Matt:

[00:25:29] I got on a really good team and we just started winning but we never won the nationals we were second one year in third twice.

 

Laura:

[00:25:41] Man! So is this why you were coaching full time so you weren't still also fighting or were you still.

 

Matt:

[00:25:47] Still fighting MMA.

 

Laura:

[00:25:48] Of course you were.

 

Matt:

[00:25:49] And I was coaching and I had a ranch with 16 horses and.

 

Laura:

[00:25:57] Wow. And I'm starting to think your wife must be pretty incredible too. To like hold down the fort and the kids and everything else. I'm sure.

 

Matt:

[00:26:06] My wife is amazing she she surprises me every day you know with her. Just her kindness and generosity and her love and we're just down Oregon for the holidays. We live in Colorado Springs now because I'm the national coach for the Greco-Roman Olympic team. And my kids they still live in Oregon. They're 24 and 26 now. We went back there to visit our kids and my wife's father's dying and. He's just not a not a nice person at all and never was a great father but she is like an amazing daughter. Like she was just out there every other day we were driving two hours to the coast. And she was taking care of his affairs and his nurses and his hospice and his bills. And just being patient and kind and loving and I was just. She just impressed me more and more every day. So yeah she is a wonderful person. And you need that kind of support when you're whatever you're doing in life. I mean whatever you want to achieve in life you need somebody that's a partner with you and can help you navigate the rough waters.

 

Laura:

[00:27:20] Definitely. Definitely. And now like you mentioned you are now the head Team USA wrestling coach since like 2014 right?

 

Matt:

[00:27:28] Yes I took the job in 2014 right before the World Championships. And now I served on one Olympics in Rio and that was a lot of fun. But we didn't come back with any medals that year. And last year we got a silver medal at the World Championships and we've got two other bronze medals from one individual. And now it's a lot of team building. I mean you're dealing with. You've dealt with a lot of young men that they're not you know like they don't trust people they don't. Because I think there's this a huge father crisis. I just think there's a lot of dads that have abandoned these young men and they're like tough guys. But they're really not tough. The tough men on the mats but in life they just have a lot of difficulties because they don't trust people. They don't know how to be loved because they've never been loved necessarily and they don't know you know just as. It's hard. It’s hard working with some of these young guys nowadays. Because there's a lot of guys that just come from these broken families. And they all seem to end up in the sport of wrestling or MMA.

 

Laura:

[00:28:49] Alright. Well I guess it's a good outlet that way at least. But I mean do you find yourself when you're coaching. Is it more than technique and stuff that you're having to work on their their hearts and their minds more?

 

Matt:

[00:28:59] That's exactly what you know that was part of the reason I wanted to take our guys down to Mexico to build homes with the hope sports. And I just want to understand that they're more than just an athlete. They’re you know there are people that are valued. They’re you know God loves them and. But it's you know it's tough to share that message you know all the time with guys. You just gonna do it by example and by showing them that you care about them. But yeah we work on a lot of character strength stuff. We have a lot of different times where we're meeting about this camp that's coming up. I mean we identified five areas that my athletes identified. I know I put them in a room and I sat him down and I put them into small groups I said come back. You know there's got to be some things that we can get better as a team. And I'm not talking about wrestling I'm not talking about conditioning or skills or techniques. I'm talking about what do we need to get better as a team and our athletes did a really good job identifying the five areas. And one of them was first of all was communication. And then it was trust and respect for a sense of urgency, professionalism, and image. Because they know that they're not always doing the right things. So we talk about these things but it's like we've got to leave these things and we've got to day in day out. And so we're working on some things this camp that's coming up. Every day has got a different theme. One day is communication and we're going to have morning briefings we're gonna have the evening meetings. And in the middle of the day we're going to train wrestling.

 

Laura:

[00:30:40] Mm-hmm. That's great. So I guess you're working with the coaches too on hitting kind of those those things as well is that right?

 

Matt:

[00:30:47] Yes.

 

Laura:

[00:30:48] Awesome. Well and I love on your Web site. As I was stalking you for this podcast. That's what my favorite things to do with really cool people. You had this really cool blog post titled A coach's prayer. And I love your heart to serve and to raise up your athletes and your kids I imagine. It's just awesome. And so since we're on this podcast you know we strive to get to kind of the heart of purpose in people's lives either through or beyond their performance. And I'd love you to address that specifically for us? Like how do you help the athletes that you coach or the coaches that you coach even? Like know that their identities not just wrapped up in their results at the end of the competition. Like how do you help them find that purpose beyond their performance?

 

Matt:

[00:31:28] Well I think a lot of those. You know every year since I've been the coach we go out to Oregon for our base camp. After the team is made I'll get the guys recovering for a week and resting up. And then we were gonna say like we're going to jumpstart things with conditioning. So I tell him we're going to go out and do a lot of strength conditioning we're not going to do a lot of mat work going to stay off the mat. But during those times you know we go take him whitewater rafting you know. I take him out in nature and we would do hikes. I mean I just think it's so important to get out and see what God created and just be in his. Because most of my athletes are urban men. They come from you know Chicago and New York and you know bigger cities. And so it's a really unique experience to get them out there. And I just had Ellis Coleman one of my athletes and his wife over for dinner and as his young daughter she's three and. I mean it's just I think it's just those type of things you know building relationships with your athletes one on one, small groups, small teams. But you know I mean as a national team coach I mean I've got 30 guys that are on national team. So it's hard to have those one on ones when you have those camps. So you've got to Ellis lives and down and I just invite them over a couple weeks ago. It’s like Hey what day it is when I come over dinner it's like I'm looking forward to this. Great! You know? And so it's stuff like that I mean I bought some lawn furniture that came from amazon I had to put it together. It is like Ikea put together stuff.

 

Laura:

[00:33:08] Oh yes. Like everything in our house.

 

Matt:

[00:33:11] This is basically like Ikea lawn furniture. You know I asked one of my guys you know hey you come over and I hand them a little screws. And he's putting them in and we're just having conversations. It's finding those times just where it's not scheduled is not planned. It's just you know how we put my furniture together come over for dinner. You know let's go for a hike. It's those things. And I did take a small group down in Mexico and that was great. And they got to see me interact with my daughter and her boyfriend. And every year when we go to camp in Oregon my daughter comes over. And they she brings the board games and we have a board game night with the team. And those things are really important. I think they go a long ways.

 

Laura:

[00:34:04] Yeah definitely. And I know you mentioned the hope sports builds a couple of times. If you guys aren't familiar with that hope sports is a great organization. They bring down athletes to build homes for the poor in Mexico. And it's really cool because you do this amazing thing for this family who you know has nothing. And it's just going to really completely change their lives their children's lives everything. But it impacts the athletes so much and a different type of relationship is built a different outlook on life is built. And it's just huge and I love that you took your whole team out there because that's an amazing way to bond as a team going through such a life changing experience together like that.

 

Matt:

[00:34:39] Yeah. And I do. I mean I love whitewater rafting you know and I don't take these guys down when I go down. But you know I'll get them out on a class three run and it will splash and giggle and have fun and you know. So I mean these guys like I said these guys they're most of them are scared of stuff like that. They're fearful. They're frightened. And going through life scared as is would have to be difficult. It would have to be really hard. I don't know why there's so much fear in young men these days. But I try to fix that somehow by creating these different opportunities to where they have to face their fears. Every time you challenge yourself you get stronger and you get less fearful of whatever it is. I think all those things carry over life.

 

Laura:

[00:35:33] I think you just hit the nail on the head. I think to face a fear that's outside of maybe your sport or where you during all the time is a great way to begin to learn how to do that. Because I've met so many people who try to put their fears off and pretend they don't exist and push them away. But then it just it's almost like it gets bigger you know. But when you face it and you deal with it and you begin to confront it it loses its power right. And so I think what you do is brilliant. Like getting them kind of over that and maybe something outside of their normal realms. So they learn that they can face these things like can overcome these things. Because you can't be brave unless you're first afraid. Right? I mean we're not fearless we're terrified people but we choose to be brave and like confront that. I think that's awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:36:11] Yeah. And you know we climb a couple of 14 hours here in Colorado that for the listeners that's a 14000 foot mountain. And I think there's like 50 of them and we've done a couple real easy ones you know. But I've had these guys talk about you know like I started the character development leadership and character development show on YouTube. So I'm doing a podcast as well. And it's on my coach Matt Lindland YouTube channel. But you know and that was really. I did that because one of the guys said coach you'd never give us a leadership training. I was like OK let's see. I sent you out to the Marines for their leadership training course. When I walked to the top of a 14000 ft mountain together with me leading the way the whole way let's say. And I just kept going through these things. But you know what I'll do more stuff for you than help you with leadership. And that's what we're going to tackle in this next week coming up in our camp. Is we're going to talk about some some different ways to become a leader. And I think those five areas that are athletes identified are five areas that we can really hone in on and develop leadership through those areas for sure.

 

Laura:

[00:37:23] Oh yeah. Be great. Well, where can we follow you online to kind of continue to be inspired and encouraged. And led by you because you're just awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:37:33] MLinland just @mlindland. My first initial last name on Instagram. That's part of the one that I can deal with the most. But I think the best thing would be in coach Matt Lindland YouTube channel. That's where I'm doing a leadership show. I'm putting up some clips.

 

Laura:

[00:37:49] So awesome. I'll make sure to link all those things in the show notes so people can find you there. But I do have to ask you one thing before we go. You've tried so many different things. Have you ever jumped off a 10 meter platform?

 

Matt:

[00:38:00] Yeah of course.

 

Laura:

[00:38:01] OK. Well good. So we can do synchro now.

 

Matt:

[00:38:03] I did. OK. So I did it. I did it gainer off it.

 

Laura:

[00:38:06] Oh you see. I love it. Not only do you jump you do a gainer off of it. This is awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:38:11] Then I did a full game where I landed on my feet. Then I was like OK I'm going to do a one and a half. And I landed on my side and lost like all my life. Puerto Rico at the Olympic Training Center in Puerto Rico. You ever get that one.

 

Laura:

[00:38:28] No I haven't.

 

Matt:

[00:38:29] Oh my gosh it was. I barely got to the side of the pool because I couldn't breathe. But not quite went out but yeah. And then in Lincoln when my first year as a coach it was so fun. I'll tell you the story and then we'll go. So there's the platform up there in Lincoln in their pool. And so I got one of those folding mats that you know like the gym issues and they fold?

 

Laura:

[00:38:53] Oh no. Did you set up a slip and slide?

 

Matt:

[00:38:55] Aaaah! You know what it is!

 

Laura:

[00:38:58] Of course of 10 meter?

 

Matt:

[00:39:00] Oh yeah!

 

Laura:

[00:39:01] Oh nice. So what did you. Did you just dive or did you flip?

 

Matt:

[00:39:04] Oh yeah. We did everything. We got. You could get a up way across the pool side of that 10 meter. And the security guard pulls me in the next day and said Matt we need to talk. Because he pulls me in his office he shows me the video he goes my eyes only no worry.

 

Laura:

[00:39:26] Oh my God. OK. Next time I come up to Colorado Springs I'm calling you. And we are going diving together or you're taking me whitewater rafting or climbing a mountain or something.

 

Matt:

[00:39:35] Let me know. I would love to take you down the Royal Gorge. I've got a boat here. I've got a I've got a raft. I got a couple of kayaks and.

 

Laura:

[00:39:42] I'm not going to lie. I would probably be scared but I think it would be awesome.

 

Matt:

[00:39:45] It is scary. And like you can do it. It's the most rafting section in America. Everybody does it. But. Not everybody does it my style.

 

Laura:

[00:39:58] Well I'm sure that would be exciting. So I will take you up on that hopefully one day soon. That's really cool. Well Matt thank you so much for coming on for sharing all your wisdom, your heart with us, your stories. We really appreciate it.

 

Matt:

[00:40:10] My pleasure thank you so much.

 

Laura:

[00:40:13] Isn't he just incredible. I mean aside from all the things that I learned about his career I think it's just amazing how through all of it he remains unwaveringly committed to the character and leadership development of his team. To be so accomplished yet to still have the humility to find his worth and his integrity. It's just amazing. So many thanks to Matt for joining us today and I hope you get a chance to check out his youtube channel. Coach Matt Lindland. Matt is doing amazing things in the leadership development of athletes and he just has so much wisdom about how we not only grow as competitors but as people. Looking to improve their athletic performance with purpose? I'm offering a free live masterclass where I'll teach you how to improve your athletic performance without spending more hours in the gym. If you're ready for change and you want to take your performance to the next level then I want you to go and sign up at LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass. That's LauraWilkinson.com/masterclass to sign up for my free live masterclass on improving your athletic performance. I'll see you there. Be sure to join us next week as we have Olympic sprinter and bobsledder Lauren Williams joining us. On behalf of hope sports. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for tuning in and have a great week. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and access the complete archives please visit HopeSports.org.

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About This Episode

The youngest of nine kids, Dan Jansen was no stranger to tagging along, and in rural Wisconsin that usually meant to the ice. He got on his first pair of skates as a toddler and whizzed around frozen lakes and ponds. He tried other sports over the years, but always came back to skating where he was unmatched in speed for his age. In 1984 at only 18 years old, Jansen went to his first Olympics in Sarajevo and fondly remembers the care-free experience. Because he was relatively unknown, there was no pressure to reach the podium and he could fully enjoy the opening and closing ceremonies, the camaraderie between athletes, and the magic of the games. His goal was to be in the top ten fastest times in the 500 meter event and he ended up coming in fourth, just barely missing bronze. Dan returned home elated and proud of his finish at his first Olympics, but, for the first time, was faced with public perception and media scrutiny. For while his expectations were exceeded, others appeared disappointed that he didn’t medal at the games.

Knowing the podium was within reach, Dan poured even more into his training. He won the World Championship in 1988 and was favored to win in the 500m that winter at the Olympics games in Calgary. “Going in favored to win is one of the hardest things an athlete can do,” recalls Jansen. The awe of the games was long gone, as he was down to business, focused on his race, eyes on gold. Despite the fact that he was skating incredibly that week, there was something weighing heavy on his mind. Back home his older sister, Jane, had been battling leukemia for over a year. After receiving rounds of chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant, she was in stable condition when Dan bid her goodbye before leaving for Calgary. But his dad, who had been with him at the games, was called back home before Dan’s race to be with her as she took a turn for the worse. On the morning of the race, February 14, Dan got a call at 6:00 am that she had passed away.

Racked by the shock of her dead, Dan barely managed to eat breakfast before returning to his room and collapsing into tears. Four hours before the start he summoned the strength to put on his uniform and lace up his skates. There was much debate over whether or not he should even compete, but knowing that Jane was his biggest fan, the family assured him that it’s what she would have wanted. Stepping on to the ice, his legs felt like lead, exhausted by the emotions of the day. He did his best to loosen up, but stepped up to the starting line feeling disoriented--and crashed just 100 meters into the 500 meter race.

Three days later, once the initial shock had worn off, Dan found himself on the ice again preparing for the 1000 meter race. He considered leaving between the two events, but his family and coach encouraged him to finish his races before returning. As he stepped on to the ice, he felt more physically prepared, but his heart was still with his family. Again, he fell on a turn and recalls, “I just wanted to be home.” He got off the ice, packed his bag, and was home that evening without any goodbyes, not caring in the least the outcome.

When he was twelve his dad once told him, “there’s more to life than skating in little circles,” and that never felt more true. Dan took time to be with his family after his sister’s death and went back to skating because, “I just didn’t know what else to do.” He buried himself in training and competing and even won a World Cup that year, but admitted that he skated to avoid facing the pain. Wanting to distance himself from his reality, he enrolled in the University of Calgary and intended to train there as well. When he arrived the following fall and stepped on to the same track, all of the trauma of race day came flooding back. Even though it was a year later, Dan finally had to wrestle with his grief.

Dan arrived at the 1992 Winter Olympics in Albertville on the heels of a new World Record he set while dominating the international circuit across Europe. He refers to the 92 Games as the most “puzzling” of his Olympics. Perhaps it was overconfidence or over-resting, but he lost his typical spark and missed the podium in both events. Befuddled and frustrated, Dan left the games and again faced media scrutiny for his performance. Reporters even referred to him as “The Big Choke” of the games as, once again, he didn’t race to his potential.

On his way to the 1996 Olympics in Lillehamer, Dan got married and welcome his daughter, Jane, named after his sister. The five fastest times ever skated in the 500 meters all belonged to him, so truly, this was a race against himself. He fully expected the journey to come to a happy ending, but pushed himself too hard and caught the edge of his skate on a turn causing a wobble that would, again, cost him a medal. Despite his initial frustration, Jansen was in a different position mentally. “I thought to myself, ‘it was one place that you slipped, it doesn’t mean you are not skating well.’”, he said. He knew that public perception would be relentless about his loss, but he could still walk away proud of his career even without an Olympic medal. He walked into the 1000 meter race, the final professional race of his life, knowing that if he did his best, he could retire happy. He had seized the power to define success for himself. When he crossed the finish line and saw the World Record time, he knew that this race would finally deliver that long awaited medal. Even his rivals were thrilled for him, one pulling him aside to say, “It’s about time.” As he stood at the top of the podium soaking in the National Anthem, he recalled all of the people who helped him along the way to this moment - the trainers, coaches, friends, and family--especially his sister Jane.

Leaving Lillehamer, “it was like a weight off of my shoulders,” he says. He may have retired, but he did not slow down. The Dan Jansen Foundation was soon established to help support non-medical costs for families with loved ones battling cancer. Everything from hospital stays, to food, to transportation - Dan knew first hand what a toll cancer takes on an entire family. He continues to advocate and fundraise for research for leukemia as well as speak around the world. “If you use your sport to make you a better person, then you’ve won,” he says. Through the ups and downs, victories and pitfalls, Dan’s perseverance shaped his character and has become his legacy.
Find out more about the Dan Jansen Foundation and follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

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About This Episode

Before most people could doggy paddle, Dana Vollmer was swimming competitively. The daughter of a swim coach, she was in the water at such an early age that she cannot even explicitly remember learning how. By age eleven she was swimming year round and at age twelve she stepped on to the block at her first Olympic trials. A self described “feisty competitor”, Dana always focused on her times, never her age, and was frustrated to not make the team that year. Her father gently reminded her that, although she took 49th place, that meant that 51 other elite athletes had just been beaten by a twelve year old.

In the wake of the Olympic trials, Dana decided to train even harder, with her hopes set on the 2004 games in Athens. One afternoon during training when she was 14, her heart rate soared and wouldn’t slow down. This happened several more times and prompted a trip to a cardiologist where it was discovered that she had an extra electrical pathway in her heart. She had immediate surgery to correct the issue, but still had other markers for a genetic heart disorder that was known to cause sudden death in young athletes. It was the advice of her doctors that she give up swimming entirely.

Weighing Dana’s dreams with the potentially tragic outcome was incredibly difficult. But at the end of the day, “my parents did not want fear to control my life,” says Dana. They decided to let their daughter continue doing what she loved, but in the safest way possible. That meant her mother sat poolside at every practice with a defibrillator clenched in her hands in the event that her daughter’s heart stopped mid-race. Year after year the risks lingered over her as she swam. It wasn’t until she interviewed her mother for a medical research paper in college that Dana truly understood her mom’s position. “She managed to shield her fear from me so that I didn’t carry it,” says Dana. Her mother used to check on her at night to make sure she was still breathing, didn’t ever want to her to anything scary or startling, and, quite literally, held her daughter’s life in her hand at every meet.

Putting health concerns aside, at age sixteen Dana stepped back on to the block at another Olympic trials. This time, however, she was older, more mature, and learned how to focus on just her race. Not only did she make the team, but won Olympic gold in the 4x200 relay and set a new World Record. She headed home overwhelmed, proud, and straight into the halls of a typical high school. “It felt like half the school loved me for what I had done -- and half hated me,” she says. She struggled with how to be herself--an athlete and a normal teenager--within the public eye. A disc injury in her back completely threw her training for the year and added another component of uncertainty. Eager to move on from the awkward season she was in, she graduated high school a year early and headed to the University of Florida. Amidst a new team, new coaches, and new friends, she felt even greater pressure to live up to her reputation. The mismatch she felt with the training program and the staff compelled her to transfer to Cal-Berkeley after just one year.

Despite the improved fit at Cal-Berkeley, she was still grappling internally with her interpretation of other people’s expectations and with her fragmented identity. At her third Olympic trials in 2008, “I was in tears behind my goggles before I even swam,” she shares. The World Record holder failed to make the Olympic team in every single one of her events. Ashamed and disappointed, Dana went to stay with a friend, hoping to just disappear. Two of her coaches, Terry McKeever and Milt Nelms, recognized that she needed to get away from competition and gain some perspective. Milt founded a “Learn to Swim” program in Fiji, an island nation with huge drowning rates, and invited Dana to join on an upcoming trip. She spent time teaching others how to swim and said, “It was amazing to realize that it wasn’t all about Olympic level swimming.” For once it wasn’t about proving herself or finishing with a certain time - it was about doing something for others that made a difference. She specifically remembers a final open water relay race from island to island with the students. In the midst of the beautiful ocean, with the fish and the sky and new friends, far outside of her bubble, she remembered that she truly just loved to swim. And she wasn’t ready to be done.

She returned to California with a fresh understanding that it was her mentality, not her physicality that needed a reform. Other areas of her life began to get the attention that they needed. She worked with a therapist, got married, sorted out food sensitivities, and balanced her training. “I took a look at my entire life, realizing that everything impacts how you race and how you train. All areas need to be happy to be the best athlete that you can be,” she says. And the results spoke for themselves. At the 2012 Olympics in London Dana won three gold medals and set two more World Records. In retrospect, Dana says that she wouldn’t be the athlete she is today if it weren’t for missing the Olympic team in 2008.

She briefly considered retiring after such a successful 2012 games, but the momentum was too alluring. Although she made the World Championships the following year, nagging shoulder and back issues needed to be tended to. She never actually signed retirement papers, but decided to take a break to see what life was like outside of competitive athletics. She studied architecture and design, bought a house in the suburbs, and became pregnant with her first son. During the final eight weeks of her pregnancy she was put on strict bedrest. Sitting still was brutal, and after giving birth she hopped back in the water to get back in shape the only way she knew how. The 2016 Olympic trials were only a year away, but she committed to train for them. “It wasn’t about the goal, it was about the lifestyle I wanted to have,” she says. She knew that she was the best version of herself when she live an intentionally balanced life - and that included swimming.

Dana was elated to make the 2016 Olympic team, but heading back to training camp as a mom had its unique challenges. Not many swimmers had families and she had to advocate for time with her son and a training regimen that fit her postpartum. Again, Dana medaled large in Rio de Janeiro, taking home gold, silver, and bronze medals. But participating as a mother changed the way that she related with her teammates, trained, and viewed competition. Out of her own longing for community, Dana has started the Power of Mom movement to help give a voice, encouragement, and motivation to elite athletes who are mothers and may feel isolated in their sport. She even took her family to Denmark to spend time training with one of her former rivals who also recently had a daughter, but still has Olympic dreams for 2020.

At each competition, Dana still feels the results-based mindset start to creep back in. She has to resist the temptation to analyze others’ expectations and constantly let go of the need to prove herself. “I always have to step back and realize that this is about my journey, racing, and doing what I love,” she says. She believes that there is a faster butterfly technique out there and is determined to discover it as she aspires to the Olympics in Beijing. These days, however, training looks like family trips to camps, workouts around her kids’ schedules, and swimming in the open ocean. But now, more than ever, her life is full of things she loves.

For more about Dana and to be a part of her journey, check out her website and follower her on Instagram.

 

Follow online:

 

IG: @dana.vollmer

Danavollmer.com

[/et_pb_text][et_pb_toggle admin_label="Transcript" title="Read Episode Transcript" _builder_version="3.19.18" saved_tabs="all"]

Laura:

[00:00:05] Welcome to the hope sports podcast where elite athletes recount the challenges and experience that have shaped them both as competitors and as people. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. This week's guest was just 12 years old when she swam at her first Olympic trials. And as of today she's won a total of 32 medals in major international competition including seven Olympic medals. I'm so excited to have Dana Vollmer with us today sharing about the ups and downs of her incredible career. She has swam through a life threatening heart condition falling short of making the Olympic team mid career and becoming a mother to two beautiful boys. And still she swims on inspiring us with her optimism and aspirations and desire to unite a very unique set of athletes.

 

[00:00:51] And if this conversation resonates with you and you're looking to dig deeper into exploring purpose and performance then I have a really great resource for you that I'll tell you more about after we hear from Diana. I'm glad you're here. Now let's dive on in. Dana Vollmer welcome to the hope sports podcast are so excited to have you on today.

 

Dana:

[00:01:07] Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

 

Laura:

[00:01:09] Now for those listening who may not know too much about you. Can you kind of tell us how you got your start in swimming.?

 

Dana:

[00:01:15] Yeah I actually was in my first competition when I was 4. For my mom was a swim coach. I don't actually remember learning how to swim. I have just always been around the water and always had a love for being in there.

 

Laura:

[00:01:28] Oh that's awesome. I don't think I could swim at 4. Not at all. Not even strokes.

 

Dana:

[00:01:31] Yeah. So then it was just a summer league team until I was eleven and then I transition to year-round swimming. And when we moved down to Texas and actually made my first Olympic trials at twelve and then still competing today. So many many years later. OK so first Olympic trials at twelve years old. I mean did you even understand the hugeness of that.

 

Laura:

[00:01:48] OK so first Olympic trials at twelve years old. I mean did you even understand the hugeness of that? What was that like for you?

 

Dana:

[00:01:58] You know I don't think I fully comprehended what it meant to make that time standard to be at the Olympic trials. But I mean I was feisty competitive little thing and just always trying to get best times. And that was the gold time that was set in front of me. And when I was a little 12year old walking around with her board on deck getting everyone to sign it and in all of everyone.

 

Laura:

[00:02:20] That's awesome!

 

Dana:

[00:02:23] And. But yet I remember walking away so mad that I didn't make an Olympic team and I got 49th place and.

 

Laura:

[00:02:30] Oh man.

 

Dana:

[00:02:31] My dad had to remind me that 51 women just got beat by a 12year old and sick to go back home and train. And so it's come full circle now that I see these youngsters coming up and beating me at the competition.

 

Laura:

[00:02:46] Oh man. That is cool. That is cool. OK well it's also just two years after that you're 14 and you get a kind of scary health diagnosis. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

 

Dana:

[00:02:55] Yeah I was in the middle of training and my heart rate spiked to 250 and we couldn't get it to come back down. And it actually happened a couple of times. Once when I was sitting on the couch watching TV. Once when I was jumping rope. Once when I was in the pool. And so we immediately went to the cardiologist and it turned out that I had an extra electrical pathway in my heart. And so we ended up during surgery they went in through my from your artery and cauterize it wasn't open heart surgery or anything. They cauterize that electrical pathway and I didn't have that racing heartbeat anymore. But through testing, they had seen random patterns of what they call long QT syndrome. And so that that was the scariest part for us. That's known as one of the leading causes of sudden death in athletes.

 

Laura:

[00:03:42] Oh Wow.

 

Dana:

[00:03:43] And luckily now all these years later they now have a genetic test for that and it turns out that I don't have it.

 

Laura:

[00:03:50] Wow!

 

Dana:

[00:03:51] So that was a huge relief to us. We just found out actually through prenatal testing for my second child that I officially didn't have that genetic marker.

 

Laura:

[00:03:59] Wow. Because after that your mom had to carry a defibrillator to every single practice and competition you went to right? Like just in case?

 

Dana:

[00:04:07] Yeah. Just in case something happened. I refused to touch it as a 14year old. It was just too scary I think for me to process. So I really felt the strength that my mom had and taking that on and letting me still train and letting me compete. And she was right there clutching this defibrillator hoping that nothing happened and luckily nothing ever did.

 

Laura:

[00:04:28] Well how did you guys make that decision? Because I can't. I mean you're a mom now too. I can't imagine being faced with that for my kid. I mean can you kind of walk me through those perspectives like what were or was it even not a question for you? I don't. I don't know.

 

Dana:

[00:04:42] Well for me the 14year old of course was no I will always swim. But I think you know my parents had many conversations about not letting fear control my life. And we couldn't be in a bubble. And they were gonna do everything that they could to make me safe but allow me to do what I loved. And I. To my core loved swimming and training and racing and so they did everything they could. And that meant being right next to me in training holding onto a defibrillator.

 

Laura:

[00:05:15] Wow! What an amazing kind of courageous move from your parents. That says a lot about them. I think and I know you said you did in college you did like a research paper. We were talking about illness or something. And you interviewed your mom and said it was the first time you knew how scared she actually was?

 

Dana:

[00:05:29] Yeah. I was doing a medical anthropologyclass on the different perspectives of illness and I decided to write it on my mom. And me she shielded so much of her fear from me. And she didn't want me to know how scary of a decision this was and didn't want me training constantly thinking if I was putting my life at risk. And so just hearing how many times she came in in the middle of the night to see if I was still breathing. She was terrified to let me do anything scary that it might put my heart into some strange rhythm. Just how much fear she had. I just never really understood.

 

Laura:

[00:06:08] Wow wow. I think parenting is probably the hardest job on earth right.

 

Dana:

[00:06:13] Yes. Yes. It is.

 

Laura:

[00:06:15] So OK. It wasn't long after that diagnosis and the decision to keep going. That you made your first Olympic team as just a 16year old in Athens Greece. And you won a gold medal there in the 4 x 200meter free relay. I mean did you. Obviously, you're competitive and you expected to make the Olympic team at 12 so I'm guessing you fully thought this was possible?

 

Dana:

[00:06:35] Most definitely. That was the goal. That was the plan. I felt like you know while the heart episode was really scary. It didn't necessarily take me out of the sport for very long. And so I just kept training and my coaches always really good. About saying like it's the same lane it's the same block. It's you know just get up there swim your own race. Do it you know how to do. Don’t focus on other people and. At the Olympic trials, I was actually next to the American record holder at the time. And I just I can vividly remember that race more so than a lot of other races. Just making that first Olympic team being 16 I just. I remember being very overwhelmed a lot of the time? I just kind of went with the flow tried to copy what all these other amazing Olympians were doing.

 

[00:07:22] And even when we won the gold and you realize that you just broke an ancient world record. And got that first gold medal. And you can watch videos. It's like every couple seconds I copy what Natalie Coughlin did. She puts her arms up in screen and I have my arms do the same. I just was so overwhelmed. So excited. So proud of the journey. And I don't think I had. Everything had seemed like it had fallen into place kind of along that path. At that time.

 

Laura:

[00:07:52] Oh that's so cool. Did you get to walk an opening and closing ceremonies and things too?

 

Dana:

[00:07:57] I didn't. So opening it is like I mean they say what you stand on your feet for like eight hours? And the night before we start competing the next day.

 

Laura:

[00:08:05] Oh you're the first day? OK.

 

Dana:

[00:08:07] Yeah. So I have not. I actually haven't ever walked in opening ceremonies.

 

Laura:

[00:08:12] Oh no!

 

Dana:

[00:08:13] But I did get to do closing in 2012. So.

 

Laura:

[00:08:17] Oh good. OK well, we've got one in there. That's good. So what happened after Athens?

 

Dana:

[00:08:23] After Athens and you know it's part of that identity crisis. You come home you just you were a gold medalist. And then you have to go back to high school. And so I mean half. I did feel like half a high school loved me for what I did. Half a high school seemed to hate me for what I did. And you're just I don't know I felt like I was you know I had homeschooled going into that. So I only did one year of high school has actually ended up graduating a year early. And it was just a struggle of who am I as a person. Who am I as this Olympic athlete now at 16years old and how do you make mistakes. How do you figure things out when you feel a little more in the public eye. And you know I took some time off. I actually injured my back at that point when I started coming back from training I had a disk injury and. I just I felt like I was kind of floundering and so I didn't really know where I was at home. So I decided to graduate a year early and I went off to the University of Florida for my first year of college.

 

Laura:

[00:09:32] So you were like 17 when you went off to college?

 

Dana:

[00:09:34] Yeah.

 

Laura:

[00:09:35] Wow. That's all so overwhelming I would think.

 

Dana:

[00:09:38] It is another you know it's a hard step to then also go into college and you're supposed to be this amazing Olympic athlete. And trying to live up to that every day is sometimes really challenging. And the coach and I just didn't really see eye to eye. The training program was different than I would like. And so then I ended up transferring over to Cal Berkeley and I loved. I loved the school. I loved the program. The coach and I obviously I still train at Cal Berkeley today. So something's working. And it was I think going into 2008 I found myself really struggling with other people's expectations. And or my interpretation of other people's expectations that I was supposed to qualify for so many events. And you know for the US it's not just qualifying then you're expected to medal. And I just I Crum I absolutely crumbled under that. And one event I walked out and I was in tears in my goggles before I even swam the events.

 

Laura:

[00:10:39] Is this about Olympic trials?

 

Dana:

[00:10:40] Olympic trials in 2008. Yeah. And. I miss it. I miss it and every single one of my events one as close as 1100th of a second.

 

Laura:

[00:10:51] Oh that's so heartbreaking.

 

Dana:

[00:10:53] You can beat yourself up about it all day long. But now I feel like perspective has changed so much that I don't think I would be the athlete I am today without having gone through 2008.

 

Laura:

[00:11:05] I feel like I hear that a lot. Like it really stinks to go through those moments but it seems to make you stronger and more capable of things later. But like how in that moment of just kind of crumbling under that? Like how did you walk that out and how did you come back from that? You know is it the people around you? Is it you having to change the way you were thinking about stuff? Like what I guess. How did you walk out?

 

Dana:

[00:11:30] Yeah. I mean there are very important people. I went home I stayed at one of my best friends houses that in my hometown in Granbury. And she just kind of helped me with perspective. Her job her kids. And then it was honestly Teri McKeeverand my other coach Milton Nelms. And Teri knew that I couldn't just go home and sulk. That was not going to help me get through this. And so Milton Nelms actually runs a learn to swim program in Fiji.

 

Laura:

[00:12:04] Oh wow.

 

Dana:

[00:12:04] And they have one of the highest drowning rates in the world for an island nation. And so they. It kind of took me out of my own bubble. They helped me fly to Fiji and we got to teach. It's kind of like a community college and you teach them how to teach kids how to swim. So they go out into their villages and teach kids how to swim. And it was just amazing to kind of realize it's not all about Olympic level swimming. I was helping save lives with the knowledge that I already had. I didn't have to go out and prove anything else about my swimming. That I already had the skills to make other people's lives better. And it was just an absolutely incredible experience to be helping them. But then it was still that place when I thought about my own swimming. It was like an instant weight on my chest of how am I supposed to come back? How do I face the team? How do I face my coach? How do I come back to training in a way that I want to? And we actually did an open water race when I was in Fiji. It was at 18K relay from one island to another. You could see fish and coral and I mean it was beautiful. And to me, that was the moment when I realized that I still love the water. I love to swim. And that was the core of it. And what I really needed to work on was the mental side of the sport.

 

Laura:

[00:13:27] I love that you just like you said got out of your bubble. Did something. Saw that there was more to this whole swimming thing than just your races. And then kind of recaptured that love and that passion for it. That's so awesome. And so things did change. Going into London. I mean you went into the 2012 London Olympics and walked away with three gold medals and two world records. I'm guessing that was a little bit different of an experience.

 

Dana:

[00:13:51] Yes. Yes. completely. I mean there's so much work that we put in in those 4years. And to make me feel like almost a different woman walking out for the 2012 Olympic trials and we explored nutrition. It turned out that I had many food sensitivities that were really hindering my training and my recovery and then the mental side of it.

 

Laura:

[00:14:12] How interesting.

 

Dana:

[00:14:15] I actually enjoyed seeing a normal therapist. Not a sports psychologist. I always felt like they somehow were trying to just get me to race better. And it was nice to just really take a look at my entire life. That everything impacts how you train how you race and all areas need to be happy. To be the best athlete that we can be. And I got married in 2011 to my husband and.

 

Laura:

[00:14:42] He's a swimmer too right?

 

Dana:

[00:14:43] He was young he swam for Stanford. He also just missed the Olympic team in 2008. So I think that was a good bonding place for us to find strength together. And. Yeah. It just walking out there you know some of the sports psychology training though was like you have set yourself up to where if you have a terrible race you're still making an Olympic team. And that was kind of our motto in training was that it's it's not that I need to expect way more of myself than I've ever done to make an Olympic team. It's like OK if I have a cold I can still do this I can still get up and make this team. And yeah I mean even at the Olympics when I walked out. I was like OK Just swim your own race. Just try not to screw anything up and we should be good.

 

Laura:

[00:15:34] And you were. I mean did you three gold medals and you already had a gold medal so you have four gold medals now. I mean did you think about retiring at that point?

 

Dana:

[00:15:43] It's always one of those really hard things where. Honestly leading up to 2012? Yes. I assumed that I was done after 2012 I wanted to go out with a bang and go out at the pinnacle of your career. And then it's always one of those how do you retire when you're at the top of your game? Like you just had the best performance you've ever had in your life. And now you're supposed to walk away? And so that was hard. Not really hard because I was just so excited after winning three golds to just get back in it and train. And then it kind of dawns on you that OK it is another four years. And the time commitment is huge. The effort level is huge. You can't just kind of skirt by on what you've done before and expect to make an Olympic team. And I was able to make the world championships team that next summer. But I kind of been dealing with shoulder issues the back injury had never fully gone away. So at that point, I did decide quote-unquote “to retire?” because I didn't actually sign my retirement papers. Part of me just could never sign the actual papers. So Teri told me to just go with that something in me might not be done and let's just respect that.

 

[00:16:51] So I stepped away from the sport. Decided I wanted to see what life was like as not a competitive athlete. I went to school for architecture and design. We bought a house in the suburbs and decided that we wanted to start our family. And so yeah in 2015 my youngest or my oldest now Arlen was born. And it wasn't a very interesting process of being pregnant as you know. I can't say I'm one that loved being pregnant. I felt very out of control with my body and we ended up being on bed rest for eight weeks and.

 

Laura:

[00:17:31] Oh my that's a long time.

 

Dana:

[00:17:33] Yeah. Yeah. I made it through like all ten seasons of Friends. I honestly I think that that was when I decided to train again. Because I could not imagine another day of sitting in my bed.

 

Laura:

[00:17:46] Wow. So you hadn't been training for a while?

 

Dana:

[00:17:49] No.

 

Laura:

[00:17:49] You’re Pregnant. You're on bed rest. And you're like I have got to get back in the water.

 

Dana:

[00:17:53] Yeah. well I mean that's the only way that I really know how to get back in shape and how to push myself. I've never been a runner.

 

Laura:

[00:18:00] So then it was. It just kind of I'm going to get back in the water just to get back in shape after this or you want to do like compete?

 

Dana:

[00:18:06] Yeah. Well, I don't think I knew how to separate the two yet. I need to have a big goal to get myself to kind of do the daily grind of training.

 

Laura:

[00:18:15] Totally relate to that. Yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:18:16] Yeah. So basically I set that goal OK let's see if I can make the 2016 Olympic team. I mean that's right around the corner. But it was obviously a huge goal and it kept me going to get up in the mornings and to push myself. But deep down I think what really helped me through the process was yeah that was a big goal. But the ultimate goal was to be the best mom that I could be. To feel in control of my body. To get back in shape to have the lifestyle of running around with the boys that I want to have. And I think that's what made it to me that one of the healthiest places for me that I've ever been in the sport. It wasn't necessarily about the goal it was about the daily lifestyle that I wanted to have.

 

Laura:

[00:19:05] Oh that's so cool. So then what. I mean because you ended up making the Rio team and what was it like going to an Olympics this time with a toddler in tow?

 

Dana:

[00:19:15] Well I wish he honestly. I wish he was more in tow than he was allowed to be. And so that that was actually really hard. Of course, on one hand, I'm thrilled. I was absolutely stoked. I made an Olympic team. I got to compete again. But then it's also you know there hadn't been many moms in the sport of swimming yet. So training camp technically he wasn't allowed to be at training camp. And I had to sit down with the coaches and with USA Swimming staff and talk about like I can't do that. I can't just go away for a month and leave my child. And so at first, it was agreed that he should come for two weekends. Which was even obviously daunting to me at the time too. I mean I literally was never by myself.

 

Laura:

[00:19:58] Right. And it's like an appendage right? Like you’re missing an arm or something walking in there without them. Yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:20:04] A huge piece of my heart was gone. And to be in a hotel room by myself and then go to training with girls that I hadn't trained with before. With coaches, I hadn't worked with before. My. Like the person that does my weights isn't allowed to be there. The massage person like they have an Olympic staff that kind of starts to take care of everything. But it was an incredibly lonely place to be. And it was a really hard trying to balance that. This side of me that just missed my family so much. And this daily routine that I had developed that I had loved. And to kind of have to create an absolutely new one for 2016 Olympic Games. I mean the Olympics is the biggest meet that you get to go to. And I had to completely change what I had done to get there. And a.

 

Laura:

[00:20:58] And like a limited amount of time too. Right?

 

Dana:

[00:21:00] Yeah. Yeah. We only have four weeks between the Olympic trials and the Olympics. And honestly, before being a mom I would have said like oh it's only four weeks of your life. Like you can go you can be with the team and just fully commit. And then you get to go home and be with your family. Four weeks is just a really long time to be away from your kids. And so it is a goal of mine going in 2020 to better work with USA Swimming. I feel like they will. I think like you said it was just such a short time span to try to figure out how we make this work. About how I can see more of the kids and have more of my support system there for me going into 2020.

 

Laura:

[00:21:41] That's great. So I mean you won a gold silver and a bronze in Rio right?

 

Dana:

[00:21:47] Yeah. I mean I just wanted to get the trifecta.

 

Laura:

[00:21:49] Yeah. There you go. Yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:21:50] I mean one of everything.

 

Laura:

[00:21:52] I mean this is incredible so you had four weeks. You revamped your entire routine. You're flying solo. It was hard. And you were still so successful. I mean did you just keep going after that? Or did you. Because I know now you have your son Ryker who was born in 2017 right? Was the plan to keep going after this again? Or you know. How is this? What are logistics like here?

 

Dana:

[00:22:14] Yeah. I mean it's again I feel like it's a cycle every four years. Again I was successful in 2016 and I had created more of a daily life that I loved. Like going in after Arlen was born and it just felt so much healthier of a routine of a lifestyle of a focus. It wasn't just pushed my body till it breaks because that's what you have to do. I learned a lot more about recovery and it just felt like a lifestyle that I could sustain. So I figured why not. Why not try and so I trained. From after 2016, I did train through being pregnant with Ryker. I actually swam at a swim meet when I was 28 pregnant.

 

Laura:

[00:22:56] Oh my Goodness! Wow.

 

Dana:

[00:22:58] That was obviously much more for just the joy and fun of racing than the actual time.

 

Laura:

[00:23:05] Right.

 

Dana:

[00:23:06] But I enjoyed it. We got to do a Gender reveal with what color suit I wore.

 

Laura:

[00:23:10] Oh that's so fun.

 

Dana:

[00:23:11] So it was yeah it was really fun. And then I actually ended up having the same contractions that started at 30 weeks that they did with my first child with Arlen. But this time they didn't want me on bed rest. They just wanted me to have limited activity but not actually be in my bed like I was before. And so it's a little scary that time just being moving around a lot more and having all the contractions. Just trying to listen to my doctors and Ryker came at 37 weeks. So Arlen was at 41. And so he was just as tall as Arlen but hadn't really gotten to put on all that baby fat yet so it just seems so little at first. But then honestly it's different with two. And I can't imagine with you having four and trying to train.

 

Laura:

[00:24:03] I know. Crazy. For crazy people.

 

Dana:

[00:24:07] But you know I think I expected it to be the same. I think I put more almost more expectations on myself that here.

 

Laura:

[00:24:14] Coz you've done it once.

 

Dana:

[00:24:15] Yeah I had done it before. It's supposed to be the same. And now I know and so it's supposed to be easier. That is so not true.

 

Laura:

[00:24:22] Yeah. My first child slept through the night. And people just laughed at me and they're like Oh wait till you have a second line. Yeah. She didn’t sleep through the night at all. So yeah.

 

Dana:

[00:24:31] Yeah. And so of course it was like my older ones stopped napping as soon as the second one was born. And well you know just being up again and nursing. And then not getting to nap when he naps because the older one was awake. And trying to figure out how to get groceries in my house with two kids. And it's. There's been a whole new set of challenges. And honestly, I feel like just this past fall I've really kind of gotten more of a routine and figured out more of what I how I'm gonna make this work.

 

Laura:

[00:25:03] That's great. That's great. Now I know on your website you said you found a new love for something. I think we've heard a little bit about that and you said for years you let it define your life through your success or failure in the pool. But now it's your family that matters most. I know you went to Fiji rekindle that and now you have your family. Like I guess how do you ever still get kind of bogged down or caught back up in that? I feel like we go through these seasons right? You kind of get it figured out and you think you're in a good place then you get kind of sucked back into that. Like you know that mindset where your result defined you. Like how do you check that how do you keep that at bay?

 

Dana:

[00:25:37] Yeah. I feel like it's it's not just something that you master. And it doesn't happen again like you said. Honestly, it's something that I feel come back before every competition and I have to work on that. It's like where do people expect me to be at this point. How do I prove the training that I've done that it's working? And how do I show that I can do this as a mom? And it's now I have to step back and you know this is about my journey. Like this is about just racing and figuring things out and figuring out what I love about still being in the sport. And it is a conscious reminder of having to let go of what I think other people are expecting of me. But I mean it's work. That's something that you have to be kind to train yourself to catch yourself in those mind brains. And to bring yourself back from that. But yeah it's not like I've just figured it out. It's something that I still work on and honestly you know it was Ryker was probably six months old. And I went to the Austin Grand Prix in January. And I had been kind of training a much smaller amount but I still felt fast. And it's one of those in your mind you always think like oh I got this and.

 

Laura:

[00:26:51] I love your self-confidence. It's awesome. I love it.

 

Dana:

[00:26:54] I went to a competition and it was one of those kinds of like rude awakenings of just you know hey I do love the sport. I haven't been able to get as much training. And it's one thing to just think you can stand up and perform with the best in the country. But that is something that takes a lot of dedication. A lot of hours. A lot of training. And I did let that get to me. And I didn't know what to kids why I was fighting so hard to make an Olympic team. You know I still struggling with kind of how 2016 went for me mentally. Like was I ready to go through that again being away from my family being away from my own support system? And then so I did end up taking some time away. And I was just working on strength training trying to figure out the training pieces that I really enjoyed. And that was when I saw it’s actually on Instagram that Jeanette Ottesen a swimmer from Denmark. A butterflier that's been in almost every international competition final with me in the Butterfly was having a baby girl and wanted to train for 2020. And it just felt like I just instantly had this bond with her and I mean we were friendly.

 

[00:28:10] I can't say we were very close friends but I mean we talked to competitions. And I instantly wrote her on Instagram as like I need to come to Denmark but can I please bring my boys? Can I come train with you? Can we try to figure out how moms train in this sport together? And it was just so inspiring for me to have another person that got it. And to get on that pool deck and talk to each other. How'd you sleep last night? Were your kids up all night? Were you stressed about this or that? And Do you have the power to change our training ourselves? And create what we wanted and each workout. And to talk about the hardships of getting stability back in your hits and getting your abs back. All these things that just your body changes so much and to have another person that was right there with me just meant the world to me. And that was when I started the movement to the power of mom. And I just really started looking at other athletes and other athletes stories. And how they manage dealing with kids and training. And being so inspired by all these other women that were also doing it and feeling like I wasn't so alone. Like we need we need to have a stronger voice and be heard by each other even to help motivate each other when it's hard.

 

Laura:

[00:29:28] And I love it. I mean I've followed you for a long time. But when I saw you start that power of mom thing it just it hit me. Because I feel very isolated like I totally understand what you're talking about because divers there tend to be younger. When I retired at 30 I was considered old and I didn't have kids or anything at that point. Now I'm here 10years older and four kids you know it's definitely not something anybody else is doing. And so to see that other people are doing that it makes you feel like you're not a crazy person. Like it's OK to have dreams. It's OK to be a mom and do these things and in fact, you can be even better. You know it's just so nice I'm so thankful that you created something and it is gonna make a big difference for so many of us.

 

Dana:

[00:30:04] Yeah I mean there's nothing worse than feeling lonely an isolated. And we find strength in each other. I find strength in your story. I find strength in Serena Williams. And Allyson Felix just having her little one. And it'll be amazing to have all of us chasing this dream together.

 

Laura:

[00:30:23] Yes I love it. You had your hashtag was Mama on a mission in 2016 and now it's to the power of mom. I love it. So what's next on your road to Tokyo 2020? I mean obviously, there's going to be competitions in between that. And are there any plans following Tokyo? More kids more swimming other adventures. Like what's on the plate for you?

 

Dana:

[00:30:43] So I just got back from a competition in Knoxville Tennessee earlier in January. And it's just kind of one of those there's the tier Pro Series circuit there's kind of a meet every month almost. And it's just kind of seeing where I'm at in training. Seeing what falls apart. What is feeling really strong? Continue to focus on that one reason why I think I'm still in the sport today is just that I know that there is a faster butterfly. It's not just that I need to train harder or more hours. It's like the physics of how we swim butterfly. I think we're still figuring out how to do it. And I love the learning process and the challenging to think outside the box. And technique and training. And I will be going to Tasmania for a training trip again. I've actually gone a couple of times so that's where the coach Milton Nelms and his amazing wife Shane Gould. She's a multi Olympian for Australia for swimming. And so that's where they live. And so we end up doing an Airbnb down there and we train in the ocean all the time. There is not a pool where you train in the way.

 

Laura:

[00:31:51] Is it freezing?

 

Dana:

[00:31:53] It is. I do have a wetsuit that I wear. I do get an occasionally just in my swimsuit just because the wetsuit does change your buoyancy and how you feel. So I try to challenge myself from time to time to get in. But as a swimmer, I do have a deep hatred of cold water.

 

Laura:

[00:32:12] I hear that from a lot of stories.

 

Dana:

[00:32:14] Yeah. Yeah the most of us. So I have the wetsuit on a lot. But we're really excited that Jeanette Ottesen and her husband and her little girl Billy nay are also going to come.

 

Laura:

[00:32:25] Oh so is your whole family going too?

 

Dana:

[00:32:27] My whole family is coming. My husband two boys and a friend of ours that's going to help us with the boys. And yeah. And then her and Jeanette and her husband and little girl and then she has two people that are coming with her as well.

 

Laura:

[00:32:41] That's so cool. That'll be wonderful.

 

Dana:

[00:32:43] Yeah. Yeah. So really excited about that. That's always a really good chunk of training. A lot of times I do it February before an Olympic year is a kind of always when I've done it before. And just feeling like my training needed a boost right now and kind of getting back into the sport. And I've loved this trip and it's always kind of brought the best out of me and my family. My husband has some of his favorite memories are on these trips. And so getting setup for that. And then August will actually be my next major goal that's Nationals it'll be at Stanford just an hour away. So that'll be nice won't have to travel really for that. And then we start entering into 2020. I mean there'll be winter nationals in December and then the same tier Pro Series circuit in 2020. And so honestly my main focus is just kind of at each meet to hopefully each chipping away at little things. Even if that doesn't necessarily show up in my time it better turns. It's it's starting to feel that pieces of the race I want to have at Olympic trials in 2020. Start to have those pieces show up now.

 

Laura:

[00:33:46] That's great. I love the plan. Okay, so where can we follow you online to continue to just be inspired and encouraged by you? And also so we can cheer you on toward Tokyo?

 

Dana:

[00:33:55] You can follow me on Instagram is the main one @Dana.Vollmer and @DanaVollmer.com.

 

Laura:

[00:34:06] Awesome thank you so much Dana for coming on. I love your story. Obviously, I feel very connected because of the mom component. We're still training but you're absolutely awesome and we thank you for your time.

 

Dana:

[00:34:17] Yes definitely. Hopefully, we will be together on that 2020 team.

 

Laura:

[00:34:24] Such great wisdom from Dana today. I love how when the pressure became all too much. It was that trip to Fiji that really helped her reset. A few weeks ago we hadDr. Ben Holtzberg on our show and he told us the best way to shift to a purpose based mindset is to find ways to serve others outside of ourselves. And Dana has clearly discovered that. As she expresses is so important to continually keep our perspectives in check. When we feel overwhelmed by the pressures of other people's expectations. We have to remember who we are and why we love to do what we do and let everything else just fade away. Along those lines, I wanted to let you guys know about something coming up over the next few weeks that I have been working like crazy on and I'm super excited to tell you about. Have you ever been anxious going into a competition or felt like you won the warm-up but not the meet or maybe you just don't understand why you don't perform when it counts but you do in practice? If that sounds like you then listen up. I've designed an online course that is just for you. I'm going to teach you the most crucial mental skills that I've acquired over my 20 plus years as an elite athlete. I'm going to walk you step by step through the process that will help you optimize your performance and set you up for success. If you're ready for change and you want the skills to take your performance to the next level then I want you to head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance and sign up so you'll be the first to know when this course is available. And when you sign up I'm going to send you my list of the five things that you can do today to become a more confident competitor. So head on over to LauraWilkinson.com/performance. Next week we have legendary speed skater Dan Jansen on the show with us. Dan clinched Olympic gold in the final race of his career and dedicated that victory to his sister who died just hours before his event in a previous Olympic Games. His story is one of incredible dedication and determination and I'm so excited to share it with you next week. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening so you don't miss a single episode and remember to leave us a review because that helps us to keep bringing on these awesome guests. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and access to the complete archives please visit HopeSports.org

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Hope Sports
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