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A farm in rural Canada doesn’t exactly seem like the perfect breeding ground for a world class water skier (or two!). But a lot of digging, water, and a cow pasture would become a man-made lake large enough for a speed boat, skis, and the start of a legendary career for Ryan Dodd. At age 10, he began skiing recreationally with his father and grandfather in the water reserve that they kept for their cattle and it quickly became clear that he had the talent to excel. Growing up in a family with a very successful horse-trainer for a mother and businessman for a father, Dodd understood the value of a strong work ethic and thrived on the pressure to also make something of his career.
Dodd was a rising star in his sport when a night of celebrating took a sharp turn for the worst. It was his “first and absolutely last bar fight,” and he woke up not recalling exactly what had happened. Thinking he was just a bit beaten up, Ryan got on a plane and flew home. Upon landing, however, he realized that his injuries were far worse than he had originally believed. Upon rushing him to the ER, doctors discovered that he had a skull fracture and bleeding in three places in his brain -- an injury so severe that he was lucky to be alive after not seeking immediate medical attention. He stayed at the hospital until the bleeding stopped and narrowing avoided surgery, but the road to recovery would be long. Dodd was required to lay flat in the dark for three months to allow his brain to fully heal. He wasn’t allowed to go outside, have caffeine, read, look at screens, or do anything that got his heart rate up. And most definitely not water ski.
Ryan shares, “it was definitely the most life-changing experience that I would never have asked for.” The months in the dark forced him to make drastic changes not only in his physical health, but also in his mindset towards himself. He had to overhaul his nutrition and sleep patterns in order to recover. No more caffeine, sugar, alcohol, staying out late, or sleeping in. He became more intentional with his time, giving space for reading, self-improvement, meditation, and reflection. When he was ready to take steps towards training again, he got in contact with a sports psychologist and a performance coach to help him stay holistically healthy. Finally, eight months after his injury, Dodd strapped on his skis for his first competition and scored a personal best. That milestone was followed shortly after by a first place victory at the the US Masters and a world title.
During his recovery, Ryan read a book that encouraged him to “turn obstacles into opportunities.” He used to view defeat or challenges as negative experiences, rather than moments to evaluate and grow. This shift in his mindset enabled him to take his recovery day by day, and has marked his career ever since. He learned that focusing on doing his best would always take him further than dwelling on the next big win. Performance goals remain important, but he has found that small, attainable goals in all areas of life are actually more rewarding and motivating. Although he’s back to skiing professionally, he shares that he is dreaming bigger than just gold medals and championships - he wants to help evolve the sport, encourage others, and mentor younger athletes. He currently trains with his dad, who has was titles in the Over 55 water skiing circuit himself, and looks forward to bettering himself at each competition in the coming year.
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Laura:
[00:00:54] Ryan Dodd welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast. We're so excited to have you on. Welcome!
Ryan:
[00:01:00] Thank you. Glad to be here.
Laura:
[00:01:02] Let's just get right to it. Now, you started skiing fairly young and not in a very typical location. Can you tell us about how you got started?
Ryan:
[00:01:11] Yeah a little bit of how I started. I started from Canada on a cattle farm actually. My Dad and Grandpa and family used to ski recreationally. And when I was 10 years old my dad actually built a dam with a tractor in a cow pasture as a sort of reserve or backup for cattle water. And we started skiing so I skied you know all summer on the Partyville and then played backyard Olympic. Been busy.
Laura:
[00:01:40] That's awesome. Now you have a friend Jared that you started training with when you were pretty young and you said he was kind of inspiration from the beginning. I have to tell you I was reading this article and I love this quote you said about him. The thing about Jared is he works harder than anybody I've ever seen in this sport. But he does it with this carefree joy. Whether he's preparing for your event or rehabbing an injury that might in most careers. He does it with the energy and enthusiasm of a guy on holiday. Now what kind of impact is training with a guy like that had on you?
Ryan:
[00:02:12] I was in the same room as a kid you know every single thing you do just from the way I carried themselves to the. You know the way you trained and competed and whose family life was a definite inspiration and you know they got me heavily.
[00:02:28] But that. That kind of point that one that I pointed out is the hardest. Its sort of it seems for me to be the hardest thing. But it's also when you kind of get in that state where you can know everything flows and you can be relaxed but you're also working hard on anybody and performing at a high level in a dangerous sport like. Then you can carry on a life that's you know you can carry on great family life because you know and business. And you can just be fun to be around and that's kind of what was always blowing me away the most about him. And honestly, anyone that stands out to me you know if you're working hard but you're in a bad mood and resenting it and you're grumpy. Whatever. I mean what's the point of that?
Laura:
[00:03:12] Exactly. Exactly. Now I have to ask you about your dad because I'm a mom and I've been a fairly successful athlete too and now I have a daughter who's fallen in love with my sport and that makes me nervous. Now your dad Bruce was a world champion water skier. And how did that affect you growing up? I mean was did it inspire you or was it like a weight to prove something? Like, Tell me about that?
Ryan:
[00:03:34] Well kind of the odd thing is he was never a professional skier. He was always a farmer. He skied for fun in the summer. He competed but actually like he's a senior World Champion. So like in the in the 55 and up and he just did that like I think five for the first time. So It was not. It wasn't really that way like I'd ever had. How you kind of go on him saying he wasn't actually a professional skier. He was to set a record. Somebody in the senior ranks.
[00:04:06] He's actually excelled the last 10 years. So now he is. The pressure was more with how successful you know my family both my parents were. My mom was actually you know a horse trainer and she competed against the guys and she rode. You know she's one of the tops in the country. And my dad you know it was his business success. You know grew on a family farm from one cow to 9000. He's a pretty successful guy. So yeah I had pressure but you know for me the pressure was never and it still isn't like something that scares me or holds me back. That's why I thrive on. Like if I don't have pressure then I don't do as well. The more. Seriously the more the better. So.
Laura:
[00:04:48] I love it. So did you guys have to ask then did you guys train together.
Ryan:
[00:04:53] We actually train together right now. He's got his next senior world championships in three weeks in Santiago Chile and I'm just. My season is kind of winding down but I'm still training. I'm testing some stuff. I'm testing you know some stuff on my boat but he has to get ready for next year and he's preparing for that. So you know all a hop in the boat and watch him know a couple of times a week and help him out and vice versa. So springy.
Laura:
[00:05:17] Oh I love it. It's like family goes right there. That's awesome. I have to ask you. You had a life-threatening head injury and it sidelined you from competition for like eight months. Can you tenet take me through that?
Ryan:
[00:05:34] Yeah. It’s a. Actually without a sport, It was not one of my most proud moments but I wanted to give that to our partner to set the bar and I got beat up and the first time I've been in a fight and hopefully last with them. That's not my forte. So I was you know I kind of woke up not knowing what happened and beat up pretty bad and actually flew home. I didn't know how serious it was. And then the next day I started freaking out like my head like gonna explode and other members basically the emergency room and my skull was fractured and my brain was bleeding in different spots like a subdural hematoma. And then like Oh my God you're lucky to be alive. I was right beside this major artery blood. I was. Insane! They didn't do surgery. They just kind of let it sit for a few hours and then the bleeding stopped. And you know I was basically just laying in bed for three months. I wasn't allowed to go outside in the heat. I was about to get my heart rate up with my caffeine. I wasn’t allowed to read Green. Watch. I was basically to sit there in the dark for a long time and you know the hope of being able to compete again and all that was kind of the last of my mind. But as I got going and got feeling better and so to see things a little different. And about 5-6 months I started working out a little and pushing it to bed you know. Seven months I got back on the water and was stronger and lighter than I'd ever been. And I definitely work with some you know some experts in sports psychology. And I got a performance coach kind of helped me you know that my career. And then next thing you know eight months after the injury I had the first competition I had a personal best. And next when I won the biggest game of the year the U.S. Masters. And since then it's been a steady ride upward all the way to last year world record and two world titles.
[00:07:25] It's been definitely a life-changing experience they don't want to like ask for but. I read this book I read this one book it was I forget the name but it was kind of like some of it was just basically turning your obstacles and opportunities and I never really thought of things that way. I just thought they were like bad when some bad happened or something went wrong. But since that moment even big or small I've said it immediately. This is the moment I'm learning something and this is for the best and it's gonna help me and that's nice. So.
Laura:
[00:07:57] So in those months that you were kind of stuck in the dark like you said. I mean what got you through that? Did you have that mindset then? Or like how did you? I mean I just can't even imagine as an athlete and somebody so active being scourged. Yeah. Like how did you and with the brain keep going?
Ryan:
[00:08:07] No. So weird. It’s terrible.
[00:08:11] I mean moving now there's more research and more guidance but I'll just kind of the doctor's like go home and rest and read stuff online. It was basically just the way it was. It was so counterintuitive for me because with the brain. Whatever it was with rest your body you exercise it. It gets stronger. You break it down and get started with a brain injury. You push it. It gets weaker and it doesn't. You actually have to just do nothing for it to get stronger. It's not like strong healthy brain you stress and they get stronger with better spirit, not injury. You basically just have to sit there.
Laura:
[00:08:48] Well like what did you? I mean what I think about it and who's? I mean cause there's a lot of time to just sit there like I can't even fathom where my brain though.
Ryan:
[00:08:56] It was so weird but after a while I just it's actually just kind of thought OK. Because I've never done it in my life. I've always been so busy and worked so hard. And I started to kind of just look outside and pay attention to things. And be more present and watch the clouds and listen to the sound. I started meditating and I got a coach to kind of teach me some breathing exercises and guided meditations. And I started doing that every morning and create a little kind. I change my diet and I stopped you know sugar or I stop caffeine and alcohol and I just definitely cleaned clean everything out and actually started to feel better than normal. Even though I wasn't doing stuff. [00:09:40] So it was pretty neat. It was crazy.
Laura:
[00:09:43] That's so wild. It is amazing those things happen to you. You don't ask or you don't want but it can change you in a good way. Right?
Ryan:
[00:09:49] I wouldn't have gone without you know a slap in the head basically.
Laura:
[00:09:53] Yeah. I get that.
Ryan:
[00:09:55] And now it's like how do we go to that place of like you know disparity or need without having to have something traumatizing happen. How do we how do we dig that deep in ourselves to be a better person without it? That's that's the challenge because it's. We can change. Like I used to sleeping and so tired till noon and you know my whole body clock has changed and I get up with the sun and I go to bed with the sun and I feel the dust before. Yeah. Everything is so weird but it's totally changed.
Laura:
[00:10:27] That's cool. That's very cool to see what affected you that way. Now you've been telling yourself since you were 10 years old that if you put in the work and stay on the path you would be a world champion. I mean you had mastered titles, Pan Am Games titles, other pro titles but when you got second at Worlds in 2013 you said you had a brief moment of doubt. You just wondered if you'd been living a lie. If you were chasing something is never gonna happen. Tell me about it?
Ryan:
[00:10:51] Yeah. That’s pretty terrible.
[00:10:55] Yeah. That was like a nasty moment because I felt like I could win when I was 18. You know I was like top 10 in the world and then now I'm like pros 30, 29 years old and I'm like sitting there so ready. I'd won all the events leading up and I even went down to the site. I jumped and I went way further than unnecessary when I did that. Top seed going into files and then the guy before me didn't even go like you know the jump and not like that far. Like you know 9 out of 10 jumps at that point would have done it. I basically just completely blanked out and screwed every jump up. And it was like I basically like I'd never heard of my life. This was just kind of blanked out when I turn. And next thing you know I had no sense of what was even going on and then it was over and it was like literally over and it's over for two years. So I really start to wonder. I'm like I could have been more prepared. There's not. But what. It's you know as you know as an athlete everything's mental everything's in your brain you know your body everything else is prepared. And I even thought I was mentally prepared but kind of the biggest moment.
[00:12:08] It was kind of the next year. I don't remember exactly what happened but my biggest change was instead of like competing against you know my biggest competitor which is Freddy Krueger at the time and trying to win. It just became caring more about the things that I need to do to be my best. And if you can actually whether you're tricking yourself or you actually believing it. You know you can want to have a great performance more than a win. You know if you can truly want that best job for that bus run or whatever sports, eating or whatever you've got a business that you can want that more than the result. You can actually create got morning program herself to work that way. That's the moment that it becomes like I was saying with Jerry with ease. And it doesn't need this heroic like out of body experience to make it happen because of you just kind of do anything. And you're that good at that point. So something changed I kinda let go you know taught when. And then didn’t make sense but when you let go trying to win you start winning every time. So I.
Laura:
[00:13:18] Wisdom right there.
Ryan:
[00:13:19] It takes me so long to like you know to put when I do it's definitely built in. So.
Laura:
[00:13:27] That's very cool. Now when you finally did win that World title two years later how did that make you feel? Was it everything you hoped for or not?
Ryan:
[00:13:39] Yes. In a way? And then also not in a way because the one you know. I'm saying I'm not there to just win but like I wanted to be my best which I was. But I also wanted to compete against the best. Part of me wanted to like and Freddie was injured that year in 2015 and he's still the number one competitor. I mean he didn't make it. So it's kind of like Oh man really? Like my brain. I was like you know the other best guy would have a gorilla performance and I come out and I muster up the courage and do it. Right?
Laura:
[00:14:14] Right. The best of the best. Right?
Ryan:
[00:14:14] This is a game in your head. But at the end of the day, I went out. I was prepared. I did my job. And I totally killed it and I won my first jump with 3 attempts. And it was amazing. But part of me was like Oh no I wish it was this. But after a few months, I'm like I just won the World Championships. But yeah I was insane. You know when it finally hit me it was like you know I think that some things really started to change and I start to believe in myself. And I was like wow it's not you know I haven't been lying to myself forever. I can actually do this. Because with anything that we do before we've done it we're telling ourselves it's possible with no proof of it being possible. So inhale I can read every line of the song. It's like oh well I guess I can keep imagining things and making them happen.
Laura:
[00:15:06] Well I think you. I mean it's it's so interesting to me because you had won so many things. And you were already so many athletes dream of being you know? You'd won so many titles and second at worlds and that's still amazing before you won the world.
Ryan:
[00:15:20] But in my brain said I'm gonna be okay. I'm going to be a world champion. I’m gonna hold records. So it's all you know for me it was all nice and fun but that's what I was here to do. So.
Laura:
[00:15:36] Well so I guess it's kind of a fine line right? Like you need to have those goals. You need to push yourself like no this is my goal I'm going to keep going. But at the same time, it's so easy for us as athletes to get sucked into that mindset of like our importance and our identity is all wrapped up in the results of our performance. Like how do you separate those? Because it's important to have those goals but you can't get just totally sucked into those all consuming goals right?
Ryan:
[00:16:00] Yeah I mean we need. So like we need performance we don't need them. But like I like to have performance goals such as a score or a win or a result. But like the best way to stay sane and live a good life and feel successful on a daily basis is to from my experience is to have goals that are within our actual control. Goals such as dietary goals, lifestyle goals, the amount of sleep you know. Spend time with your family and friends you know. The hours you put into your training you know. Your ability to not be emotionally or I guess like energetically set back when things don't go your way right? If you can keep. If my goal can be to stay as motivated when things aren't going my way is when they are. If you have goals like that? Then at the end of the day, the results are going to come pouring in. The challenge is when they start pouring in for me to not just get excited about them and forget what got me there. And it's like that's still my battle like last year is the best year of my life on the water and you know and I'd say everything. And this year I just go. I'm like Oh let's keep doing that let's keep winning. That was awesome! And then I forget how to turn I'm like oh my god I'm like all the things that made me have a great year. I'm focused on the results again. It's like really?
[00:17:26] But that's. It's so hard as you know because that's like what everybody talks about. Everybody you know that's a people post on Facebook. That's what they talk about. The first thing they say oh that the world champion. It's like oh you're not a person like hello I'm just a human. Deep down it's like we want the results. But like I say we feel better when we just feel like a normal person and where we live a normal life. So that's the that's the challenge.
Laura:
Right. It’s the balance right?
Ryan:
Yeah.
Laura:
[00:17:56] OK. So now you just mentioned it. You've got a world record. Now you have 2 world titles because you won last year as well. And you got four Masters titles. What? 45 pro wins?! And you're still going. Where do you see your career going from here? And how do how do you keep motivated?
Ryan:
[00:18:13] Honestly like that's that's the next step for me. That's what I'm sitting here right now. There's actually one more event left this year in 2 and a half weeks in the last month. I've been kind of wondering do I do it? Do I rest? The last two years I've taken the whole kind of winter off. But I'm like You know I'm like sometimes for me you can't sit here and you know when you ask me that question I can't just come up with the answer. Sometimes they just come like my motivation has just come to me in the past. You know an opportunity has been presented. That's kind of helped create it. Right now I'm sitting here and my wife and I are chatting. I was talking to my dad last night and I'm like I'm trying to figure out what is next? Because I don't. I mean you know I'm afraid and I don't want to be the guy that's sucked into like you said these goals and results. You know on that 45 pros and just go for 100. You know last year actually I set a goal was to win all the events right? Well, I lost the first event. I set this year goal to win all these events like haven't. I won the first event so I'm like you know maybe goals like that aren't what I need, you know. Is that a sign? Do I set it next year and then be mad all year if I don't do it? No. Like so I need to move. I need to figure it out. And you know maybe it's maybe it's something different. I don't know.
Laura:
[00:19:42] You know what I love about this? Is you are so accomplished and you've done all these things beget you're still figuring it out. Like that makes me feel more sane because I feel like I'm in the same boat. So thank you for making me feel like a human.
Ryan:
[00:19:54] Oh yeah. You’re welcome.
Laura:
[00:19:56] Now, of all these things. Like what do you want to be remembered for? What do you want people to take away and like remember about you?
Ryan:
[00:20:08] I mean I want to be remembered for innovating in the sport. Like as you know with my you know what I do as an athlete but also you know for the sport. And that's the step that I haven't. You know that for the sport haven't taken yet but I've kind of you know kind of started. Which would mean evolving the kind of the rules and you know the ramp and the boat and kind of working on that? And then you know as a person part of the reason that I coach and do some other things is because I want to inspire people to be you know to be their best and find that they love to do and commit to it. And so I guess whenever I chat with someone I want them to feel like you know they know that I care about them and I want to help them figure it out.
Laura:
[00:20:59] I love it. I love your hashtag Aspire to Inspire. Like I love your whole mantra. It just it resonates with me. It's very cool.
Ryan:
[00:21:06] Thank you. Thank you.
Laura:
[00:21:08] On your website you say that your mission is to kinda uncover your potential as an athlete into inspiring give back to people along the way. And working with Homes of Hope in Mexico to build and donate homes that's one of the ways you kind of stay true to that mission. How did you get involved in that? And like what does that mean to you? Why do you keep doing it?
Ryan:
[00:21:27] Yeah. I have a. It’s actually my performance coach so sort of my mental coach. He who I started working with when I had my head injury who's now been a big part in helping me recover and come back and have a good life. He for a few years was like Ryan you got to give back. You've got to you know he's kind of helping me figure out all the pieces of the puzzle. And he's like you should give back. You should find a way to donate to something. And he's like you should you know maybe give 10% of your winnings to something. And I'm like I don't want to give my money away like it seems meaningless just to donate money to something. Like he's like oh here's this link you can set. I'm like No! Like I just kind of got mad like I don't wanna do that. I want something I have meaning I want to kind of see it and feel it and know that it's real. And I just kind of had this weird like thing about like just donation. It's like I thought it was something people just do to feel better about themselves more than like for other people.
[00:22:23] So I was very hesitant. Many introduced me to a friend of his who's also a friend of my wife's. And then like a family friend of hers just like a bed talk. He's also a skier and he works with homes of hope in Mexico. He'd done like I think 7 years in a row of these builds that we had. We got a call. And I kind of just told them Hey I want it. I want to connect my performance to giving back to something. You know I want. When I do. I want to be motivated to do well not just for me to stand there and hold the medal but for me to have more to go back and give to somebody. Because it's nice you win an event. You go home. We got more money for your family. It feels cool. But it's like a family is everything OK. It's like it'd be really nice to like you know if I want and like you know whether it's 100 bucks or a thousand bucks or whatever it is to like give to somebody who's like having trouble getting food. There's no roof over their head. So we, he kind of told me what he did. I told him what to do? And somebody on the call he's like Hey why don't we work this out? Boom! I said I'll give 10 percent of what I win this year. And I'll casually you know kind of under the radar offer it to people to match any portion of it. Because I didn't want it to be. I wanted it to be this fine line of not where it's marketing right? That Ryan is a good person because he's doing this but like. So I just did one Facebook post say hey I'm doing this Homes of Hope Mexico can build a house. So you know I'm going to donate this. You know hit me up if you want to match a portion of it. Super casual. And then I think at the end of the year we had 10 or 15 people and donate some money and I think we're about twenty thousand bucks. And I was like Oh my God this is insane. The house is you know a lot less than that.
[00:24:10] And it was overwhelming without really any effort. So I was like. Then we went down and built the house and it was way above and beyond my expectations. And I dropped on my weird like stigma like you know money being hidden in some charities and all this weird stuff I had in my head for no reason. And I was like this is unbelievable! The coolest thing I've ever done. And it blew my mind and then the next year which was last year we built two homes and this year where we're going to. I don't know if I'm gonna make it this year but I'm supporting it because my wife she's pregnant so I might just stay home with her. So yeah. It's going pretty cool.
Laura:
[00:24:52] That's fantastic. I love it. I love it. When you get your hands like in it too and you see it. Kind of like you said is there some weird thing like you actually see it and you see the results of it. Yeah. Very cool.
Ryan:
[00:25:04] It was a very special opportunity. And I recommend it to anyone and I think it's the best way to connect with a family and even yourself. And you know just kind of come down to reality and pretty real.
Laura:
[00:25:19] Well, I love that how you started it just by kind of a simple donation hey if you want to join me. And it was kind of a ripple effect on all these people got involved in it. It's made such a big impact. I mean that's just. That's a beautiful thing. That's life right?
Ryan:
[00:25:31] And then another group actually tied on one of the girls that participated in the US with my build. She went and kind of did the same thing. So of donating got other people in and then kind of breath. So we'll move on there's a whole secondly side going on and it's pretty neat. So it definitely like it's something it's a good way for things to kind of go viral.
Laura:
[00:25:54] Yes. Definitely.
Ryan:
[00:25:55] Like let's give it. Everybody and doing something good. So yeah.
Laura:
[00:25:59] Well and you kind of mentioned you guys have some exciting news and I love how you announced it on Instagram where you're holding a pineapple. When is baby Dodd due?
Ryan:
[00:26:10] March next year.
Laura:
[00:26:11] Congratulations! It is so awesome. So awesome.
Ryan:
[00:26:14] Thank you. Thank you.
Laura:
[00:26:15] Now because you're fantastic and we're so inspired and encouraged by you. Where can we follow you online to kind of keep up with all your adventures and everything that you're doing?
Ryan:
[00:26:26] Once I get better than of my website it'll be on InspiredByRyan.com it's brand new. About my Instagram @rdodd260. That's kind of I'd say where I post the most often and then Facebook. So yeah.
Laura:
[00:26:43] All right. Fantastic! Well thank you so much for taking the time to just share your inspiring story with us and we wish you the very best of luck.
Ryan:
[00:26:50] Thank you very much.
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“You always have to believe that you can achieve the unthinkable.”
She was only nineteen years old when she won gold in Athens. Weeks before the Olympics she hadn’t even made the team.
For most of us, getting to the Olympics is a
Having Olympian parents was a real asset to her as she became a more serious athlete. They instilled in her a strong work ethic, a positive attitude towards competition, and, most importantly, a solid support system for when things didn’t go her way. This was particularly important in 2004 when Mariel was devastated to have not qualified to fence at the Olympics in Athens. All she wanted to do was sit on the couch and cry, but her parents encouraged her to continue to train as if she were going. This advice would be key for her. Just weeks before the Olympics she got a call that the delegate from Nigeria would not be going and a spot opened up in the competition.
Mariel reflects that she went to Athens to prove to everyone that she was meant to be there the whole time. Despite being only nineteen and the lowest seeded competitor, she came out swinging - literally. A true underdog story, Mariel went on to win the gold medal and break a
Her impact on the Olympic community was recognized as she was chosen by her peers to be the flag-bearer at the London Olympics in 2012. Mariel shares that all of her success didn’t seem too overwhelming until she was highlighted at those Olympics. She felt the pressure mount and missed the podium in both the individual and team events.
Mariel headed home to the support of her family and friends, who she credits with helping her get through the aftermath of
Gearing up for the 2020 Olympics looks different, though. Mariel gave birth to a daughter in 2017 and now balances athletics with motherhood. She says that she didn’t fully comprehend how much her body and mind would change as she became a mom, but feels surprisingly good heading back into competition. She has had to change how she manages training, but, at only seven months postpartum, she took the bronze medal in Moscow at the World Championships and now has her eyes set on a third Olympic gold.
Today, she finds the pressure to win exhilarating instead of paralyzing. She finds confidence in her training and shows up to competitions knowing that she has put in the work, prepared as much as possible, and can let her best effort speak for itself. And win or lose, she credits her coach of 24 years, her family, and her friends for supporting her no matter what. “No one becomes an Olympic champion on their own or by luck,” says Mariel. It’s through hard work and with the backing of her community that she looks forward to Tokyo.
[/et_pb_text][et_pb_toggle title="Read Episode Transcript" admin_label="Transcript" _builder_version="3.19.4" saved_tabs="all"]
Laura:
[00:00:04] Welcome to the Hope Sports Podcast where we chat each week with athletes about purpose. I'm your host Olympic gold medalist Laura Wilkinson. I'm so excited for today's guests not just because she's a personal friend of mine but because there is no limit or barrier that can contain this woman. And I am constantly inspired by her amazing feats. Muriel's Zagunis is the most decorated fencer in American history. But her history-making path wasn't without struggles disappointments and defeats. She shares about her mindset after not qualifying for the Olympic Games. How she learned to find confidence in her training and her life as a mom has changed her perspective. Now listen up because this interview is packed full of wisdom.
Welcome Muriel's goodness to the hope sports podcast. I'm so excited that you're here with us today.
Mariel:
[00:00:55] Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you Laura.
Laura:
[00:00:58] Now I have been blessed and so lucky to know you for a number of years now but for our audience who might not be as familiar with you. Can you give us a little bit of background about how you got started in fencing?
Mariel:
[00:01:09] Sure. Yeah. It's a very obscure sport. Not a lot of people fence or really know what fencing is all about. I have to say in recent years it's gotten more popular which is really cool. So when I tell people that I fence now they actually know that it's a sport and an Olympic sport rather than before when they'd be like, What's that? And so I started fencing now almost. Oh man! Twenty-four years ago almost? And I started because my older brother when we were kids he wanted to sword fight. And so my mom needed to find an outlet for that. And so she found an after school fencing program just at a very very small club. And so I was the younger sibling just sitting there on the sidelines watching him have so much fun hitting people with swords and I thought it looked like fun. So that's that's how we all got started in the random sport of fencing.
Laura:
[00:02:00] Oh that's great. Now your parents were both Olympians. Olympic rowers in the 76 Games in Montreal. Right?
Mariel:
[00:02:06] Yeah that's how they met actually they both made the team.
Laura:
[00:02:09] Oh that's so cool. So was there ever like a push for you and your brothers to be rowers too?
Mariel:
[00:02:14] So. Not really. I think that both my parents being Olympians gave us as kids a sense of what the Olympics were from a very young age probably more so than I don't know your average kid. You know we I remember looking at their Olympic memorabilia books and like all their pictures and hearing their stories and just being like wow! That's so cool! Like I want to be that when I grow up, you know? And It was just kind of this concept that was obtainable. You know I think that some people maybe when they look at trying to aspire to be an Olympian or make an Olympic team or even win a gold medal it seems so far out of reach and it seems so just I don't even know where to begin. But because my both of my parents were Olympians it kind of seemed like oh yes you know that's what they did. So I want to do that. Sure. Why not, you know? And so as far as rowing they never really pushed my brothers and me to try it. But we did have a monitor in our house growing up because my parents still used it for exercise. And so they got us on that a few times. And I was like I'm never doing this again. I remember I was like I don't know eight or nine or something like that and I was like I feel like I'm going to die like I don't even know how much how many meters or whatever I did on it. But I was like nope not for me. I did not seem like fun at all.
Laura:
[00:03:36] Well that's one of those rowing machines right? You can work out on well. I don't. That's tough. That's a tough workout right there.
Mariel:
[00:03:42] Oh my God! Yeah. For anybody. And so then yeah. I was like nope. This doesn't seem like fun. So and luckily they didn't push us one way or the other they were very supportive in whatever we wanted to do. And luckily we found fencing instead of rowing so we created our own.
Laura:
[00:03:57] Well, so I know you said it kind of made it seem normal for you. Like this is a totally achievable thing that I can do. Are there other ways that having Olympian parents is kind of help you throughout your career and even just life and generally, you think?
Mariel:
[00:04:11] Oh my gosh totally. You know even if you're on a clear path towards the Olympics and you know what it takes and you know want to make those sacrifices and you are willing to give it everything you have there are. As you know always going to be ups and downs and obstacles to overcome and failures that you have to pick yourself up from. And I think having parents who went through all that in order to make a team and made the sacrifices that needed to be made and definitely went through their own struggles. For sure helped me and continues to help me to this day, through my journey and through each Olympic games each Olympic cycle. Because everyone has been so different that there's always something that I'm coming to my parents with and needing their help on or seeking their advice for. And it just you know just they've been so supportive and understanding. Especially now being a grown woman with my own child. It's like Wow! They made so many sacrifices to help me achieve these goals and these dreams. And I can never thank them enough like throughout the rest of my life for doing what they did to help me get to the level that I am. That I've got to.
Laura:
[00:05:28] That’s so cool. Was there any part of it that was maybe more difficult like was it was there any pressure on you or any kind of stress on that on that angle or were they always just supportive?
Mariel:
[00:05:39] Oh they were supportive. I don't know again looking back at you know hindsight. And I'm sure you also you have this too because we have similar kind of experiences as far as getting to the top top which is the Olympic gold medal. We didn't just make Olympic teams you and I. We won the Olympic gold medal which is just again just a completely different Echelon than even just making it on an Olympic team. Both are great achievements but of course, the gold medal is what most of us are there for. And so there wasn't too much pressure. You know, Once I was starting to do well and stuff. But I definitely looking back again my parents instilled in me an incredible work ethic. And I think that there was definitely some pressure to be like well you know you're not going to go to your friend's birthday party this weekend. You're gonna go to a fencing competition and things like that where, you know? I definitely like at the moment hated it. Because when you're you know eleven, twelve, thirteen years old you want to be involved and have that social life and all that stuff.
But I think they pushed me in all the right ways and I'm thankful that they did obviously. Because now that I'm grown and have been doing this for so long and I'm on my own as far as like my mom's not going to tell me that I need to go to practice. Like I do it on my own now because I think they instilled in me a really rigorous kind of work ethic mentality. I need to do this. I need to work hard. I need to sacrifice certain aspects of my life in order to be successful. And I know whether or not people would agree with that? It obviously resulted in my Olympic teams and my Olympic medals that I have. So you know. Of course, it obviously worked in some rest in some respects. So.
Laura:
[00:07:24] That's cool. Parenting is a hard sport. I would say in itself. So kudos to your parents for doing a good job.
Mariel:
[00:07:30] Well you get another gold medal in that. Geez! With all that you have going on. My goodness! I have won. I have won. And I don't even know how I make it to the gym half the time these days. And you have four. And I was like, oh my gosh!
Laura:
[00:07:42] Well, you just start juggling at some point. So you know one's always in the air at least.
Mariel:
[00:07:47] Yeah. Yeah. man.
Laura:
[00:07:50] OK. Well back to where we talking about. So the women's saber event it was being contested for the very first time at the 2004 Summer Games. But you actually didn't initially qualify the Nigerian I guess Nigeria. Decided not to send their qualified fencer to the Olympic Games. And since you were the next highest seeded fencer in the world you got selected to go and represent the USA. And you didn't just represent like we mentioned you won America's first gold medal in fencing in 100 years. Please take us through that whole process because that's it's crazy on all friends.
Mariel:
[00:08:25] Yes a definite underdog story to say the least. You know not making the team initially was of course very heartbreaking. And the way that fencing. The qualification goes for fencing the cut off for us at that point was the end of March in 2004. So I had these whole couple months of limbo where I was just like I don't know if I'm going to be able to get this alternate spot. I don't know if my dreams are crushed. I'm going to have to wait another four years for another chance and all this stuff.
And so I think that one of the things that really helped me pull through when the opportunity arose was the fact that I didn't give up. I just even though there was such a small small sliver of hope that I somehow could make the team. I continue to train as if I had already made the team and as if I was going to be there no matter what. And I think that just having that positive mentality having myself. And my whole support system supports me and be like you know what we're going to just see out the rest of these next couple of months. We're going to keep training as if everything worked out the way we expected it to. And you know I think that made a big difference was having that positive attitude. And staying in the gym and not curling up in a ball on a couch and crying every day which is what I wanted to do. When I didn't initially make the team. Because you know like I said that was the end of March and the Olympics weren't until July, August.
And so if I had just kind of given up on everything. I 100 percent would not have been physically or mentally prepared when that opportunity arose. And so I think that having you know very positive support system around me just really rallying and being like you know what you already we're supposed to be you know training these months and getting ready for this Olympics. And so why don't we just see it out and make the most of this time that we have. And that's what I did and luckily I stuck with it because then sure enough you know a couple of months later I found out that I was going to be the alternate. And like I said it was nice to not have the pressure on me. And great to feel physically and mentally prepared for that opportunity.
Laura:
[00:10:37] Well so what was that like? I mean going in. You prepared. You know, Just hoping for that sliver of hope like you said. And then you got to go in and do it. But then you went and won. I mean. What? Did you expect that? Were you surprised? Or were you thinking the whole time like yeah I've got a shot at this?
Mariel:
[00:10:53] I. I believed in myself. And I believe that I had been training and preparing to win an Olympic gold medal. Like I mentioned before. Some people are just as happy working to a personal goal or working to just make the Olympic team. Knowing that I don't know that their time or their weight or their performance isn't where it needs to be to win a gold medal. But you always have to believe in yourself. You always have to think that you can achieve the unthinkable. And I went into that Olympics in Athens just fulfilling my own expectations. I didn't care about what other people were saying about oh she's just an alternate or she doesn't stand a chance and all this stuff. I wasn't listening to me that nobody was even really paying any attention. So I showed up. Just happy to be there. And I was like I'm glad I have the second opportunity this second chance and I'm not going to let it go to waste. And I just fulfilled my own expectations and I went there to win. I knew all along that I was working towards a gold medal. And I just tense my heart out and kind of prove to myself and to the world that I was meant to be there the whole time.
Laura:
[00:12:00] It's so good. I love it! I love it now. What was the aftermath like? Because now all of a sudden you're you're made you've made history. I mean you won this first gold medal for America in like 100 years. I mean what was there a lot of kind of you know stuff thrown on you after that or how was that aftermath?
Mariel:
[00:12:17] I'm not some. I mean like yes or no. It was definitely a whirlwind as you know. It's just like that post-Olympic time. But that couple of months or a handful of weeks where just like everybody kind of wants a piece of you and it's like it's very overwhelming especially as a 19-year-old. and so it was a little bit crazy. But of course, it ended up dying down. And then the ramp up against Beijing four years later there was a lot of hype run around me and repeating and. But you know to be honest our U.S. team was very strong so there was a lot of attention on my teammates as well. And so I don't know I just I think back to that time was already over 10 years ago. So crazy to just think that I just put my head down and dug deep and I was like not even thinking of it as I need to do this or I need to defend my title or anything like that. I just again went out and fence my heart out and did what I knew how to do the best which is you know to perform in and fence how I knew how to fence. And it resulted in another goal which I was extremely satisfied and happy with of course.
Laura:
[00:13:25] And so I mean not only did you just defend your gold medal but you also added a bronze medal in the team event. Now was that? I mean, I guess how is that different having a team to stand on the podium with. Even though it was bronze versus an individual gold medal. Like what's that what is the different feeling I guess in that result?
Mariel:
[00:13:44] Yes it's very different but you know it also means a lot because you're winning that medal with your teammates, you know. And so fencing is a very individual sport and it's also very unique. Because it's kind of like I don't know if you think of it like the track events where you're one day you're running 100 meters against your teammates and you want to beat everybody. It doesn't matter if they're your teammates or not but you're running 100 meters and you want to win and so you win. And then a couple days later you're running the four by 100 meter with your teammates, you know. I mean.
And so that's kind of similar to how it works with fencing. So actually in Beijing, I beat my teammates for brought for that in the semifinals in the finals. I don't know if you remember that we swept so it was like I literally beat them but we also swept the podium and then a couple of days later we went and won a bronze medal together. So we were fencing together so it is a very different mentality when you're going into the team event. But an Olympic medal chance an Olympic medal is really awesome.
And also just real quick not a lot of people realize this the fencing when women's saber was added as it is an Olympic event. They took away or put us I guess in place of another event. They didn't give fencing as a sport more medals or more events so we had to fit in there. So in Athens, we only had the individual. The individual women's saber. In Beijing we had individual and the team back in London we only had individual again and then Rio we had the individual and the team. We have that opportunity to have the team event in Beijing because we didn't have it in Athens was awesome because you know obviously two Olympic medals are better than one to handle.
Laura:
[00:15:24] Definitely. Definitely. Well, so how was winning the very first one in Athens when you were that underdog to winning and defending that title and then winning the one with your teammates? Like I was one better than the other were they both sweet and different ways? Like what? Yeah. Explain that to me.
Mariel:
[00:15:40] Yeah. I get asked that question a lot. It's sweet in different ways for sure. It's like choosing between your children. And you know like you can't decide like which one. They're both so different experiences and you know to win Athens you know being an alternate first gold medal in 100 years for the US, first gold medal for Olympic medal for women's saber, and then to repeat in Beijing. That's repeat. That's four years later defending your title. Yeah. So is they all this every Olympics. Again as you know I'm sure has its own feel its own memories its own just everything that goes into it. It's just a different time in your life too, you know? Four years is a is a long time a lot of changes, you know. So it's just. They're both very very special to me in their own way.
Laura:
[00:16:28] That's cool. So OK you have two Olympic gold medals and a bronze and you decide to keep on going. And so you're heading into London 2012 for your third Olympic games. Did that feel like walking into Beijing where you're defending again even though you said you kind of kept your head down and you just wanted to do your thing? Or was this like you mentioned each Olympic Games is different was this is a totally separate event?
Marie:
[00:16:50] I think it was it felt different for sure. Again it's like your third Olympics is ofcourse going to feel very different than your first. And then I have the added kind of attention on me being selected to be the flag bearer. And I think that that kind of changed the mentality a little bit. Because suddenly you know I went from two Olympics and you know making history. Which was awesome! But not a lot of people really paid attention to it to all of a sudden huge spotlight on my story and my history and my performance and this and that.
And so I think it definitely changed the way I felt that my performance went to London because of that. I mean not to say that who knows how it would have gone if I wasn't selected Siberian flag. Being flag bearer was an incredible honor and it was such an amazing experience to lead Team USA into the opening ceremony. I was just absolutely incredible. But it probably ended up being the highlight for me for the London games because I did come away empty handed.
Laura:
[00:17:57] Yeah. I mean that is because you didn't even walk in Beijing, did you? because you were the first day of competition.
Marie:
[00:18:02] Yeah. We're the first day.
Laura:
[00:18:03] So did you do the opening ceremony in Athens?
Marie:
[00:18:07] I did opening but not closing in Athens.
Laura:
[00:18:10] Okay. This is your set your second opening ceremony and your flag there. I mean because that's huge. It is a huge deal because all the U.S. athletes come together. And they pitch their favorite stories. And the athletes are the ones that vote on it. And so I remember when I heard you got selected I was so excited. Just cause I knew you and I knew your story. And you know I was there with NBC with the media. But I was so stoked that it was you and watching you just carry that flag. It was really really cool. But I can imagine the pressure that must come with that.
So do you think you just kind of let that in? Or I guess yeah. What. You know, I guess what aspect of it that you think affected the performance?
Marie:
[00:18:49] Again it's hard to say because you don't have a crystal ball to say what would have happened had I not been flagged there? I was very excited to have been given that honor for sure. But like I said it with it comes a lot of added attention a lot of added stress. A lot of extra interviews that maybe you know otherwise I wouldn't have been a part of. You know, what I mean? Because then you know you want to be part of all the press conferences and all that.
But it was I mean again to have that experience obviously. But I would have loved to have had my cake and eat it too. As far as having the flag there and then come away with an Olympic and another Olympic gold medal. So but again who's who's to say what my performance would have been either way. But yeah you know it does add a little bit of pressure to you because suddenly you're being seen by millions of people in the opening ceremony. Which again is absolutely incredible. To have represented not only my country but to represent female athletes and to represent the sport of fencing. Like there were so many things that just made me beam with pride as I walked through to the stadium. But yeah I definitely probably was a little bit of a distraction a little bit of an energy drainer. But who's to say. I mean I don't know maybe this would have still gotten the same result but who knows. But yeah it was definitely disappointing as far as my performance side of things.
Laura:
[00:20:16] All right. And it's I mean you didn't totally take. I mean you lost in the bronze medal match. You finished fourth just off the podium which. I think we talked a few years ago about this and you said you were a little devastated. I mean how? It's obviously a very different experience from winning two times in a row and you have won so many like world titles and everything else like. I don't think you're very accustomed to not being on the podium. So how did you handle that defeat and move on?
Marie:
[00:20:45] Yeah. I would say I was more than a little bit devastated for sure. It was like just as you said you know when you're so accustomed to not that not that it's been easy at all. You know. You work. You. Again. I feel like I'm talking and preaching to the choir here. But like you know how hard you have to work to win and not only win but win consistently. And I just felt like suddenly the formula didn't work. And that was just a very odd place for me to be in. Because I'm like wait a minute this is what I've been doing my whole life and it's working more often than not working. And then suddenly when it's the biggest most important competition that I've already know how to win. It's not like you know a choke under pressure. I mean I guess I did choke on the pressure but like it's not. Like it was my first experience being in an Olympic final. To have it not play out how I was used to the last two Olympics was very very difficult to wrap my mind around.
And so coming back from that you know I had to step away from fencing for a little bit I took quite a long break. And I was like, man I don't know if I can do this again. But then I was like I have to do this! Like I have to come back and I have to prove to myself that this one loss does not define me. And I have to say to myself that I have another shot at Rio and I'm just gonna take these next quad and really work even harder to make sure that you know I can not come away empty-handed from my next Olympics.
Laura:
[00:22:28] So I love that. I absolutely love that. And so how? What changed exactly in your mindset or in your purpose or in what you were doing? Like what shifted to make that change to keep going?
Marie:
[00:22:43] I think that it was definitely humbling in a way. You know it's like I know sounds like I don't know spoiled or something to be like Oh well I'm used to winning the Olympics. For me, you know? So I think that it was humbling in a way that I was like I'm not going to take anything for granted.
You know it's not that I was before. But it's like every minute that I was in the gym was purposeful. And every competition that I went to was I was there to prove a point to myself. And I was there to learn. And I was there to you know just to make myself a better fencer. Each and every day whether it's through practice or competition and learning through my mistakes. Whether that be the mistakes that I made in mundane or the mistakes that I made in the tournament that I competed in last month.You know it's like I'm constantly wanting to improve upon myself. And just getting smarter and working harder. And you know working harder in different ways as well. Because you know obviously like I said I thought the formula I have had the magic touch but it proved me wrong in London. So I just really wanted to kind of turn things around and figure out another answer to how to get there.
Laura:
[00:24:01] Well so four years later you are in Rio and you got another bronze with the team which was awesome. You got ninth individually. So was was that a successful Games to you? How do you feel about all that?
Marie:
[00:24:15] Honestly I don't think that I would say that was not I mean successful as in not coming away empty-handed feels. So much different than coming away empty handed. So getting the bronze with my team was yes that was definitely a success for us. We lost a very very close match with Russia to make the gold medal around so that was a big bummer because we were so close. And they’re one of our toughest competitors and so to almost have beaten them if we had beat them on the Olympic stage would have just been incredible. So I wish that we had pulled through just a little bit more. But you know again to have a second opportunity after we lost to them to come away with a bronze and solidly come away with the bronze when we beat Italy was great. I think it was. We all had really great performances and I was happy with the team performance. Individually not so much and unfortunately just wasn't my day. Like I just didn't feel like it was my day. And that happens and that's a lot you're allowed to have that happen. And it was definitely again heartbreaking because it's not like I was even close to a medal that time. And so you know again you kind of come away from that and say what can I learn and how can I change? And if I'm going to go to Tokyo which that's my next goal again how am I going to make sure that when I'm there that doesn't happen again. And I can have a clear mind and a strong body and connect the two in the way that it needs to happen.
Laura:
[00:25:49] I love your mindset. I love the way you look at things like it's just such a gray. It's just a growth perspective. Like you just want to grow no matter what. And I love that because you can't be defeated if you're continuing to grow and to change and to learn and I think that's awesome.
Marie:
[00:26:02] Exactly. Yeah.
Laura:
[00:26:04] Well now it's a little different like you said you got your eyes set on a fifth Olympic Games in Tokyo 2020. Which is crazy amazing! But now it's a little different because you're a wife and a mom. And so I'm assuming things have changed a little bit like you mentioned earlier with training and competing. Like what's? How does that look right now?
Marie:
[00:26:24] I mean again I'm sure you can most definitely attest to this. It's crazy how much your life changes when you have a kid when you are a working mom but couple that with professional athlete working mom. I mean oh my goodness! It's just it isn't saying the things that I let my body did when I was pregnant. I just can't even believe that I was pregnant and I had a baby and she's here and she's amazing and now I'm a mom. And it's just it just seems so surreal at times. I'm just like is this really my life.
Just because you know as a professional athlete for so long you have to be so selfish in the way that you train in the way that you compete and you're traveling all the time. And you're tired and you don't wanna like sometimes you don't want to talk to anybody. And you just want to lay there and you know how it goes. And so now to have this other part of my life that is now the biggest part of my life. It changes your perspective in such an amazing way. Because now like I said before when I go to the gym and I'm like I don't want to waste a minute. Now I literally don't have a minute to waste because like every time that I'm away from her I need to make it worth it. And I need to hurry up and get that workout in. So I can come home and give her lunch and put her down for a nap. You know what I mean. So just like it changes your outlook on the way that you train and the way that you time manage. But I'm always up for a challenge and it's been challenging in an in a really amazing way. So it's it's been really great.
Laura:
[00:27:57] I totally agree there. Because I think now I must have been really lazy when I was just me and with my husband. Now I am like I got 30 minutes I can clean the house do all these things I can get. Like a week's worth of stuff done in 30 minutes now.
Marie:
[00:28:10] I know. It's really crazy how different you're like. And I think that you're probably gonna say this too. But it's like some days you're like I feel like I'm gonna implode. I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm still so incompetent I don't even know you just feel slight so drained. And then other days you get to the end of the day you're like I'm superwoman! I keep you going! I don't even need to go to bed! I could just keep doing! All this stuff. And so it's just it's crazy how just the days wax and wane like that. But it's again it's like every day that's a new challenge. And it's exciting and in some way.
Laura:
[00:28:46] That's cool. Now. And you already went to like several competitions this year. And I mean I kept trying to like message you and you were like in France or you're over here. Crazy! But how is it getting back into that groove? Because I know what seven months to the day after you gave birth to Sunday you won a bronze medal in Moscow. And then I think the last time you medaled was why you were you were actually pregnant. Weren't you?
Marie:
[00:29:09] Yeah. Uh-hmm.
Laura:
Oh gosh! That's crazy! So what was it like getting back into that competition groove after having some time off to have a baby and have this new kind of change of programming?
Marie:
[00:29:21] Uh-hmm. Yeah. And it's. It is a change and I went to actually those were the two international or the Moscow one was the Grand Prix last season. And then I went to our national championships in April and then another national tournament in October and I won both of those two.
[00:29:40] It's like it's nice to kind of come back and feel like I can win again. And that I'm like on the podium again and I actually feel surprisingly good. Like I don't like I was, of course, I've never had a baby and had to come back before. So I didn't know how it was going to go but it's going really well and I feel fresh. And I feel fierce. And I feel like I'm just ready to be back where I was. But just like with a new perspective because I think that break was really really good for me to kind of feel like recharged. And I'm like I want to be there instead of like again I'm sure you can attest to this it's like when you're going day in day out the competition. This that. And it kind of gets to be monotonous and it kind of gets to be like you feel a little burnt out. Having such a long break and now coming back and having kind of a new perspective. And also new goals because it's like well I'm doing this for my daughter now to really kind of recharges you and energizes you to really fight even harder and gives you that extra motivation which is really cool.
Laura:
[00:30:49] Very cool. Well, you just wrote a beautiful article for Team USA. And you were recalling your win from Beijing because it's like your 10 year anniversary this year. And one of the things that you wrote that I loved you said when there's a gold medal at stake in history to be made it can feel either exhilarating paralyzing or a combination of any and all emotions in between.
[00:31:11] So how do you rise above all of that to perform your best when it means the most?
Marie:
[00:31:17] I mean that's just such a loving question. Well, sometimes you just have to use. You just. You just gotta do it. You just really literally when you go to the Olympics or a national competition or worlds or what have you. You can't think of it as like oh my gosh this is the Olympics or oh my gosh this is going to make or break my career. You just have to show up and know that you've been working so hard and that you've left no stone unturned when it comes to your preparation. And then you can just fall back on that. Not fall back but you can you can feel calm and you can feel in control because if you know that you've been preparing and working towards this moment then you can rely on your muscle memory. You can rely on your mental toughness because you know that you've prepared yourself.
[00:32:10] And I think that's something that maybe when some. I obviously can't speak for every situation ever. But when I think when people falter is because they suddenly think that they're not prepared. Or that they haven't put the work in or they have been lying themselves or you know something like that. And so all of that crowds your crowds your ability to think clearly and to perform at your best. And so I think that if you really prepare yourself and work hard leading up to the moment then when you're in the moment it's like second nature.
Laura:
[00:32:42] Perfect. You also wrote this when you stand on top of the podium at the Olympics there's no greater feeling as all of your hard work and years of sacrifice come to fruition. And what the world sees is an accomplished relieved ecstatic and usually weeping athlete. What the world doesn't see is the team behind the athlete because no one becomes an Olympic champion on their own luck or not on their own or by luck. To this day I'm so incredibly thankful for my support system coaches family friends and teammates who make this all possible. So tell us a little bit about your support system?
Marie:
[00:33:15] My support system has been amazing. It has been the reason for my success. I've been with the same coach Ed Korfanty for almost twenty-four years my entire career. So that says a lot about where my success comes from. Obviously, my parents have supported me from the moment I first picked up fencing. I was gonna say a saber but actually, I started with foil. But let's not focus on that.
[00:33:45] You know first my parents supporting me through everything from the ups and downs to paying for the club fees and the tournament fees and all of my international plane tickets. I mean I just I look back now and I'm just like I cannot believe that they the sacrifices that they made in order for me to come from a very young age get the experience that I needed to accelerate me on the onto the Olympic path. And you know just also even my friends my very close friends whether they're my teammates or my friends here at home it's just to have so much support and to feel so loved no matter what. You know I think that has made a big difference because especially just looking back on my experience in Athens when I all of my friends and family obviously knew that that was my goal to make the Olympic team in 2004 but to fall short of that. But to still have the support and the shoulders to cry on when I was going through that tough time just really made all the difference. And I think that throughout my career just to be surrounded by such positivity just makes such a big difference. And I know you know this too. Because if you're just thinking that you're doubting yourself some days which obviously going through you know a performance-based sport where you are measured on your performance you know. Because if it's like win or lose you need that support system that's gonna support you no matter what. And and I've had that throughout my entire career and I think that that's made all the difference because it's helped me believe in myself when I don't believe in myself. They believe me when I don't believe myself and they're there to help pick me up when I don't. When I fall short of what it is that I think is ideal and they'll support me no matter what.
[00:35:34] And so I think that that's made a big difference in my outlook on my career and my outlook on myself and my results. And also honestly on my decision to keep going because if I didn't have that support system then I probably would feel more discouraged and let myself get the best of myself when times get tough. So I think that this just made a really big difference throughout my career.
Laura:
[00:35:57] That's great. I mean you've mentioned over the past year you've experienced amazing victories, heartbreaking defeats, days where you felt unstoppable, and days where you felt lost and unsure. What is it that keeps you going? I mean why a fifth Olympic Games? Like what keeps you motivated and pushing through all the time?
Marie:
[00:36:17] Well I think honestly it's that elusive third gold medal in the individual event that I have fallen short of the past two Olympics. And to have the ability to keep going and to have another opportunity is something that I don't want to pass up because what we do is time sensitive as you know it's like well I mean you're out. So like supermom you're coming back to try the Olympics too. So it's like it is time sensitive in a way for me. And so you know I think my motivation comes from wanting to prove to myself that I can do it because I know I can.
[00:36:53] And then also I don't think that Sunday will remember Tokyo she'll be not even three. So I don't think she'll remember but I think it'll be really great to make those memories with her. Because you know I can. We can look back together and be like this is what Mommy did. And when you have a goal these are you know you have to sacrifice should resign and there'll be a lot of life lessons I think for her as far as dedication and hard work goes. And I want to set a good example for her.
[00:37:19] So just being able to set one of these really crazy goals incredible goals and work really hard towards it is something that can be really satisfying. Despite the obstacles along the way. So yeah that's that's pretty much my motivation.
Laura:
[00:37:37] I totally agree. That's great.
[00:37:39] Now, where can we follow you online to continue to be inspired and encouraged by you. And also cheer you on toward Tokyo? We're going.
Marie:
[00:37:46] Yeah. Yeah. I’m on my Instagram @mariel.zagunis is my handle and yeah. Try to post our season just started but we don't have another competition until the end of January. But once that starts then it'll be. Go go go. So there'll be a lot of updates and stuff going on in there. So that's where to find me.
Laura:
[00:38:07] Well thank you so much. And best of luck to you. We will be cheering you on toward Tokyo.
Marie:
[00:38:13] Thank you, Laura.
Laura:
[00:38:16] I'm so thankful to Marielle for sharing with us on today's show. I loved hearing about the pivotal shift in her mindset after missing the podium in London. Instead of focusing so much on proving herself she was able to instead move into more of a growth mindset constantly wanting to improve herself. She doesn't let losses define her but rather they shape her, teach her and develop her as an athlete and as a person. It's amazing to see that out of that transition not only came for their success but also a richer appreciation of her sport and more confidence in herself. To keep being inspired by Marielle and to follow her adventures toward Tokyo 2020. Be sure to check out the show notes where we link to everything that you heard today. Next week world champion water skier Ryan Dodd will be joining us. So be sure to subscribe to the hope sports podcast because you're not going to want to miss this one. And please leave us a review because those reviews will help us continue to get these amazing athletes on this show. I'm Laura Wilkinson. Thanks again for listening. This podcast is produced by Evo Terra in simpler media. For more information on Hope sports and to access the complete archives please visit Hope Sports story.
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“Emotional health always determines performance even when physical health is at its peak.”
Ben Houltberg joins us this week not only as a former elite
Years of research led Houltberg to determine that there are two primary ways that athletes develop their identity: either Performance Based or Purpose Based. Athletes with Performance Based Identity often have a strong fear of failure, are perfectionistic, and are not motivated by the desire to do their best, but rather to avoid a loss. On the other hand, those who have developed a Purpose Based Identity set goals that are attainable, participate in activities that are personally
Unfortunately,
Houltberg shares that athletes should be aware of the markers of
But what happens to their performance? Research shows that it actually improves. Those who develop a Purpose Based Identity not only succeed greatly at an elite level, but bounce back more quickly and fully after injury or loss, have greater longevity in their sport, and are better at regulating their emotions. Overall, they are happier and healthier athletes and individuals.
Houltberg recommends that athletes start this shift by giving back. Contributing and connecting with the greater community serves as an antidote to depression. And by discovering what they value in the world, they will be better able to better understand what they value about themselves outside of sports. This intrinsic motivation will not only benefit them on the
To learn more about Ben
[/et_pb_text][et_pb_toggle admin_label="Transcript" title="Read Episode Transcript" _builder_version="3.19.4" saved_tabs="all"]
Laura
[00:02:07] Dr. Ben Hallberg thank you so much for being on Hope Sports Podcast. We're excited you're here.
Ben
[00:02:21] Thank you. it's great to be here.
Laura
[00:02:24] Now give us a little bit of background because I know you used to be an athlete as well. Tell me kind of how you got your start and what your experience was
Ben
[00:02:24]Yeah. I mean, I grew up in the heartland in Kansas. And you know sports said there had been a part of my life I think from the beginning and throughout my kind of high school career, I ended up really excelling in track and field. So as a distance middle distance and distance runner mainly distance runner and high school and I started to experience success and won some state championships in track and cross country got a scholarship to college and had several offers coming out of high school and I chose to go to a school a smaller school, division1 school and then collegiately there.
And here's where I really started running more than a hundred meters and qualify for the NCAA championships a couple times. And then post-collegiately I got to run for U.S. indoor championships and won someone on the circuit and picked up a small sponsor and really enjoyed running. I think as you know there's a lot of athletes that probably feel this way but I think there's you know it was a challenge for me. I had eight stress fractures in my time from college to post coach collegiately. So is always that balance of training hard but being aware of this kind of propensity towards stress fractures and so I couldn't I couldn't really stay healthy long enough to keep going. And I was starting my PHC program at the time and so was 2007 I decided to stop to stop running competitively and just go full tilt and PHC program.
Laura
[00:04:28] Wow. So I mean I had to be pretty frustrating getting injured so frequently. I mean was part of that frustration has led you to be so interested and like the emotional health of elite athletes?
Ben
[00:04:32]I mean absolutely. I remember my freshman year of college I had just come from one and you know being the top in this day. And I remember lining up on the line the first time I Ripley's math weight and looking at the program and seeing how many state champions were actually on the line. There was so many of them so you kind of go from that big fish in a small pond.
To now a whole new world but I got into that first year and I really fell into a deep depression. It was a struggle for me. I had really built a lot of my sense of identity worth and value around running. And so, really had a pretty prosperous high school career with without too many challenges. So when I first hit that first kind of wall of getting my first stress fracture. It was really hard for me. And so you know I was kind of a constant like getting entry cross training coming back getting injured cross training coming back. And so I think that really became a part of my passion was that to help elite athletes deal with the obstacles and the emotional turmoil from being injured.
And I remember at the U.S. open actually I had trained. Been training so well and was it really just fantastic shape but had a lot of things going on in my life that were difficult at the time. And went to that meet and I really just-I just blew up. I just didn't run well. I had really put a lot of time and energy into getting there and I remember going back to the hotel room feeling completely alone and just sitting down in the shower and weeping and crying.
And there was something about that it just was so impactful for me like I had put so much time and I really felt like I was ready for a breakthrough race at that need. Then the devastation I felt when I didn't perform. I didn't really know why? I think physically I was ready at that time I didn't know why? But the more that I kind of studied this area and understood one more I've been able to kind of look back at that time in my life and say, Oh I see how I was really pulling for my resources before the race even started because of how anxious I was about not performing well. And so that belief and really the passion and purpose for me of helping athletes be able to compete with purpose and be emotionally healthy and perform well.
And so...
Laura
[00:07:36] Yeah. I love that. And I love what you've been researching along those lines of teaching about performance-based identity versus that purpose based identity. Can you explain to us what exactly is performance-based identity?
Ben
[00:07:36]Yeah. So performance based identity. It’s really this putting. When athletes put their soul worth and value or the main source of their worth and value into how they perform in sports. It's usually accompanied by this fear of failure that you almost as if now I'm not competing to even be my best but I'm performing I'm competing not to lose. And there's this contend to be this perfectionistic kind of concern or drive that I have to be perfect. Those three fear failure, this work, and value based on performance and this kind of perfection is concerned created. I found in my research this self-narrative or this idea about the self that was really unhealthy for athletes emotionally also contributed to poor performance. And cripple them after they had a disappointing performance. They had high levels of shame and guilt.
And so this performance-based identity really is can be something that's often celebrated even sometimes by coaches because this athlete might be the athlete that comes to practice every day they're grinding, they're pushing, they're doing the extra things maybe even sometimes you have to slow them down. They might even be a coach who says I wish I could bottle up with that athlete has and give it to everybody else. But the problem is there's the shadow side to that to that is unknown to a lot of people. And that's what I've found is that these athletes were where had the highest levels of depression and anxiety and weren't of life in the relationships where we're not healthy and they say they saw competition as a threat to themselves. They feared to fail. In their mindsets where were more of this kind of performance mindsets not more of that kind of growth mindset. So that's what you know, I think as I started to see this emerge in the data and all the work that I've been doing the story became really clear to me that this might motivate athletes for a while and work for a while. Like because it does push them to want to get better. But it's not sustainable over time.
Laura
[00:10:23] Yeah. I mean I heard you see it talked it like it can be when they're anticipating that next competition and they have that performance-based kind of identity that they can even physically experience like when you see a physiological reaction like they're being threatened by a dog or something. Can you kind of explain that? Like it's not just in your handling it comes out in other ways.
Ben
[00:10:45] Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I think that's what you said is really important it's not just in your head. It's in your body. It's a physiological response. So the work that I started doing early on in my career was really around this idea of emotion regulation and how people manage emotional responses especially kids from high-risk neighborhoods where they're exposed to violence on a regular basis. Physiologically what happens when you're physically threatened is your sympathetic nervous system is activated to become aware to become heightened of your surroundings and it's adaptive it's protective. But something like 100 different neuro and biophysical logical chemicals are released and changes in the body are happening in a way that pulls and manages your resources just to manage that threat.
[00:11:41] So in other words if the pleading you have resources just to manage that threat and what's incredible is that our body can't tell a difference between an actual threat to your physical self and a threat to your social self. So when you put your worth and value in so much into how you perform the very thought or anticipation of competition can trigger that same sympathetic nervous system as if you're being threatened that can deplete you before you ever get to the competition. I mean adrenaline is something that can be helpful as a facilitator for certain sports in certain events. But that sense of excitement that can come of just being ready for the competition. But it's not sustainable over time adrenaline cannot keep going. So if you're starting that kind of adrenaline spurts every time you think of competition two weeks, three weeks, one week out what you're doing is you're beginning to pull from your resources so when the moment comes. It's going to be really hard to turn that on. You might fall flat you might feel tired even though you've tapered you've trained well and you're ready for that moment. There's still something physiologically that that can happen with the athletes it's high performance based identity.
Laura
[00:12:59] That's so interesting because you like as an athlete as a high-level athlete myself. I know I do like some adrenaline I like the nerves I like that kind of heightened awareness in the competition or leading right up to it. But yeah if you're doing it weeks before you're just gonna be completely wiped out. Because like when your adrenaline is gone I mean you're left with nothing. So yeah I can imagine the toll that would take on you physically as well as mentally.
Ben
[00:13:30] Right. Right. I think that most high-level athletes know that feeling of like you know kind of thinking about competition and beginning to feel yourself getting amped and saying oh not yet not yet, you know? I got to keep I've got to regulate this right now. But I also think there's some you know other things that you can see and think about with performance-based identity is it's not always conscious either is that we anticipate threats often in our mind. They become a part of how we see the world and sometimes we're not even aware of it. And so we might not even be aware of that get our stress hormones high and we're stressed and that's the way the body works. And then once you kind of reach this our static load of stress it can be really hard to bounce back from that.
Laura
[00:14:25] Well I think. Yeah. I had seen you've written kind of some warning signs of performance-based identity that I'll just kind of list coz I guess if you're not aware. These warning signs are maybe a great way to see if you are kind of in that zone, right? So we have and let’s see. You have one sport are not fun anymore? That might be like a warning sign of a performance-based identity. Another one is fear of failure is stronger than the excitement to compete. Anxiety increases before the competition even including like sleep disruption. Bouncing back from a disappointing performance is difficult maybe there's a desire to quit or find excuses just not even to compete. Some descriptions only relate to being an athlete. You only see yourself as an athlete and not somebody separate from your sport. I also have feelings of worthlessness when not performing well. You might ruminate on mistakes made in the competition like you can't let go of jealousy or anger is distributed and demonstrated towards others performing better than you. And also an obsession develops with working harder practicing more just like you mentioned earlier. So I guess if you're not even aware. Like if you're starting to see some of those signs like you may kind of want to get yourself in check. Right?
Ben
[00:14:25] yeah. yeah totally.
[00:15:36] And I mean it's you know I think. You could speak to this laura and a lot of ways as a professional athlete. There are some of these warning signs that are really hard. I mean I think even it's more like the first one as far as sports not fun anymore. It's not always fun to work hard, you know that? And so I think even better are to go deeper in that thought is that there's a loss of joy for the sport. That the very thing that really attracted you to that.
But I also will have athletes stop and remember and think about that time where they started that sport and take them back to that time of being a child of standing maybe on the diving board for the first time or whatever it was about diving that attracted you to it. And whether it's running whatever it is. And really have them imagine themselves back in that scenario what was the feelings what were the sensations what were the things that really made this attractive. Because that's what's often lost is that the gifts and the joy of the sport become a burden. And we don't function near as well off of negative emotion as we do and he's more positive emotional states. And so there are times that negative emotions can help us and facilitate some progress. But overall that joy state of being able to really connect to what's meaningful and is really critical to being able to perform without getting you in your own way. Like you know?
[00:17:26] And so I think these times really are things that kind of point to and say, okay I need to maybe take a look at this and think about what is the source of my motivation and is there a way to find other more healthy motivation that can also help me be the best that I can possibly be.
Laura
[00:17:49] I love that. And I think it's important to point out like these are for every level of athlete can experience from you know kind of beginner like a young teenage athlete up until you know the top of the top. Like we pointed out you know Michael Phelps went in rehab after a DUI and he kind of had a summary based on his like performance-based identity and I'll quote it here he said, “I wound up uncovering a lot of things about myself for a long time I saw myself as an athlete that as the athlete that I was but not as a human being”. So nobody's really above this. Everybody can kind of be susceptible and I think sometimes we kind of go in and out of it. You've said any high achiever with a performance-based identity risk can feel devastated when they fall short of their goals or having actually even realized their dream and finding it empty.
[00:18:37] So I guess the big question is? Okay. Maybe we recognize that we have that performance-based identity or we-we deal with that sometimes like how do you change it?
Ben
[00:18:37]Yeah. Well, the first thing I would say when we talk about changing performance based identity is that it's always gonna be a process for a high achiever. There's always gonna be elements and times in life where we're all experience this kind of performance-based identity. I think it's beginning to shift it so that it's more your identity and work begins to become centered around something more meaningful in your life. The motivation is drawing from something deeper than just winning medals or proving your worth of value. That this is really when we talk about purpose is that.
The purpose is a powerful motivator that organizes our sense of identity around what we value the most. So a purpose is a great anecdote when we talk about this. Because purpose involves really three things. The first thing purpose involves is doing something that is personally meaningful to you. The second thing is having a goal or an aim that you're moving towards. So both of those are very easy in the sport to kind of capture. But the third piece is really important and this piece is that you're connected to something that is greater than yourself that makes a contribution to this world. One of the things that we've seen in the research is that people who have these three parts of purpose there's something about giving to others is something about doing something beyond yourself and connecting to something meaningful beyond yourself. There really is stabilizing in our sense of identity it gives us a sense of it starts with us really understanding our own sense of worth and value. It's hard to be. It's hard to create value if you don't feel like you're a person of value. And I think that's what becomes really key and purpose is it is a way to begin to help form our sense of worth and identity in something that's much more foundational than just performance.
And so we found that this purpose based identity that involves the self-worth and value that I understand their self-worth and value outside of just sports as well as this purpose and even a view of myself in the future after sport. These athletes also were just as accomplished and their performance was just as high. There’s no difference in our athletes that were in this performance-based versus purpose based identity. But they by far emotionally psychologically and the way they viewed competition and the way they bounce back from the competition were much superior to the performance-based identity athletes. They were able to identify and turn to other people in relationships for emotional support and in ways that were helpful for them. They had higher levels of life satisfaction feeling good about their life. They were able to regulate their emotions better. There's a great emotion regulation strategy that's really important called reappraisal and we can kind of redefine our reframe a negative situation in a way that allows us to overcome it that allows us to not be hijacked emotionally by it.
And so these are the purpose space that any athletes were able to do that better. They saw competition as a challenge. They embraced opportunity to become better. And so that to me is really what I think is the shift it's shifting from this performance-based identity to purpose-based identity. But there's always going to be a flux there that we have to be aware of and know and become aware of when we're going kind of more towards performance-based identity side of saying Ok well how do I get back to purpose understanding that and let that motivate me. Because sports is. The nature of sports and high achievement you have to work hard. You have to make lots of sacrifices. You want to be able to push yourself beyond what you ever thought you could. Those are all healthy pursuits. But what drives it really matters and that's the part that's going to impact your emotional and relational health.
Laura
[00:23:13] And that doesn't keep you going when things get tough too. For sure.
Ben
[00:23:13] Absolutely.
Laura
[00:23:13] Questions. So if people are finding that their kind of performance-based and they're struggling with that that they're recognizing it they want to become where purpose-based. These relationships are really important for that. Like what if they're a little isolated? Like they don't have a lot of support of people around them. Like what can they do to get past that and get through that and find that purpose?
Ben
[00:23:13] Yeah. I mean. I think that's often a result of this performance based identity is this even if it's on purpose to this isolation for meaningful relationships. And so, I think that the reason why relationships are so powerful. Healthy relationships are so powerful is because they remind you that you are of worth and value. They remindyou of your uniqueness. That somebody cares about you deeply not just for what you can do for them but because of who you are.
So when I work with athletes one of the first steps that I do is really try to help them engage and the people around them. Often there is somebody around them that they've had a meaningful relationship with and a healthy way that maybe they need to reconnect with and be reminded of a really simple task to do this. Had one athlete who I had her give the people that she knew around her that cared about her and had to give them little sheets of paper that they were supposed to write something. How did they saw her? How would they describe her And then, they were to fold them up to tape on and she wasn't supposed to look at them. So they brought him back and then I kind of did this mindful activity with her. And just had it which is really just kind of giving her space to focus on her breathing and being present. And then, I read these statements to her knowing that these were all people who cared about her. The statements that were being read about her were so different than how she saw herself when it came to the more negative things. So it was challenging her negative self-talk through the voice of meaningful relationships. And I think that was really positive for her now.
Now the goal was to get her to start to internalize that voice for herself. Relationships are powerful because it reminds us of our worth and value. We do better when we're connected. We face challenges better we do with pain better. There's lots of great research to show this. And so the relationships become really a foundation for helping people begin to shift from front space with them and giving them a sense of worth that helps them now start to think about what is my kind of meaning and purpose, and what can I to do differently in practice every day whether it's learning to the practice of gratitude or generosity of doing things for other people or challenging negative self-talk. That begin over time to create habits that they get and become a part of our identity.
Laura:
[0026:29]So powerful! So many good takeaways here. Now, with all of this good information thinking of the athletes and maybe where they might be if they could take away one thing like one thing they should do today that would help them move more toward that purpose based identity. What would you suggest?
Ben:
[00:26:47]One of the thing that I think is often most powerful is to have athletes reflect on what is meaningful in their life. Often people will be able to talk about what's meaningful in their lives but they actually don't connect that to their athletic pursuit. They often kind of keep them separate. When you get somebody who talks about things like their family that their family is that's a value for them as is their relationship with their family. Why is that a value for you? What is it about that? It's a value and that you know it's just a connection and that's love and this loyalty and you start to see these things. So the first thing I would say is to sit down and write down, what is meaningful to you? What do you value? What are the things that you value about yourself or the things that you see as important values in your life? And then next to it really write down how are you living in that every day? Like what is your current life patterns and habits that they would be consistent with those things that you say you value? And just taking stock of that. And often with performance-based identity what you'll find is what's meaningful and valued at a deep level. And there might be things on that list like winning gold medals, breaking records or things like that.
There's nothing wrong with that but if that's the only dominant values in someone's life. That's where it gets challenging. And so thinking and pushing yourself to not just think about the athletic value or calls or pursuits but beginning to think about what is in life that brings most meaning to you and fulfillment to you and then how are you living in that every day. That can be an honest assessment of where you're at. I think that's important. I would say though that I would say don't wait till you feel like making the shift go. I mean this is a maybe a plug for Hope sports but go do. I mean the power of going to build with hope sports is is that you're doing something for the other and then you can start to really reflect on what that. Why is that meaningful to you? And if you can't make it to a build do it find some things that are meaningful to you and your neighborhood and your community and recognize that this isn't just good PR to go do good for others that when you do good for others that's just important as important for the transformation of your own identity. And I think that starts to give you a taste of what purposes it was possible with purpose. And once you get a taste of what's the possible purpose you will continue to go after it. Because it brings fulfillment in a different way.
Laura
[00:29:54] And then that's going to move you past sport too. Because if you have an injury and you have to retire or if you're just it's time to move on. Like what is going to be in your life and how do you focus and move on if you've always just been performance-based do. You have to know. As you said, what your value is in the value in others and you have to have that purpose beyond your sport to really kind of be successful in life too.
Ben
[00:30:17] Absolutely yeah. And that's a reality that I think is it can be really difficult to face for a lot of athletes. When they're done competing, what now? And for some athletes that's you know 21 for some that's 24, 25 some sports got go up to you know later in life and 40s and 50s, you know? But there's still a time where you finish and you have to say, okay what? How do I? What do I start to put my time and energy and now it's meaningful. And I think if you can start that as an athlete it's such a good foundation for that transition.
Laura
[00:30:58] And just for those of you who may not be aware of what Hope Sports is? This is the Hope Sports Podcast from an amazing organization called Hope Sports that brings athletes together to come down to Mexico in impoverished countries to build homes for the poor. And not only are you making a difference for a family that does not have a roof over their heads or does not have a solid foundation to stand on. But you also are impacted in just amazingly dramatic ways and all the people around you. It's such an incredible experience! And like Ben said, it's a great way to find value and purpose outside of yourself if you don't know how to do that. It is an amazing way to start.
And you know, check out HopeSports.org to learn more about that organization. An amazing organization that is sponsoring this podcast.
So, Ben? You are amazing and inspiring us all to go beyond our sport and find purpose in our sport, through our sport, in our lives. Where can we find you on the interwebs so that we can follow you and continue to get all this valuable information?
Ben
[00:31:57] Yeah. I do a lot of my work at a center called the Thrive Center for Human Development. And You can go to the website at TheThriveCenter.org. You can also follow me on my social media I'm on Instagram and also started on Twitter. So, try to gain like add more to Twitter coz I'm getting better at it.
Laura:
[00:32:51]I'm on a hundred nobody cared less.
Ben:
[00:32:54]Right. Seriously, like just like a whole another language. So then I'm on Facebook too. It's just been hoping you can find me on any of those social media sites. So I'm trying to continue to put more resource out there for athletes and because this is my purpose. This is what I feel passionate about. It gives meaning to my life. And yes. Feel free to reach out to me if you want more information and there are lots of articles and readings on twice on a website.
Laura
[00:33:26] Awesome. I think that's so poetic. Your purpose is to give other people purpose and I think that's absolutely beautiful. Ben thank you for coming on today. We really appreciate having you.
Ben
[00:33:36] Thanks, Laura.
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In this episode, Andrew East shares about his winding journey to professional football. Growing up in Indianapolis with several brothers, Andrew remembers attending football games as a kid and being wowed by the stadium, players, and abilities of the athletes. His older brothers, Guy and JD, were especially influential in turning his interest towards playing. He credits becoming a long snapper, however, to his father who played collegiate football at Purdue in the same position. Andrew recalls that, although he was successful in his position at a Division 1 high school, he wasn’t necessarily setting his sights on playing in college and definitely never dreamed of the NFL.
His goals changed, however, when he attended a summer football intensive at Vanderbilt University. Upon connecting with some of the coaches, Andrew began to entertain the idea of continuing his career. As the months of his senior year passed, though, and no calls came in with offers, he settled on playing Division 3 football on the same team as his older brother, JD.
All of these plans quickly shifted when Andrew got a phone call late in the spring offering him a scholarship spot at Vanderbilt. Aware that the roster had been filled, he learned that space had opened up on the team due to tragic circumstances. A fellow signee, Rajaan Bennett, had been tragically murdered by his mother’s ex-boyfriend as he attempted to protect his younger brother with special needs. Andrew shares that as he took the position on the team, it was never lost on him that his opportunity to play came at the price of another young man’s life. Even when practices were brutal and the balance with school seemed impossible, he always played in honor of Rajaan. Andrew finished at Vanderbilt with a Bachelors in Engineering and also completed his MBA -- all while serving as two time captain of the team.
After graduation he joined the Kansas City Chiefs and expresses how unprepared he was for the transition to professional football. Unlike college football, there is nothing else to focus other than practice, games, and performance. Andrew shares that he began hyper-analyzing every play both on and off the field. He only ever thought about football -- reliving mistakes and obsessing over form. This tunnel vision, compounded with the pressure of playing at the professional level, led to struggles with anxiety and panic attacks. The attacks became more and more frequent until he was eventually let go from the Chiefs. He was shocked, devastated, and disappointed. Sure that this was the end of his NFL career, he wallowed for several months not knowing what he would do next.
He credits his girlfriend at the time, Olympic gold medalist gymnast Shawn Johnson-East, for helping to pull him out of his stupor. Her encouragement plus support from his family led him on a journey of discovering emotional health and balance. He began focusing on other hobbies like film making, entrepreneurial endeavors, and supporting her budding YouTube channel. As he regained his footing and became more well rounded, the NFL offers came rolling back in. Over the past four years Andrew has played on seven different NFL teams. And although hopping around is not necessarily ideal, having other areas of interest and success has made each one of those transitions easier.
Outside of football he consults in social media development and small film editing -- something you wouldn’t expect from a guy who couldn’t be found online just a few years ago. Never really interested in being in the spotlight, East has followed the lead of his wife, Shawn, who has dealt with athletic fame since she was just 14 years old. They were introduced to one another by his brother, former professional cyclist Guy East, who met Shawn at the Olympics. Andrew shares about his spontaneous engagement at a Chicago Cubs game because, “once I had the ring, I just couldn’t wait.” Now married, they approach their social media presence as an opportunity to help others, build community, and connect with people they might not otherwise. This was evident as they publicly shared about their miscarriage in 2017. Thousands of messages poured in from followers who appreciated their vulnerability and honesty about a painful subject that often leaves couples feeling isolated.
Having never fathomed playing in the NFL or running a social media business, Andrew has learned to simply be grateful. His unique journey has even led him to start his own podcast entitled ReDirected, which highlights individuals who have experienced unexpected career shifts that have been surprisingly life giving. He may not know what is next for him, but acknowledges that an openness to new opportunities and balance through all areas of his life are essential to his success both on and off the field.
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Laura: Welcome Andrew East. I'm so excited you could join us today.
Andrew:
Thank you for having me on.
Laura:
Yeah. Well, first I kind of want to set the stage a little bit. Tell us briefly about your background like how you got your start in football and how it led to where you are now.
Andrew
Yes, I was born and raised in Indianapolis Indiana and my dad played football at Purdue and he kind of inspired in us the will to play football. And I remember my oldest brother Guy was a fanatic for football and just absolutely loved getting people's autographs. We'd go to the Colts practices and do any event related to football. And so I kind of looked at what my older brother is doing. I was like, hey you know what football does seem like a pretty cool sport. And so he got into it. My second older brother JT got into it and then I naturally fell into it and so I played ever since I was in second grade. I've been playing football and I've loved it. It's been so great. I feel like I've learned so many awesome life lessons from football. And so super fortunate to just have that sport and experience in my life and it's led to so many quality relationships and experiences that I never dreamed of ever having when I was an eight-year-old starting out fast forward you know maybe in twenty-six now and it's just been an awesome adventure sport has a way of doing that for sure.
Laura
What made you fall in love with football like was it something specific or just kind of that family connection you guys had?
Andrew
So Initially, I think I again my oldest brother Guy was just all about the autographs and just idolized these players and I think initially my draw to it was kind of the shiny lights and the fame and all that portion of it. But then once you start playing and you experience the team environment you experience the everyday kind of adversity that gets thrown at you physically and mentally. I think the constant growth that I was experiencing is what really continued my passion for it even though initially it was, Hey I want to be like my older brother and I want to be somebody that little kids like my older brother would idolize.
Laura
I love that. That's great. Now you went on from high school to play in college. Was that vastly different? Or was it not too much of a change from high school to college football?
Andrew
I was not ready for college football at all. Coming from high school I took football seriously or so I thought. And then in Indiana, we played in a pretty tough conference. USA Today had our high school conference rated like second toughest in America.
So I thought that I was playing. I love football but then you show up and down south.
They have year-round football and I had never played one sports year round. I was always doing football and basketball and baseball and rugby and I love to play different sports but I've never fully devoted myself to one sport like you're forced to do in college and so that was definitely a new experience. And then the level of athleticism and strength and discipline and dedication is just completely different than it was in high school. And so it took me a little bit to adjust to that difference but once I kind of understand how the whole system worked I absolutely loved it. Because again there are so many opportunities. I feel I can prove yourself and learn really.
Laura:
Did playing around it.
Did that get old?
I mean you're used to changing up to different sports like how did you keep it from getting boring? I guess...
Andrew
So the coaches do a good job of keeping it interesting. They have a kind of different phases of competition is how our coaches structured. So in the off-season while we would still be doing football drills they would make it fun and have us compete in kind of different athletic competitions like tug of war or whatever it is and they put you on teams and you're still kind of progress toward your goal of being a good football player but they make it fun in the process. I was fortunate to have really really good coaches that had the foresight and the wisdom to not just be football football football all the time which I think proved invaluable.
Laura
That's great.
Andrew
Yeah
Laura
Well, so you didn't just play football in college you were also the team captain for two years and you're studying engineering in a little school called Vanderbilt. So how do you balance all of that?
Andrew
Not well. I'll tell you that it was definitely tough. And my first year at Vanderbilt I did not enjoy much. I thought that I was going to play college football with my older brother at Wheaton College which was like a little D3 Christian school. But actually, the story of how I ended up at Vanderbilt was kind of what inspired me to stick around. I wasn't a highly recruited player out of college. I did have opportunities to play out of high school. I had opportunities to play at Princeton and some smaller schools which would have been great. Obviously, Princeton is a great school. But football-wise I was so headstrong on playing division1 and so I was going to take any opportunity that came my way and fortunately I went down to a football camp the summer of my junior year and that summer was fully devoted to just trying to make that dream happen.
My parents were so supportive of that, my siblings were so sacrificial and like giving up their time and going on these family vacations together that would just be essentially a football trip for me. But I went down to Vanderbilt summer camp and I had a really I think good performance down there. But more importantly, I connected with one of the coaches in a deep way we like. I don't even know how the whole conversation started. But right off the bat, we were kind of talking about our faith and how that's impacted us as men and in our sport. And so I was like super encouraged I think wow Vanderbilt is going to be the school I go to and it's great because you know it seems like there are coaches around that really care for me as a human being beyond just my athletic capabilities. But I didn't hear from them for I guess it is eight months after that? And so science college signing day came and went in February no division1 offers. And I was like well you know I'll go play D3 and that'll be great because Wheaton is an awesome school and I'll get to play with my brother.
But I get a call two months after signing day super late in the process even for kids who are not playing sports like most of my peers had decided already where they're going to go to school. But I was just holding now and I got a call from the head Vanderbilt coach and offered me a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt. And I was very confused because following the news it seemed like there were no more scholarships that Vanderbilt could give. And so I asked him that “well how did this come about? I didn't think that you guys had any more to offer”. And he said, “well the highest rated recruit the venerable I've ever had his name was Rajaan Bennett. He's out of Atlanta was a running back. Awesome guy. His mother's boyfriend broke in the middle of the night and started just pulled out a gun just was shooting around the house and Rajaan jumped in front of his handicapped little brother and saved his life but took a bullet in the process and so Rajaanlost his life”.
And so that scholarship spot opened up and the coaches wanted to give it to me. And so here I was absolutely just floored because simultaneously the most tragic but wonderful thing just happened to me. Like this is my childhood dream that I've worked for and sacrificed so much for and I wanted to play Division 1 football but never that I ever think it was going to be under such tragic circumstances as you know a spot opened me up because somebody had died.
And that experience really shaped my experience at Vanderbilt as a whole. Because in a lot of ways I'm not going to say day in and day out. I was thinking about Rajaan but it was always a constant thought of I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Rajaan.And so on the toughest days were the workouts are awful or the coaches are just really riding you or your grades are struggling and you don't have the balance. I was like, wow this opportunity has been given to me because this one kid made the ultimate sacrifice like he gave his life to save his brother. And here I am kind of picking up the scraps of this wonderful human being and I benefit from it. And so it was very difficult but that was kind of the backdrop to my whole experience.
My first two years I struggled hard I just didn't go along with the coaches was really like not exceeding in the classroom. And then, ultimately it came down to me having a coach James Franklin who stepped in and changed my experience completely like just a guy that believed in me and who I was and I felt kind of self-conscious about me being a variable in the first place because of the circumstances that got me there. But he stepped in and was like, “Hey Andrew you belong here and you can thrive here”. And it wasn't until I had that voice to speak into me. As well as an awesome mentor John Stokes who is a senior on the team. I think those two people really inspired me to step up and not just be at Vanderbilt but thrive at Vanderbilt and want to make a difference.
So ultimately I walked away to the two-time captain as you said. I set the tie the record for the most game started. Of any player and I got an undergraduate degree and a masters degree from Vanderbilt all under the scholarship and I like to look back on that I'm like wow what Incredibly just a wild experience you know.
Laura
Yeah. Sounds like it started off as an immense amount of pressure turned into with the help of a coach and a good teammate turned into something absolutely amazing. That's yeah. That's crazy.
Andrew
I'm fortunate that much.
Laura
So what happened after you graduated? You said you got your masters. So then what?
Andrew
I graduate with my MBA and in 2015 I got picked up as an undrafted free agent to the Kansas City Chiefs and I never could ever dream of me going to the NFL because again I was not highly recruited high school and I was like a decent player at Vanderbilt but I was more I think kind of like the locker room guy that people enjoyed having around. So when I started here from NFL teams and all these agents were contacting me it was out of this world. I was like wow. I literally didn't even dream about this but it's happening to me. And so I spent three months with the chiefs and ended up getting released and that's been the whole entire journey in and of itself.
Laura
Well, I know you've expressed how the initial pressure of professional sports may because you didn't expect it led to struggles with anxiety. Can you tell us about that a little bit?
Andrew
Yeah. So in college, I had never struggled with the psychological side of the sport. I think it is because I had amazing teammates around me amazing coaches and I think almost like the distraction of having school to worry about. There's just so many different things that take up your mind space in college but in professional football I showed up in Kansas City and it was football all the time like I would wake up go to a facility we do practice and I go back and I'd stretch and visualize and do all these drills on my own and it got to a point where I was having these anxiety attacks because I didn't think of anything else but football. And so I was just kind of overthinking the tiniest things which put me in a really really negative headspace. And ultimately I would like to walk in and I wouldn't be able to make eye contact with any of the players or the coaches because constantly I had this fear like a shadow follow me around that you know Hey today's the day I'm going to get cut because I didn't do X Y or Z correctly and is crazy because the chiefs pick me up and they're like hey you're our guy like you we want you to be our guy for the next 10 years. And I was like sweet. Like what an awesome. Well, what an awesome position but they brought in competition just because from my position that's what's normal and but they're like this is just kind of a formality. You're our guy. And so I started overthinking the little things and then had these just demons kind of haunting me constantly. Like I really lost myself in overthinking that tiny details. Yeah, that's ultimately ended up getting me cut just because I could not handle the pressure of always being football.
Laura
I mean, how do you move past that? Look I know you've had this happen several times I think you said seven times that you’ve gotten on a team and then they've had to let you go. Like how is it always kind of feel like the same thing or has every situation been different like how do you deal with that? You just seem to handle it so incredibly well.
Andrew
Well, let me say the first time I got cut from the Chiefs I was just in tears. And so my wife Shawn and I were together at the time and it was three days off just like kind of mourning. But simultaneously this relief because I all the sudden what was dominating my world and my thoughts football was kind of gone and not by my choice. So it was like this weird. I'm glad that's over. But wow. Like what do we do now? And so I was like sitting on the couch for three months and kind of depressed and didn't really know what I was going to do professionally and I felt worthless and a lot of ways but. Fortunately, I had an awesome fiance at the time Shawn and I had gotten engaged that summer and I have an amazing family. And so my brothers were there to support me and like really kind of speak life back into me. So I think those are the biggest things that help me get back on my feet.
Laura
Yeah. So important to surround yourself with just good people that can lift you up when you need it right?
Andrew
Yeah absolutely.
Laura
Now you mentioned your now wife Shawn Johnson East and she's an Olympic gold medalist in gymnastics. So I got to ask are you guys competitive at all?
Andrew
Oh my God! It's non-stop Laura non-stop in the smallest things like cooking or darts or like pranks playing.
Laura
You guys play pranks on each other all the time.
Andrew
You know I feel like she plays where breaks on me that I do on her. Yeah, we have fun.
Laura
Okay, so you have to spill it like what is the most embarrassing prank or the best way that she's gotten you?
Andrew
I love to dance to Laura. I love to dance. I dance gladly in front of my wife. But she'll always kind of sneak some video and blasted out to the Internet. And so I like to laugh at it but in the back of my mind, I'm like, you know what? That's actually extremely very embarrassing.
Laura
It's nice. Well, I know you posted today that you were a little disappointed because she didn't know that chick fil a had waffle fries. So I'm going to have to say you need to change that because Chick fil A is very very important.
Andrew
So do you believe that? I mean this is an opportunity for growth in a marriage. You know if I've ever seen.
Laura
Definitely.
It's like you don't even know her. So ok you guys have like a massive Instagram and YouTube following you have over 300,000 followers on Instagram. She has a million and a half. You guys have kind of become this whole brand just in your marriage. What drew. Right?
I mean how has this changed your relationship or how people see you or even how you see yourself?
Andrew
I'll point to my wife. My wife Shawn is just an absolute rock star and she has been dealing with this I guess celebrity in one form or another ever since she was like 12. And so she has such a level head about the whole thing that it has helped me immensely. Because I mean I come from a super solid family and I would never like think that having Instagram followers are like you know people taking pictures with you. I find no purpose in that still but it is so easy to get seduced by that and like tempted into like oh like what I have to do to get more followers. And I don't think I've ever admitted that. But like I think just being honest about this is actually something that we need to be conscious of and we honestly don't do it for the followers. But I think it's cool that we have built the following because Shawn has been vulnerable to the world and she's kind of help to show me how to do that. I didn't have any social media before I met Shawn.
I actually created a Twitter account so that I could talk to Shawn because we were hooked up through guy my oldest brother. They met at the 2012 Olympics and his kind of put me in touch but our first contact was
through Twitter and I actually created all my social media accounts because of various social media. It kind of makes me sick to think about but like I was super anti-social media and as years have gone byIt's like there are so many things good too it was bad too. And so we just had to have conversations about it and we try to surround ourselves with friends who are level-headed about the whole thing as well and don't care about social media. But honestly, it's like it's not a huge deal for us and that's when we talk about a lot. But it's fun. I'll take that much.
Laura
Well, that's good. That's good.
I mean all these all this social media just this branding of you guys it just seems to have led to entrepreneurship and now your own podcast and it was it's just kind of a natural progression for you.
Andrew
No, not at all.
I would say natural progression. So I guess... I was... I studied engineering at Vanderbilt and my intention was to build wells in a third world country and my kind of wanted to follow my brother's steps. Obviously, you know that's the hope sports podcast my brother builds houses for impoverished families like all around the world. And so I was really again I was inspired with him and his love for football and I was inspired with him and his servant's heart. And so that's why I did civil engineering and even went to business school so I would like to figure out how to set up the whole organization around that. But then with the whole football thing happening we got cut short and getting engaged.
People like when Shawn and I got engaged. I did it in a super public manner. I didn't plan it at all but we did it at Wrigley Field. And I just got the ring the day before and I thought I was going to hang onto it for a couple months but I didn't. And so Shawn was thrown out the first pitch at Wrigley and so I proposed at Wrigley and it made like national news. You know people anybody who had that ESPN or Yahoo Sports app I got a push notification like hey Shawn Johnson was just engaged it made really feel like it was a bid
Laura
That was not planned?
Andrew
I didn't plan it at all. It just gives you a hard time.
It's like wow that's really not romantic. They didn't put any thought to what I like on the drive up to Chicago from Indianapolis or where I was coming from I like I called USA Gymnastics issues up there during the first pitch out for and then they put me in touch with the Cubs. Like this is two hours before the whole thing happened and they're like hey you know we'll make a jersey with her new last name on it and like that was as much planning as one that's still pretty good.
That's it. The Cubs fans like it but I didn't think we'd be doing a stadium proposal or any of that.
That brought a lot of attention to us. Like as far as I said a couple and then I guess there's like four weeks after that I got cut and as I said I'm just laying around on the couch just felt worthless. And so I had to just take the smallest step of progression and I had a friend who had started a YouTube channel and so I was like you know what maybe it is fun to document our wedding planning process together and then kind of put. I was really excited to start a YouTube channel. I think my wife is the coolest person out there and I think that you know the more people get to see over the better. And so we started this youtube channel and it's grown to this like social media. You know this is we're not doing consulting in it's turned into something crazy. And again I was anti-social media like less than five years ago and now I really love it and I don't think there's any better way to connect people to educate people than social media. So it was not natural but it's been phenomenal.
Laura
That's great.
Andrew
Yeah, I know.
Laura
What your podcast about?
Andrew
Called redirected and it's about people who have experienced career redirections who have started out life on one trajectory and have been redirected into another trajectory and that's been my experience with you know going from engineering to football and football now and to social media and so I've sat down with UFC fighters who start off as like air conditioner installers. One guy. Yeah. Todd was you know Series 6 and Series 7 financial advisor and dropped all that just to fitness to do like you know personal fitness training. And so it's really cool. I love having a reason to reach out to somebody that I probably otherwise wouldn't. And then subsequently have a really quality conversation about you know this redirection often occur in times of you know it's difficult these changes and so that to be able to kind of discuss those difficulties leads to like some really cool conversation. So I've loved there were six or seven episodes and it's been awesome so far.
Laura
That’s great!That's got to be very powerful for you to just have been obviously in the same shoes. I'm sure.
Andrew
Absolutely sure.
Laura
Now you and Shawn last year shared pretty openly about losing a child to miscarriage. How how did that heartbreak affect your marriage?
Andrew
Again Shawn is an absolute rock star and like she just... it was way harder I think on her. As is often the case in miscarriages you know the female has so much going on just like there's the connection to the baby that the male just like doesn't quite have and then the hormonal side of it as well. She was an absolute light through the entire situation and we decided... she really decided to share it. We had documented it all just because we thought this is going to be our first kid and we want kind of like this home video footage and then it ended up being you know this sad story of a miscarriage. But we felt she says that she wanted to share it because she really didn't know how to cope with it herself. And so she was kind of begging for people to drop wisdom on her and help her through it. And so the response from that whole video was absolutely astounding like that. The number of people that reached out and said hey you know I've never told anybody this but I went through the same thing and it's something that I've struggled with constantly. Like you know we lost our childlike 10 weeks along the pregnancy and so many people have you know have these crazy stories of losing twins seven months along. And again just having shared that story has led to so many awesome relationships and awesome conversations and I feel like it's really helped people feel comfortable and really want to seek out consolation for like that's the whole reason we did it in the first place. So Shawn was just an absolute stud to the whole thing and she should never cease to impress me.
Laura
Well, I think it's really cool that you guys were just so open to being vulnerable and sharing such a difficult experience because it's something that people don't talk about and so that had such purpose in it even though it was so heartbreaking for you guys to walk through that is just so purpose driven. Like just speaking into other people's lives where we're like you said Shawn didn't know how to deal with it. Nobody told her what to do. So when people see that like they understand what somebody else is going through and there's that connection and they don't feel so isolated and alone going through that. I think that's just huge. So I really really appreciate you guys near vulnerability and your honesty. I think that's amazing.
Andrew
Yeah well, I'd say it was from a marriage perspective it did take us probably two months to recover just because there are so many conversations that follow up on that like well why did we have a miscarriage. I guess it's something wrong with that like just kind of its really tough conversation to have. And so it took us two months to recover from that and be able to be comfortable fully again with each other which is crazy. I mean again there's only 10 weeks along and I had only known about the news that she was pregnant for like twelve hours like legitimately. She told me we were both away and she was doing press for her new TV show venture capitalists and she was in New York for The Today Show and I had gone from a trial with the Lions directly to a trial with the Giants. And so she was like Hey I need to see you. I have something to tell you. And so it was her time and she was pregnant she was you know that's in and of itself is a super emotional thing because the first time it's the first time she's pregnant so she didn't really know how to deal with all thing. So we got back together in Los Angeles like eleven thirty at night. She told me she's pregnant and I didn't get a week of sleep that night. I was like wow this is crazy. So when you wake up and you kind of like start thinking about Okay well what are we gonna name them and you know you kind of have this picture in your mind of what is going to look like and you kind of start designing his room and picking out his clothes like even from the very get-go. You just kind of get pumped about that dream. Yeah. I mean there is an initial like terror that I experience wow you get it like it is actually. But then like you get super excited about it. So she yeah like that. That is, it's just such a roller coaster and so it took us about two months to recover and we actually end up taking a kind of a little getaway to Europe together as a kind of a way to kind of bond back together after that. And that was an amazing trip and that's you know I think it just spending quality time together really helped us get back on our feet and yeah.
Laura
That's good. Now kind of switching beer gears back into football like now that you've been through so much you've kind of got this entrepreneurial thing going too but yet you're still training you're still trying out for teams like where are you with that like what are your dreams and goals and expectations now with football?
Andrew
It's so tricky Laura. It's tough. This is something that we are going through right now. I just was with the JAG wires and was released like less than three weeks ago. And I spent you know like four or five weeks with the team and was the Raiders before that. Earlier this year. So I've now signed seven contracts in four years and with five different teams which is not what I thought my NFL career would look like. But then I take a step back and it's like well I think about the whole thing. I'm like well I never even thought that I would have an NFL career. You know it was my childhood dream to play Division 1 football and I accomplished that dream in a fuller capacity than I ever could have imagined. And NFL football was never something that I really even thought was a true possibility. So I step back and I look at what my goals truly were and I think I've accomplished most of that. Most of those goals that I've set out to accomplish and so at the end of the day you know if I don't get picked up by another team I think I'll be all right with that. And I can walk away from football in peace. Now there's still as I would love to have a 15-year career if that's how it pans out. But I've been trying not to get caught up in this treadmill of goals and ambition. You know like talking to my friends who have played in the league for years. It's interesting because they're like yeah you are. I never thought I would play NFL football. And so you know it's cool that I'm here and then you play. Your goal is to just play one game and then fell and then you do that and then the next thing is well now you want to play one season and then it's well now you want to be in the Pro Bowl and now you want to like it. It's kind of it's never-ending. I view it like a treadmill. I think it's great to continue to reassess and set the bar even higher but it's a fine line. I don't. I'm still working through it. Honestly Laura I know it's difficult so I think if I walked away right now that I would be totally fine and I've made somebody really like awesome relationships with the players and the coaches and have the experience you know living in four different cities of all the NFL so it's been a really cool experience.
Laura
But you're not quite ready to walk away and you kind of that tear, right? You like that. Yeah I mean I don't think you're alone in that I think a lot of us go through that whether it's in sports or in your career beyond. I mean there's always that pull you know, do I keep going? Am I ready to hang it up? Like what's the right time? Sometimes it's not an easy cut and dry thing. I remember being jealous. I knew a lot of swimmers like in college and growing up like they would finish their collegiate career and they were done and they were so happy to hang it up and just be done. I'm like how do you know? Like I've never really felt. Like how do you just know? I wish I just do.
Andrew
Yeah I know I know.
Laura
You're not alone. I totally understand you.
Andrew
I actually had a friend call me and talked him in and he was like hey man like you know I don't know if you should be doing this anymore. It's like well thank you but I keep getting calls from teams and so clear like they kind of like still want me to do it. And so that's what I like. It's not a black or white situation. It's like well it's a little more nuanced. And at this point I kind of view it as interesting content and interesting experiences for us to share. Like me getting cut. I shared me getting cut from the Jaguars and the response from that was like really cool to hear how other people had dealt with like career changes and gone through that with your spouse. So that's kind of how you and the whole situation. But we'll see what happens here.
Laura
Something that you've been through so much I mean you've got this awesome celebrity life you're an entrepreneur you're still training for the NFL but you've experienced all these ups and downs. How does your identity not get lost in the shuffle like in all the chaos? How do you still find your purpose? Where do you find that?
Andrew
Gosh, it is tough. As I said there are so many things around each of us whether you're you know in the spotlight like you doing the social media thing like we are or your brother works in finance and there are so many things around us that are like there to tempt us and kind of pull you away from your roots. And I do think it's important to change and you know I think I've changed dramatically over the past 10 years. I think that's good. And I think at the end of the day though my core identity has remained intact and I was fortunate enough to be raised in an awesome Christian household and have brothers that they love me and support me in that. And as I said Guy’s obviously doing amazing things with his organization. And so we met my wife and I try to have daily monthly and yearly disciplines that we do that we can always point back to keep us on track and so on and on a daily basis. We always do quick evaluations and it's almost like a prayer session of like a year or like today here's where our goals are like here's our kind of vision of what this is going to look like and then monthly we have conversations as husband-wife of what we call monthly checkups of. It's just like this open and raw conversation of you know what here's something that you can work on too on this for this next month and here's something I thought you did really well this past month and I think kind of always keeping each other in check like that. And so it's not just like you're you're going through the daily motions and you kind of get lost in the chaos that's been really really helpful for us. And then yearly we do things, like make it down to two you want to build a house with my brother's organization, hope sports and that's that is just such a perspective changer for us. But yeah it's just. We spent so much time in Los Angeles where you see you know Ferraris and Lamborghinis rolling around the streets and kind of like become numb to that. And it's like this cultural I guess blindness that you have. But then you've got to go down to a place like you want to where people live in under tarps and gosh it's just like wild poverty and you have this weekend where you can share this amazing experience of building a house for this family in need and doing it with people who are similar to you has just proved absolutely invaluable for us. And so those we kind of yeah we have those daily monthly and yearly disciplines that we try to maintain that helps us keep our core identity.
Laura
I love that you guys do that on a daily monthly yearly. I love that you do it together. And I guess this is I think just for accountability and just for having somebody else speaking into your life for the positive and the negative like maybe what needs to be worked on or what needs to be changed. But also to build you up and what you're doing right. I think it is a great idea to kind of get outside of where you are to get a different perspective a perspective change because that can sometimes you know to catapult you in a completely new direction and change your perspective and maybe what you're doing. I think that's awesome really really great. Tips and tricks and tools and appreciate you sharing that help.
Andrew
Yes, I know.
Laura
Now how can we find you follow you online? Give us all your social media your YouTube channel. Let us know how to consistently be inspired by you and we just love how you share your vulnerability. You're honest and transparent. We just really appreciate it. So how can we follow you?
Andrew
Well, I don't know how much inspiration you'll find. Hopefully a few laughs and maybe some smiles along the way. But my Instagram Twitter and Facebook are all Andrew D East. My wife and I have a YouTube channel it's called Shawn Johnson official. We do that and then I'm actually starting my own channel Andrew D East this is how you can search for it. I have the podcast which I really enjoy doing. That's called the redirected and you can find that on the iTunes Store or Stitcher or wherever you find your podcast. And I think those are part of the main outlets. Yeah.
Laura
Well, Andrew, you've been great. Really appreciate you taking time to share your story with us and show us how you found purpose in your life. We appreciate that.
Andrew
Thanks for having me on.
Laura
No problem.
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